Banning queshtion for NCsoft

[Ludicrous]

So when someone is caught botting or farming (with proof) what happends, there banned right? Is it a temporary, and for how long? Do you ban the account, or the character, or the IP? Do you prema ban?

How is the EULA enforced???

The reason I'm asking is because I figure cheating would be less if penalties were higher. If you prove someone cheating and you deleted there account word would spread fast and poeple would not want to risk loosing the character and equipment. I know that every bot/farmer character is paying you money, and eventhough its not legit, its still money. Perma banning would never stop botting and farming. Doing it just might accualy make NC more money! bacause the botter/farmer would have to buy another CD key to continue.

Thanks

[Ubermage]

NCsoft does not disclose their methods of finding botters. This is because if everybody knew how they checked for botters, then they would add code to the bot to counter the check. As far as punishment goes, most botters, I believe, get perma banned. It's really at NCsoft's discresion to do as they wish with any player, botter or not, but HGMSpam will reassure you that NCSoft does not take kindly to botting of any kind.

[HGMspam]

The simple answer is permanent account closure. The account is null and void. They are welcome to buy a new box.

We do have other blocking procedures that can not be discussed here.

[Listof]

[ QUOTE ]
The simple answer is permanent account closure. The account is null and void. They are welcome to buy a new box.

[/ QUOTE ]

o_O

I heard about a guy whose main account was banned, even though he never botted on it, because it was linked through his credit card to a group of accounts that he did bot on. I would assume that he can't use the same credit card to open up another account. :p

[Twinkles]

You do realize that if they do ban you, NCSoft is doing you a big favor. Not only does it save you money but look at the time you save in real time to be spent doing worthwhile endeavors. I can tell you for a fact - Jack, I spend way too much money just to be able to play. And I am not talking ebay either. Finding a connection while driving over the road can be a hassle. But I am not complaining, this is better than watching TV. :)

L2 FTW.

[Ludicrous]

Thanks NC for being so fast and helpful :D

This is good stuff too know.

With out a doubt NC has THE best customer support on the planet.

[psym]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks NC for being so fast and helpful :D

This is good stuff too know.

With out a doubt NC has THE best customer support on the planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah they would have if they fired those low gm monkeys and putted real ppl infront of the schreen.

seriously low gms got 2 buttons on their keyboard :

"The ty for playing lineage ][ button"

"The ill send the request to HGM button"

the problem is that the HGM button is under a plastic cover and the monkeys have a problem hitting it.

[Phyrra]

[ QUOTE ]
The simple answer is permanent account closure. The account is null and void. They are welcome to buy a new box.

[/ QUOTE ]

"(i) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive."

That count as written permission? :confused: It has to be the most publically abused section of the EULA :p

[soltyspl]

[ QUOTE ]
With out a doubt NC has THE best customer support on the planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Support that talks to you with copy-pasted replies (around 6 that I know of, with one being "you got unbanned, this is the last warning...") in case you run into problems, and with one of those replies tells you, most of the time, to is not the best support in the world.

Unless you were sarcastic. :D

[Warper]

Disclaimer: I am no way questioning individual cases of bans. I just want to point out that announced procedures aren't followed by some NCSoft staff. I don't know the reason for it - be it

First of all, I've heard of countless account bans (for botting) that were unbanned with the statement like "it's last warning for you". I don't question the decision made by GMs, but it's quite not the same as you HGMspam state.

Second, it was stated that if you ever get banned you will receive the mail with explanation of it. Obviously, the system doesn't work like this. Examining countless bans that took place during last month, I've found out that noone got a message. Instead accounts were mutially deactivated (banned effectively), and people were forced to contact support to get any info about it. The funny thing is, instead of short description of actions taken to the account, people got the request to prove that accounts belong to them. Only after their valid responses they got infor that they were banned (for several reasons obviously).

