Empower VS MagicPower VS MagicDamage VS Acumen

[DarkLordSeb79]

My OL is currently shopping for an A grade weapon and I need the highest m.atk so that my debuffs and DOTs are the most effective (more m.atk means more chances that they land). Now, if I was told that my seals always land, no matter what, past level 65 or 70, I'd go straight for a weapon with Acumen or Mana Up. But I don't think that it is the case.

I am currently looking at 3 weapons for their high m.atk and their Special Abilities :

Branch of The Mother Tree (152 m.atk) with MagicDamage or Acumen
Elemental Sword (143 m.atk) with MagicDamage or Empower
Sword of Miracles (152 m.atk) with MagicPower or Acumen

How do these SAs affect my m.atk and the land rate of my seals? Here are their definitions, but I don't know which one is the best for me.

Empower : Increases magic power.
Magic Damage : When using harmful magic on a target, it delivers additional magic damage with a fixed percentage.
Magic Power : When attacking with magic, the amount of MP used increases with a fixed percentage and magic power also increases.

[Box_of_Fox]

Empower increases your Matk (or the weapon's, I forget) for a miniscule amount. Don't get it.

Magic Damage increases the damage of your harmful spells. If a spell doesn't deal damage than this SA doesn't help. Don't get it if you plan on using seals and debuffs.

Magic Power increases damage and land rate more than Empower but you have to spend more mana per cast.
----

I used to believe the Magic Power was good but it really doesn't help that much. If you can get Empower for really really really cheap (which you can't, right? Like 11 or 12 lvl crystals needed) then go for it. Otherwise, spending all that money and time investing in the SAs you listed isn't worth it.

I suggest acumen. Truly. It may not make your debuffs land more, but at least its worth its price.

[Spudnik]

[ QUOTE ]
Empower increases your Matk (or the weapon's, I forget) for a miniscule amount. Don't get it.

Magic Damage increases the damage of your harmful spells. If a spell doesn't deal damage than this SA doesn't help. Don't get it if you plan on using seals and debuffs.

Magic Power increases damage and land rate more than Empower but you have to spend more mana per cast.
----

I used to believe the Magic Power was good but it really doesn't help that much. If you can get Empower for really really really cheap (which you can't, right? Like 11 or 12 lvl crystals needed) then go for it. Otherwise, spending all that money and time investing in the SAs you listed isn't worth it.

I suggest acumen. Truly. It may not make your debuffs land more, but at least its worth its price.

[/ QUOTE ]BZZZZZZT wrong. empower on A grade weapons is Empower 3 (which improves Matk by 30 odd percent) and on some, it is even higher.

magic damage gives a % more damage and still has a chance to fail when the spell doesnt land..

magic power increases spell cost in MP by a %, and increases the power of the attack. stacks with empower, zerk, and your own overlord form of zerk.

lets not nit pick, but wit lands your curses does it not?

[DarkLordSeb79]

[ QUOTE ]
empower on A grade weapons is Empower 3 (which improves Matk by 30 odd percent) and on some, it is even higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it mean that the buff Empower doesn't stack with the SA Empower ? Or are you simply using it as an example ?

[Spudnik]

doesnt stack afaik

[ANobody]

I thought that the Empower SA added a set amount to your base MAtk. Which made it viable for low-levels (under 52ish) but had less overall effect the higher your level.

Did its' purpose change for A-grade?

A +3 Sword of Miracles has MAtk of 161, you'd need a +10 or +11 homunkulus to beat that. I'm nor sure about B-grade, I suppose the closest would be a +7 or +8 SOES. Trouble is, a staff means you can't carry a shield and an OL is built for mass fights - meaning a shield gives you less chance to be interrupted and greater overall defence.

Personally I'd suggest you go for Acumen. Even if a debuff/DoT doesn't land, your skills will refresh quicker so you can fire them again quicker.

[Spudnik]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that the Empower SA added a set amount to your base MAtk. Which made it viable for low-levels (under 52ish) but had less overall effect the higher your level.

