How to Party Play

[Alagondar]

Since the beggining of this game i've noticed party play
has become almost extinct.
There are a couple of reasons,
I think the most obvious one is at higher levels, most people don't know how to play their class (I wonder why..)
I don't know if it's just me but is there like only ONE or TWO good tanks in the higher levels or what.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone but i suggest that everyone inputs here on this thread on how exactly to play their current class, the best way to play it, any tricks and special skills that are ignored throught the very crappy players guide on this page (very vauge) (spelling)

I myself have played a tank class (paladin)
And a nuker class (SPS)
I won't say anything about the other classes, because clearly i wouldent know what i am talking about, i'm hopeing other TH's ..... prophets..... hawkeyes... etc will come and share with us, the best way to play their class so we can party again and get good exp while we're at it.

IN HOPES THIS WILL INSPIRE MORE PARTY PLAY
Ok so here goes...
For All tanks -----
Paladin class ~~~~~

STANDARD TANKING

A paladin class is the most defensive tank in the game, usually all he does is run at the mobs and hate and tries to keep hate, although it's not as easy as it sounds
If you are a tank your MAIN SKILL IS HATE
Not your shield stun... not your sword swinging..
Hate the mob once and swing at it if it starts hitting your mage hate it again... if you lose hate in less then 7 seconds you should think about partying at a lower area, or the damage dealers should reduce the SS useage.
Also when you are aggroing mobs, please do everyone in your party a favor and GET ONE MOB AT A TIME,
DO NOT CHARGE IN AND TANK EVERY MOB IN THE ROOM.
bringing 1 mob at a time makes it easier on your healer for obvious reasons.
When it comes to multiple aggro mobs that are close together, you can run close to the one that is the furthest away from the cluster, and the moment you get it's aggro, run away a bit from the cluster, and then hate it, do not hate it for you will draw all the aggro (assuming they are social).
Hateing archer type mobs is a pain, you usually have to hate them twice (for you will likely not get many melle attacks off)
and then run back, so the archer runs to your dd's, giving your healer time to root it so it doesn't run back into the room giving you additional aggro.

When fighting group mobs KNOW THIS:
THE LEADERS AGGRO DEPENDS ON THE COHORTS AGGRO
THE COHORTS AGGRO DEPENDS ON THE LEADERS AGGRO

This meaning, if i hate the cohort, the leader and all will come after me, but truly the leader will be ****** at you,
If someone decides to hit the leader, the cohorts will get ****** at him, so therefore group mobs should be AURA HATED, that way they will be ALL ****** at you, this is what you want.

A standard party should have a MA (main assist) which is NOT THE TANK, the tank has to switch targets to get aggro from other mobs sometimes, meaning, the dd's would switch targets with him ( if the dd spams assist, they often do), so the best way would be to get a DD to be the MA. THIS PEARSON SHOULD BE AT THE BOTTOM ON THE PARTY LIST FOR MA PURPOSES, FOR HE DOES NOT HAVE TO SWITCH TARGETS TO HATE.

These are just the basic rules to tanking,
A paladin should ALWAYS be the tank if you are fighting undead mobs, because of passive P def bonuses against undead.
A paladin should use sacrafice on party memebers that are in great danger, do not use sacrafice if the member lost 1/2 his hp, use it when he is clearly about to bite the dust. ( 5 mobs on him, he's getting no heals). Also just sacraficing won't do the job, HATE THE MOBS OFF YOUR DD's PLZ K THX.

A paladin has heal skills, which take up to much mana and time to cast, so avoid casting these, rather depend on VR to regain lost HP.

RAID BOSS TANKING

A tank is a must for raid boss tanking, and the rules change.
Since a raid boss fight lasts way longer then a normal mob, you will HAVE TO HATE THE TARGET DOZENS EVEN MAYBE 50 TIMES IN THE COURSE OF THE BATTLE.
If the raid boss has co-horts, YOU WILL HAVE TO SPAM AURA HATE UNTILL THE CO-HORTS ARE DEAD.
Every raid boss who has co-horts should lose the co-horts first, always kill the co-horts in this order:
HEALER
ARCHERS
MELLE

on top of that Raid bosses with co-horts are MUCH EASIER DEFEATED WITH ULTIMATE DEFENSE USED RIGHT AT THE BEGGINING.
this meaning you hit UD and THEN AURA HATE THE ENTIRE BOSS and minions.

Just remember the key thing. KEEP THE HATE ON you useing aura hate, and hate skills, not your weapon and shield stun.

it's prefered to have a SWS in your party for it will increase P DEF of the main tank, further a tank should not stand still when fighting a raid boss, he should hate and KITE the boss around with SHIELD AEGIS STANCE ON SO HE CAN BLOCK FROM BEHIND.