Most interesting reason was "quest exploit". Some people admitted (on outside boards) that they bought adena for real money, but... It was not the reason, huh?
One of people who got perma-ban made only 2 quests in the whole character life. He was like level 16 by the time of ban. The oly "crime" he commited was the acceptance of several millions from his clan mate - a start-up summ to help him catch up their clannies. Anyway he got this weird reason (quest exploit) and after valid question "why?" he got the answer that the decision is final and he's not eligible to question it again, thus all his later correspondence will be simply ignored.

And last, but not least... The paragraph 3.i in User agreement (http://www.plaync.com/help/eula_lineage2.html) states quite the opposite to "They are welcome to buy a new box.":
[ QUOTE ]

(i) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive.


[/ QUOTE ]

[Cuj0z]

[ QUOTE ]
The simple answer is permanent account closure. The account is null and void. They are welcome to buy a new box.

We do have other blocking procedures that can not be discussed here.

[/ QUOTE ]

A little OT:

And what's about banning actions caused by human errors ?

I'v got a friend banned for usign 3rd part program, when he 'never' used such things.
Now, another friend got banned for botting when she 'never' botted. I know that.

And those 2 ban actions were made when Rust announced the last 'massban'.

1 was unbanned.
The other one is still banned because of the owner's behaviour (I know her, and it's too quite to start a discussion and fight for her unban) that she never tried to ask detailed infos about her ban.

[huxley]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The simple answer is permanent account closure. The account is null and void. They are welcome to buy a new box.

[/ QUOTE ]

o_O

I heard about a guy whose main account was banned, even though he never botted on it, because it was linked through his credit card to a group of accounts that he did bot on. I would assume that he can't use the same credit card to open up another account. :p

[/ QUOTE ]yes, this is correct because if a guy bots why not ban all his accounts associated with the botting one?

[soltyspl]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway he got this weird reason (quest
exploit) and after valid question "why?" he got the answer that the decision is final and he's not eligible to question it again, thus all his later
correspondence will be simply ignored.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, that's their message. People that continue asking "why?" or start proving something always get one.

[howll]

[ QUOTE ]
NCsoft does not disclose their methods of finding botters. This is because if everybody knew how they checked for botters, then they would add code to the bot to counter the check....

[/ QUOTE ]

Its counter - counterintelligence! :cool:

or Botting counter counter measures! :cool:

Whichever way u wanna say it.

[HGMspam]

Wheeeww... lots of extra questions. I will try to hit them all.

psym,
I guess that means I use to be a monkey. Thank god for evolution. (Oxymoron?)

Phyrra,
I said they could buy a new box I did not say they could use it. I guess it a depends if we catch them again.

soltyspl,
I saw you say something nice about the event, I was hoping it was a trend. When we are asked the same 6 questions people tend to get the same 6 answers.

Warper,
Some people do get unbanned. I usually do not mention it because it is not often. (Roughly 2-3 out of 1000) We do not want to get rid of people that may have made a mistake. Anyone that is given a last chance is closely watched.

As for the "quest exploit" you mentioned....
Buying adena can be pretty dangerous. No one really knows where the money comes from, do they? So if some one makes a lot of illegal money and the gives it away to a bunch of people there is something wrong. So when I am investigating I do not know if some one paid rubles for their adena, all I know is that they received a lot of adena for free from a bad guy. Either way, they are banned. As for the "new box" comment, please see Phyrra's answer above.

Cuj0z,
I will not say mistakes are not made. But that is why we always review cases at the customer’s request. If the evidence it too much an account will not be unbanned. My point is proven by many of the posts above mine. Some say we do not ban enough, some say we ban too much. Others ask why people are unbanned. If your friend still wants her account back have her write to support and ask.

I think I covered everybody with a question...

-spam

[RumPunch]

This implies (I think) that adena buyers are getting banned?

<Dances in joy!>

Best news in ages, way to go NCSoft!

<orders case of 140 proof, limited edition BVI rum to send to L2 GM staff>

GRINS

[Bighands]

[ QUOTE ]
This implies (I think) that adena buyers are getting banned?

<Dances in joy!>

Best news in ages, way to go NCSoft!