Did its' purpose change for A-grade?

A +3 Sword of Miracles has MAtk of 161, you'd need a +10 or +11 homunkulus to beat that. I'm nor sure about B-grade, I suppose the closest would be a +7 or +8 SOES. Trouble is, a staff means you can't carry a shield and an OL is built for mass fights - meaning a shield gives you less chance to be interrupted and greater overall defence.

Personally I'd suggest you go for Acumen. Even if a debuff/DoT doesn't land, your skills will refresh quicker so you can fire them again quicker.

[/ QUOTE ]
empower is a % addition to matk. even as an SA.

+3 Sword of miracles VS +3 elemental sword:
SOM has Acumen SA, ES has Empower SA...

at +3 161 matk base VS ES with Empower is 152 matk at +3. grab a Acumen3 potion and youve got yourself a nice nukefest.

so even though youll cast fast with a SOM or Homu, go for Empower and grab a potion later.

corollary: u can get Acumen SA and get a Buff from SE later :)

[ANobody]

Hmm looks like I missed some information about A-grade. Do you have a link to it?

I'll never give up my SoM +Acumen though =)


EDIT: on second thoughts, it seems that Empower wouldn't be a sensible SA for an OverLord. Debuffs and DoTs have a set damage/time (as far as I know) and while Empower would ensure that they almost aways land, it would only really help with Drains.

From this it seems that Empower SA is more suited to nukers?


EDIT 2: thanks for the link Spudnik =)

[Spudnik]

http://lineage2.stratics.com/content/library/sas/

thats the only one i go by.

[DarkLordSeb79]

Since I'm a primary target on castle siege, I usually have time to do about 5 seals before getting noticed and ganked by EVERYBODY. So I'd rather make sure that they all land.

I know for a fact (been discussed, tested and proven before) that m.atk does not increase the damage output of DOTs, but it increases A LOT it's chances to land (to all other seals and debuffs too). So maybe this combo would be the best :

Elemental Sword with Magic Power SA
Add a SE's Empower buff, my own alliance Acumen buff and I get all the m.atk and cast speed bonuses discussed.

My only concern is that I don't know if the m.atk increase of the Magic Power SA is worth the added MP consumption. I didn't see this point covered anywhere else in the forums, so I think it's a good point to look at for any spell user in this game.

[MalineII]

Not all the information there is correct (I need to compile a list ...).

Unless the in game description and any and all experiences I've heard of are wrong, empower adds a small, insignificant number of MAtk after buffs (same part of the formula as masteries).

[Varaya]

Well, I know for a fact that the empower SA adds a fixed number to the overall matk (after buffs) on C grade weapons (sword of whispering death). As doess the magic power SA. I have not used an A grade weapon with empower SA or magic power SA yet myself, but the description looks the same (except that the numbers are bigger). But I do not see why the SA should act differently on A grade than on C grade. Would be nice to see screenshots of the stats of somebody using an A grade weapon with these SAs.

[MalineII]

But who has the money to waste on such an SA in A Grade? >_>

[DarkLordSeb79]

Money isn't an issue when you have good, strong clan/alliance that is nearly auto-sufficient. Meaning that if you need something, we go hunt for it. Even raid bosses.

[MalineII]

"If you need something" being the operative - the empower/magic power SAs are pretty worthless (unless you find a melee who casts a lot using them) on a whole.

[ANobody]

See that's what I thought, as MalineII and Varaya said - Empower SA adds a fixed amount to MAtk. That's why I argued against it being a viable A-grade SA, since by the time you reach A-grade you don't need that small addition. You'd be better off with Acumen and hitting slightly less hard but much more (a couple of quick drains would probably keep you alive quicker). You simply need Emp3 from a clan SE and you'll reach what the SA would give you.

BTW SAs do stack (Focus and Acumen come to mind as easy examples).

For an OL with low WIT (15) compared to Humans and Elves (19+) you need all the cast speed you can get. Sure a robe set will help that, but if (as you say) you need to get your seals in quick, go for the Acumen SA. The higher MAtk from those weapons (BoMT, SoM) can only help.