AOE TANKING

When in an aoe party, all the tank usually has to do is sit there, wait for the runner to bring the mobs, and then he has TO HATE THE MOB LEADERS.
Hateing the mob leaders gives you aggro of all their co-horts, once they are all on you you should spam hate aura at least two times, maybe three if there is any stragglers.
Your healer should heal you when you hate, and you should have a AOE sleeper to interrupt mob attacks.
DO NOT FORGET UD, ud has saved many a parties especially aoe parties, use it if you're in doubt, it will be back in 20 minutes.

THE TANK AND PVP

Many people think the tank does not have a place in pvp, this is often true, BUT if you're smart you can do much more then anyone else can.

A tank flags first.
A Paladin has his sacrafice READY AT ALL TIMES FOR A QUICK SAVE.
A tank HAS BLESSED SPIRITSHOTS so their skills hit harder and faster ( to many times i've seen da's drain w/o sps, and SK's use LS without sps).
A tank remembers to use UD ~ONLY~ when he is about to die himself
A tank shoulds shield stun a weak CON opponet AND LEAVE HIM BE, DO NOT BREAK THE STUN.

Use all your specials on the weak dd's, although the paladin lacks this, he can always just stun, and be what he does best... tank.

------------------------------------
There if i've missed anything just post and i'll fix,
or add something yourself.
There is probably a lot more i've forgotten

[Targic]

SR PVE

shoot Arrows

SR PVP

Shoot arrows

SR raid boss

Shoot arrows


sorry cant go in details, I gotta leave for work lol

[Alagondar]

I know it's probably not much work for an SR hell i don't know i've never played, but tell us what we shouldent do in a pty... how to train people, etc,
For example i know a SR is not suppose to use MP use skills in PVE
and i know a SR always starts of pvp with a stun shot.
think harder
><

[Hutch]

You seem to have forgotten about TKs in that post. They're at least a contender for the most defensive tank.. and they have undead pdef passives. Poor TKs :(

I play a spellsinger, and a TK some of the time.. but I find that its mostly people not knowing how to play AT ALL rather than not knowing their class...

For instance, people not stading behind the tank and aggroing half the room.
People not assisting the tank.
People pulling their own mobs.
CDLers dropping their HP too low when the tank is low on mp.
Not stading close to the tank and aggroing stagglers
Using aoe attacks when theres a sleeper/aoe sleeper in the group
Pulling mobs when the healer is low on mp.

Just the usual stuff. Its funny tho... there are some players you party with, usually in your own clan/alliance, that seem to be on the same page. Ive been in deep lair partys with only 5 members before.. and gotten down there reasonably easily. But had trouble with larger groups due to idiocy.

For a spellsinger anyways, I usually find myself the sleeper in the party. I make sure I always have mp for sleep, and nukes come second.. depending on the party of course.
I always assist the tank in any party.. or the main targetter. And always watch spawns.
Oh.. and ffs dont spam surrenders all the time. If theres multiple nukers in your party, work out who gets to surrender and who doesnt. Its soooo annoying when you surrender a mob and then some other nuker re-surrenders it.

[Anagaton]

Another thing is when healers go AFK with out telling any1 and here comes the tank with mobs(specially AOE party).Most of us understand R/L comes first but PLZ let the party know your going AFK before sending the tank out.

I have been in parties with the ppl of BnK and I like the way they do things.SD and Elishka give a detail explanation of what is about to happen.Second thing they do is a practice run and once every1 is on the same page,they go for bigger groups.

Plz if you have any questions dont be afraid to ask them.Remember theres no such thing as a stupid question.I know for sure theres some1 in your party that has an idea for you.

PS Plz forgive my spelling but english is not my native language.

[Dragothien_]

Hawkeye

Note : *not a perfect genius on this, as I've only leveled him up to 43, but i get the general gist of it, and a few fine points*

As the previous poster said, you will be shooting arrows like its going out of style. Until you hit 40 and switch to hawkeye, it is best to use a dagger to level, as MP usage will be way too high and you can't get Cheap Shot on D grade bows.

I have minimal party experience, mostly just duo's and 3 man grps at Cruma, but from what i gather, the archers role is straggler pickup, DD and crowd control (within reason, i'd suggest using a stunshot if you have a mob streaking toward your healer or mage, your mp < their mp imo).

During a RAID.

From what i can surmise, Archers are formed into party's for minion patrol and occasional DD on main boss. You run around with silly buffs, and destroy all the minions so your tank/healer/mages dont have to worry about anything but the main boss. Pretty simple and straightforward, yes very effective.

As for PVP, this is where the hawkeye comes into power, especially at sieges. The hawkeyes stats are set up to where stationary firing and maneuvering is rewarded. High Con/Above Average Dex/Above Average Str. PR and SR are nice, but because of your high con, you can sacrifice some of it with tattoos to make your stats even better than your elven counterparts, and still have more hp. I've been to one siege on Hindemith (I was level 23 yay!:P), and it was the most awesome experience i've had in the game, and the main reason i play.