<orders case of 140 proof, limited edition BVI rum to send to L2 GM staff>

GRINS

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure that's what I heard also Rum... So HGM do you and your staff enjoy a fine cigar on occasion also?

[Blotter]

But whats to stop a person from buyin an 10mil adena arrow or SOE??

[HGMspam]

[ QUOTE ]
But whats to stop a person from buyin an 10mil adena arrow or SOE??

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing is stopping them from doing that but it is pretty obvious to us when that happens. I can not discuss the process because I would have to talk about how our tools work.

[Law]

Thank You HGMspam You've gave me new hope about LineAge2's support. Now this is the support I was talking about and not those AutoReply alike messages and then nothing happens.

Here Cuj0z let me tell you this none of the cheaters that got banned will tell you yes they chated and the ban was right. I've even heard people saying they didn't cheat they got banned for being AFK. I am gonna give it a Big LOL. How come i don't see i got banned for being afk?

HGMspam i am wondering the same thing as well. let's say if someone have 5 accounts but 1 of his account got banned for botting. Shouldn't you ban all his other 4 as well? Obvoiusly he is playing all his accounts on the same computers and his computers must still have cheating program installed. I can understand if after you baned all 5 his accounts then he registered another new one maybe just keep close watch on him and leave him be maybe he learn his lesson. But if he has other accounts while 1 of his account got banned then definatly should ban all his other accounts. Is NCsoft doing this or not?

[MalineII]

As far as I know, if one account under a master account is banned for botting, the others are closed as well.

[HGMspam]

Law,

Yes we ban all accounts that are found if one is "botting."

[Kriegherr]

why do you use a lineage 1 comic for your lineage 2 avatar o.o

[RustNC]

[ QUOTE ]

And those 2 ban actions were made when Rust announced the last 'massban'.


[/ QUOTE ]

Note: That was the last announced mass banning. Not the last mass banning.

[Elrohir]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

And those 2 ban actions were made when Rust announced the last 'massban'.


[/ QUOTE ]

Note: That was the last announced mass banning. Not the last mass banning.

[/ QUOTE ]
So when are you going to announce the unannounced mass bannings?? :mad:

[RustNC]

[ QUOTE ]

So when are you going to announce the unannounced mass bannings?? :mad:

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said in the vision post, I'm most likely not going to.

[HGMspam]

[ QUOTE ]
why do you use a lineage 1 comic for your lineage 2 avatar o.o

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the very first to notice that. I'm impressed.

[Wetzel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

And those 2 ban actions were made when Rust announced the last 'massban'.


[/ QUOTE ]

Note: That was the last announced mass banning. Not the last mass banning.

[/ QUOTE ]
So when are you going to announce the unannounced mass bannings?? :mad:

[/ QUOTE ]

__________________________________________________ __________
I think that was an announcement of the unannounced mass bannings.
__________________________________________________ __________

read between the lines. :)

[MissAllSunday]

since this thread talk about banning method i have a question : do u have a way to check the login and logoff time of a clan?

i explain the situation : we were peacefully killing a clan called TK on bartz while raiding in forbidden gateway, they start to hit the boss, we heal it, they flag on our healers, we kill some and suddently the whole clan diseapear in a blink. They had around 3 groups with all EE in it so we though they party recalled. We resume our raid and all of a sudden we are surrounding by all those people. That means they logged off when in combat mode (since thye were hitting the raid boss) and all at the same time and they they all logged on again at the same time. When i say the same time they all poped up on us that s impossible to do since 25 people with 25 computers can t load the game at the same speed.

I reported them of course, unfortunatly we couldn t get a video of it but we will try to get one next time.

So is that a bannable case? if not how can u justify they not used any 3rd party program to synchronize that much people (i don t talk about a "GO LOG OFF" on ventrilo or teamspeak, i speak about botting.

[Cuj0z]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And those 2 ban actions were made when Rust announced the last 'massban'.