[MalineII]

What the SA gives is insignificant compared to buffs.

[DarkLordSeb79]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW SAs do stack (Focus and Acumen come to mind as easy examples).

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I thought I already covered that before, but here it is again, because I am confused (as ever, lol).

Equipped with an A-grade weapon without SA and buffed with Empower 3 by a SE, would I get higher m.atk equipped with the same weapon WITH Empower SA ?

[ANobody]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW SAs do stack (Focus and Acumen come to mind as easy examples).

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I thought I already covered that before, but here it is again, because I am confused (as ever, lol).

Do Special Abilities and similar buffs stack and add up ?
i.e. : If I equip an A-grade weapon with Empower SA and get buffed with Empower by a SE, do I get higher m.atk because of SE's buff ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. But as MalineII stated, Empower SA adds less than 100 to MAtk (pretty sure it's around 50ish).

[DarkLordSeb79]

Ok now. So, in review.

Empower gives little bonus (+50~100) in m.atk.
Magic Power is the same as Empower, except your MP consumption increases (so between the two, go for Empower).
Magic Damage adds damage to attacking spells, not good for debuffs (I don't know which between Empower and Magic Damage is best for a nuker though).
Acumen gives a big boost (+15%) in casting speed.

All SAs can add up and stack with buffs, even similar ones like Acumen SA and Acumen buff.

So thanks to everybody's insights, for about any and every mage classes, the best SA would be Acumen.
Unless you need the maximum m.atk possible in the game for debuffs to land like OL seals, Sleep Cloud, Hex or Poison, then go for Empower, the little extra m.atk could mean the difference against a lvl 75 char with top A-grade jewels, or a raid boss.

[Varaya]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok now. So, in review.

Empower gives little bonus (+50~100) in m.atk.
Magic Power is the same as Empower, except your MP consumption increases (so between the two, go for Empower).
Magic Damage adds damage to attacking spells, not good for debuffs (I don't know which between Empower and Magic Damage is best for a nuker though).
Acumen gives a big boost (+15%) in casting speed.

All SAs can add up and stack with buffs, even similar ones like Acumen SA and Acumen buff.

So thanks to everybody's insights, for about any and every mage classes, the best SA would be Acumen.
Unless you need the maximum m.atk possible in the game for debuffs to land like OL seals, Sleep Cloud, Hex or Poison, then go for Empower, the little extra m.atk could mean the difference against a lvl 75 char with top A-grade jewels, or a raid boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Magic Power gives a higher boost in matk (for C grade weapons - where I know the numbers - empower SA gives 24matk extra, magic power gives 99 matk extra). Magic Power is actually not a bad choice for C grade when you solo a lot and do not have access to empower buff all the time, because at that point in your mages life, matk typically is around 400-500 unbuffed and +99 matk is significant. Also, +15% mp use does not hurt THAT much when it helps finishing a mob in one nuke less. In A grade, magic power SA is *I think* at around +150 matk and empower SA at +50 matk. That is not much, considering that at that point you usually DO have access to empower buff (clan hall, dual box, groups, etc.) and total matk buffed is at around 1500-2500 depending on class, level and equipment. Empower and Magic Power do indeed stack with other buffs, but they are added after everything else has been calculated, so the SAs do not benefit from other buffs like empower and zerk which give a % bonus to matk. Some thought that the bonus would be added to the weapon's matk (i.e. to the weapon itself), but that is dead wrong.

[Grinin]

[ QUOTE ]

empower is a % addition to matk. even as an SA.

+3 Sword of miracles VS +3 elemental sword:
SOM has Acumen SA, ES has Empower SA...

at +3 161 matk base VS ES with Empower is 152 matk at +3. grab a Acumen3 potion and youve got yourself a nice nukefest.

so even though youll cast fast with a SOM or Homu, go for Empower and grab a potion later.


[/ QUOTE ]

negative. it's not the same at all, but rather a fixed amount, added to your(not the weapon's) m attk.

as well as with magic power sa, is a fixed amount added to your (not the weapon's)m attk.

just got magic power sa on my elemental sword. i'm a little disapointed that it stacks in this particular way. it's not viable for hunting, and while slower than an accumen sa'd weapon, has an extra punch for pvp.

[Grinin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok now. So, in review.

Empower gives little bonus (+50~100) in m.atk.
Magic Power is the same as Empower, except your MP consumption increases (so between the two, go for Empower).
Magic Damage adds damage to attacking spells, not good for debuffs (I don't know which between Empower and Magic Damage is best for a nuker though).
Acumen gives a big boost (+15%) in casting speed.

All SAs can add up and stack with buffs, even similar ones like Acumen SA and Acumen buff.

So thanks to everybody's insights, for about any and every mage classes, the best SA would be Acumen.
Unless you need the maximum m.atk possible in the game for debuffs to land like OL seals, Sleep Cloud, Hex or Poison, then go for Empower, the little extra m.atk could mean the difference against a lvl 75 char with top A-grade jewels, or a raid boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Magic Power gives a higher boost in matk (for C grade weapons - where I know the numbers - empower SA gives 24matk extra, magic power gives 99 matk extra). Magic Power is actually not a bad choice for C grade when you solo a lot and do not have access to empower buff all the time, because at that point in your mages life, matk typically is around 400-500 unbuffed and +99 matk is significant. Also, +15% mp use does not hurt THAT much when it helps finishing a mob in one nuke less. In A grade, magic power SA is *I think* at around +150 matk and empower SA at +50 matk. That is not much, considering that at that point you usually DO have access to empower buff (clan hall, dual box, groups, etc.) and total matk buffed is at around 1500-2500 depending on class, level and equipment. Empower and Magic Power do indeed stack with other buffs, but they are added after everything else has been calculated, so the SAs do not benefit from other buffs like empower and zerk which give a % bonus to matk. Some thought that the bonus would be added to the weapon's matk (i.e. to the weapon itself), but that is dead wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

magic power sa for a grade weapons is +154 m attk(might be off by a couple points) at a cost of +15% mana per cast.

empower sa is +99 to m attk.

everything else is spot on. it seems to stack after buffs, or wether or not this is the case, is the m attk of the chrachter, not the weapon. which is lame and makes it an unviable alternative to accumen.

[AnotherSorc]

Hmmm, interesting question. Until now, I totally overlooked that SA:

Magic Power
When using harmful magic on a target, it delivers additional magic damage with a fixed percentage

Does anyone know how much additional damages it delivers, and at what percentage??

[Yuichiro]

Deleted *mt*

[DarkLordSeb79]

u mistake the description with Magic Damage

[Varaya]

[ QUOTE ]
magic power sa for a grade weapons is +154 m attk(might be off by a couple points) at a cost of +15% mana per cast.

empower sa is +99 to m attk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it is not. This is an elemental sword with empower: empower on elemental sword gives +30 matk... (http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/7365/empower4ng.jpg)

[Lersondaya]

Good to know, good info. Sounds like if one wants to do more damage rather than speed they should go magic damage on Elemental Sword?

[AnotherSorc]

[ QUOTE ]
u mistake the description with Magic Damage

[/ QUOTE ]

OH, you are right, my bad:
So here's the correct question now:

Magic Damage
When using harmful magic on a target, it delivers additional magic damage with a fixed percentage

Does anyone know details about that SA? How much damage more, how often (percentage)??

[MalineII]

The damage is a 'power' rating (I believe it's 8 on the elemental sword) that may happen at random when you use aggressive magic (13% on eleSword if I recall correctly).

The good thing is that it is obviously affected by your MAtk, and possibly by shot use.

The bad things are that it's not very much, not reliable and thus useless in PvE, and that it can probably trigger on sleep, resulting in sticky situations.