[/ QUOTE ]

Note: That was the last announced mass banning. Not the last mass banning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have meant that one .. and all will HOPE that it will not be the last.

BTW, I'v got a friend asking me for help because he was always receiving automated answers, to his questions, from support.
So, he told me that NCSoft banned him for using 3rd part program, when he was using only Windows Media Player to listen to music. He's legit 100% - other way, I wouldn't help him.

Spam probably know what I'm saying.

Same to the other friend, but she didn't contact me, and she preferred going away by saying nothing and doing nothing (it's behaviour.. she prefer that who made this will go give excuses to her (lol), so, she gone, and never asked anything).

Here we go. My friend, who got unbanned, told me that he remember WHO got banned from his friends.
An ENTIRE party got banned, only those players that were in that party. So you say, they were botting ? No.

1 of the got unbanned, the others dunno. Another of them is who I'v described above.

[AURAGIN]

LOL,
cujoz following your lasy thread was a trip, thought i was on acid trying to follow what you were saying...phew

[Law]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I'v got a friend asking me for help because he was always receiving automated answers, to his questions, from support.
So, he told me that NCSoft banned him for using 3rd part program, when he was using only Windows Media Player to listen to music. He's legit 100% - other way, I wouldn't help him.

[/ QUOTE ]

What excetly are you talking about. Also please look at the forum rules : http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=390395&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#390395 You should ask banning questions like this in support.lineage2.com.

But let me give you a hint: And this is excetly what happened to me. I've heard from some people that saying I am sure XXXXX doesn't bot while i am just next to XXXXX watching him botting.

Why would ncsoft ban someone for using windows media player? I always plays L2 in windows mode while watching movie on Windows Media Player classic coz it's better performance than the newer one or listening to music with WMP. But how come i am not banned for using windows media player while playing L2?

Come on I think we all know that none of the botters are going to tell you they botted.

If you gonna ask anymore questions about why your freind was banned better send in a support ticket and not to ask in the forums.

[Ludicrous]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you were sarcastic. :D

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, not sarcastic... I'm not super at computers and I've had problems from games glitches to crests, to ISPs and they have always solved the problem quickly and politely. For exsample how fast was this thread responded to by a NC rep?

I guess some of the petition responces are repetative, but if you had to answer the same queshtion hundreds of times every day would you type an original message every time? hell no copy and paste my friend :D

I know NC hears alot about what they do wrong -because I add to it lol. But you are all still playing, so they must be doing something right, might as well tell um.

[Cuj0z]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL,
cujoz following your lasy thread was a trip, thought i was on acid trying to follow what you were saying...phew

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, English isn't my mother tongue :eek:

[Warper]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, not sarcastic... I'm not super at computers and I've had problems from games glitches to crests, to ISPs and they have always solved the problem quickly and politely. For exsample how fast was this thread responded to by a NC rep?

I guess some of the petition responces are repetative, but if you had to answer the same queshtion hundreds of times every day would you type an original message every time? hell no copy and paste my friend :D

I know NC hears alot about what they do wrong -because I add to it lol. But you are all still playing, so they must be doing something right, might as well tell um.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are three separate points involved in effective support function:
1) Response time
Due to the nature of support page and procedures involved NCSoft has almost best if not best response time for web site support. At least until these bannings hit the road. But we are discussing support, right?
They are doing awesome job at this point. Needless to say, it happens with the help of their support system. But who cases why - it just WORKS.

But when it comes to live responses of GMs (in game), the situation is not that rainbowlike. In fact, it's one of worst response times ever. They were better in the past. But now... last time I got stuck due to a bug... I have been waiting for 1,5 hours to get GM response. It's nearly half of my daily playtime (!).
Generally if you need GM assistance, make screenies and prepare complete descriptions of the case you will be forced to deal with it after game session is over. Sadly enough, but most responses come after like 20-30 minutes of waiting :(