[PameanWraith]

Sorc here. I am often doing more than just nuking. Sleep cloud, slow and decay come to mind... As such, with an elemental sword, I have 3 SA choices:
Paralize: (something like 4%, guaranteed to land on the last nuke of a mob I've already wittled down once every 2 weeks. i'll pass).
Magic Damage: adds damage on offensive spells without the extra mana cost (which is nice compared to the mana drain my SoWD+MP had). Nice if I'm Nuking all day (which I often do).
Empower: Less actual added damage HOWEVER my Mattack increases which means that my non-nukes will have an increased chance to land AND my damage will increase (granted, not as high as it would with MD).

As a utility player, EMP would be the choice for me. Now if I could just get invited to a raid to level my crystal...

[MalineII]

If you're a sleeper using Magic Damage, you're shooting yourself in the knee.

[Varaya]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorc here. I am often doing more than just nuking. Sleep cloud, slow and decay come to mind... As such, with an elemental sword, I have 3 SA choices:
Paralize: (something like 4%, guaranteed to land on the last nuke of a mob I've already wittled down once every 2 weeks. i'll pass).
Magic Damage: adds damage on offensive spells without the extra mana cost (which is nice compared to the mana drain my SoWD+MP had). Nice if I'm Nuking all day (which I often do).
Empower: Less actual added damage HOWEVER my Mattack increases which means that my non-nukes will have an increased chance to land AND my damage will increase (granted, not as high as it would with MD).

As a utility player, EMP would be the choice for me. Now if I could just get invited to a raid to level my crystal...

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, the Elemental Sword is just an A grade weapon with very bad SAs. You'd be better off with a Dasparion's Staff with Acumen.

Just as an example: the formula for magic attack damage is sqrt(matk/mdef)*9.1*power

So, let's say you have 1400 matk buffed with emp3 and zerk. Your enemy has 800 mdef. Your nuke has power 102 (lvl 70 skillset prominence) (all just an example, you can calculate it through with your own stats). So you do sqrt(1400/800)*9.1*102 damage, and that is 1227 damage. Now you put empower SA on the weapon (plus 30 matk), and the damage increases to sqrt(1430/800)*9.1*102, which is 1240 damage. A whopping 13 points of damage increase!

Do you really want to level a stage 11 soul crystal and pay millions of adena to put the SA on the weapon for that increase in damage?

[Serry_Raine]

Magic Power on my Sword of Whispering Death, was 99 matk added (fixed) on top of your matk in your stats, this was applied AFTER buffs or no buffs. So if you unbuffed matk was 700 with a non-sa weapon (of same matk) it would be 799 with a Magic Power SOWD. Now if you had a buffed matk of 1200 with a non-sa weapon of same matk, it would be 1299 with a Magic Power SoWD. The 15% more mp usage at lower levels doesnt seem to be too bothersome but when I started getting into the mid 50's the lower matk with more hits needed, really starting making it difficult to maintain MP. I play a Spellhowler as a side note. In the end, as a nuker you should probably play with an acumen weapon as the little bit of matk bonus doesnt do alot. As an example a weapon with 108 matk does around 50 less damage than a weapon with 131 matk. Tested on NPC with my Spellhowler. Now 50 damage per shot isnt a huge difference in terms of doing damage. And if you plan to pvp at all definately go with an acumen weapon, because in more cases or not its who can get their debuff/sleep off first. ^_^

[PameanWraith]

Ok, I'll pretend that all that math didn't
a) hurt
b) scare me
c) fly right over my head

Sure doesn't seem like it's worth the adena applying an SA (I have level 10 crystals we've leveled ourselves, just need to get in a raid grrrrr).

Plus, maybe one day I'll get a SoM.

[Lersondaya]

What color and stage will be needed for acumen on a valhalla? And what are the other 2 SAs being added to valhalla?

[DarkLordSeb79]

In relation to A grade weapons, they all have the mention :

"Increased damage in PvP combat"

How much damage is increased in P.atk and M.atk?
Does it affect land rates of debuffs?