2) Politeness and comprehensive answers
As for politeness of GMs, it's more than good. We have to give credit to GMs, they are polite every time they deal with you. Nevertheless, some things make you upset even if they are "polite" in their form.
One of most frustating things that happen - you get your petition/request closed even for cases when you get no answer to your question.
I had to ask about trains trice (plus like 5 times I hit the bug and my petition was not accepted to proceeding) to get an answer concerning "gray area" of the question. Two of them were handled like this: I got an answer and my petition was closed immediately without any chance for me to concretise the question.
It also happens to bot reposts. Happens all the time. You have no chance to describe the situation in details, you only get "one attempt". The petition is closed immediately - whether you have something else to say in addition to original petition text or not. I neither do understand this sort of handling, not do I agree to it. I'd like to ask GM staff to review the procedure of report behaviour handling. Most of the time people have plenty of facts to say, but it's really hard to put them all in the original petition line.

As for correct answers... First (copy-pasted one) answer will not generally cover the question you ask. Sometimes petition is closed as well :( Essentially it's a flaw of the current support system.

3) Problem solve time (delay)
Generally it takes a pair of days for problems that you submit through web support system. Sometimes it takes longer - it depends on the individual case comlpexity.
For in-game support it takes like 10 minutes after you get response. But you wait for it a bit longer...

[AURAGIN]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LOL,
cujoz following your lasy thread was a trip, thought i was on acid trying to follow what you were saying...phew

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, English isn't my mother tongue :eek:

[/ QUOTE ]


No prob, I just found it very humarous at 2am in the morning...I thought I was drunk....

[MjukOst]

[ QUOTE ]
since this thread talk about banning method i have a question : do u have a way to check the login and logoff time of a clan?

i explain the situation : we were peacefully killing a clan called TK on bartz while raiding in forbidden gateway, they start to hit the boss, we heal it, they flag on our healers, we kill some and suddently the whole clan diseapear in a blink. They had around 3 groups with all EE in it so we though they party recalled. We resume our raid and all of a sudden we are surrounding by all those people. That means they logged off when in combat mode (since thye were hitting the raid boss) and all at the same time and they they all logged on again at the same time. When i say the same time they all poped up on us that s impossible to do since 25 people with 25 computers can t load the game at the same speed.

I reported them of course, unfortunatly we couldn t get a video of it but we will try to get one next time.

So is that a bannable case? if not how can u justify they not used any 3rd party program to synchronize that much people (i don t talk about a "GO LOG OFF" on ventrilo or teamspeak, i speak about botting.

[/ QUOTE ]
i would like an answer to this one to... impossible to raid when the farmers exploit every single part of the game T_T

[ChuckHoboDUH]

[ QUOTE ]
They are welcome to buy a new box.


[/ QUOTE ]

really? friend got banned for botting in c1 and he hade to get approvel b4 he could get a new account. thats what he told me at lest .

[TarpaN]

ok iv got a queshtion
i have to 1 account and my wife as 1 account we play next to eachuther in the same room on the same internet line and we have done so from open beta. will the IP add be the same ? and if so is NCsoft baning/suspending or targeting players with the same IP address ? if so ar my acc safe ?. just a ider but iv heard of this

[huxley]

[ QUOTE ]
ok iv got a queshtion
i have to 1 account and my wife as 1 account we play next to eachuther in the same room on the same internet line and we have done so from open beta. will the IP add be the same ? and if so is NCsoft baning/suspending or targeting players with the same IP address ? if so ar my acc safe ?. just a ider but iv heard of this

[/ QUOTE ]you have nothing to worry about at all. Bannings from bottings usually come from much more criteria than the same IP address. Besides, the computers may be same IP but different mac address and computer info (they do get those stats as well) so I wouldnt worry about it.

[TarpaN]

thanks for the reply

[Wardancer]

[ QUOTE ]
But you are all still playing, so they must be doing something right, might as well tell um.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because WHOL got cancelled and DDO looks iffy.

[KariTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But you are all still playing, so they must be doing something right, might as well tell um.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because WHOL got cancelled and DDO looks iffy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still doesnt negate Ludicrous's statement.