The one real downside to the Hawkeye is his speed. Unless you take a few dex tattoo and really crank it up (not advisable), you WILL be the slowest archer in the game. This is why your character really shines in the siege grounds. 80-90% of the action is fixed point, open field fighting. What the Hawkeye lacks in footspeed, he MORE than makes up for in pure raw dmg/accuracy.

So far during pvp, i've seen the following to work best for me.
Stun Shot > Double Shot > Normal Shot with SS > repeat.

So to summarize leveling wise :
-dont use bow till 40

-dont use weapon powers in PVE, unless youa re about to level and have a full mp bar

-If you can't afford a bow with cheap shot at 40, look into getting a dagger to xp with while your mana is down. last thing you need is to be oom while your party is in the middle of a huge pull (unfortunately this happens as the original poster explained). The dagger also helps solo play so you dont have to sit to regain mana, but you can be gaining xp while you regen (at a slightly slower rate).

-Pre 40's try to use accuracy buff instead of dagger skills. You wont lose any MP with running JUST accuracy, and you can save your dagger skills for "oh [censored]" moments.

-Post 40, with a bow i've found killing mobs white or green are FAR better for mp conservation than going for the Red, light red and yellow variety. Try to keep each mob kill to 4 hits or less, preferably less (1-3 is optimal). This will keep your MP in check and ensure you dont have to sit before buffs where off (if you have any).

-Buffs make your xp bar happy, I CANT EXPRESS THIS ENOUGH. As a dagger user pre 40 and a bow user post 40, you benefit extremely from focus, DW, btb, bts, VR (dagger only), guidance, shield, might, Wind Walk (best spell ever for dagger and bow imo) etc etc.

-When in a party, try to bring some buff potions, i.e. Greater haste, Greater Attk spd so that your Prophet doesn't have to waste that mana on you. And really, unless you have a clan hall(free buffs yay), you dont need every buff imaginable.

- LEARN WHICH MOBS ARE AGRO IN THE AREA YOU ARE HUNTING IN. I can not stress this enough. Not only will you not get your party killed by attacking a non agro mob when you just agro'd another, you will level quicker because you wont have huge pulls and long downtime. This goes for ALL classes really, but archers tend to be put into the "go pull your ranged" category.



As I said, this is just a small guide from my perspective on leveling one up to 43 so far and attending one siege, and pvping on the occasion. If you are a higher level Hawkeye and have more to add, please feel free, and critiquing is always welcome. I'm sure i've missed a few things, cause i have the feeling i've forgotten something or another.

[Dragothien_]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing is when healers go AFK with out telling any1 and here comes the tank with mobs(specially AOE party).Most of us understand R/L comes first but PLZ let the party know your going AFK before sending the tank out.

I have been in parties with the ppl of BnK and I like the way they do things.SD and Elishka give a detail explanation of what is about to happen.Second thing they do is a practice run and once every1 is on the same page,they go for bigger groups.

Plz if you have any questions dont be afraid to ask them.Remember theres no such thing as a stupid question.I know for sure theres some1 in your party that has an idea for you.

PS Plz forgive my spelling but english is not my native language.

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty good job spelling imo :)

[Sovrath]

[ QUOTE ]

For instance, people not stading behind the tank and aggroing half the room.
People not assisting the tank.
People pulling their own mobs.
CDLers dropping their HP too low when the tank is low on mp.
Not stading close to the tank and aggroing stagglers
Using aoe attacks when theres a sleeper/aoe sleeper in the group
Pulling mobs when the healer is low on mp.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. These are some of the reason's I never party. I've been in a few truly excellent parties (meaning large parties, not duo or trio) and it is always a surprise when I realize that people know what they are doing.

I would love to give my 2 cents on Spellhowlers but I think I will leave that to others.

However... here are the OTHER reason's I don't party.

Be prompt. If the party is meeting in 10 minutes then meet in 10 minutes.

Bring what you need to survive, soe's, healing potions etc.

Do not go afk until you have informed the party that you are going afk. Sure.. things such as "my stove caught on fire" or "the baby is hanging out of the crib" need no explanation.

But when I hear "oh, I just went to get a coke". Screw that! :mad:

If the party is relying on your mana make sure you announce that you are low. If you are a tank or are pulling make sure you look at mage's/healer's mana.

If you can only party for 15 minutes then maybe you should bring that up. If you are kos for half the server, bring that up too.

One of the worst parties I've ever been in was one where it took forever to get together; when we were traveling to Devastated castle, one of the players kept going afk for no known reason. Then,... when we got there the player decided that the xp wasn't good and was gong to head to TOI and see if there was a TOI party they could get into.

Be clear, prompt, communicate, be respectful of your party member's time. :)

[Anagaton]

Well said Sov

[oXo]

Sorceror (ftw)
PVE
Sorceror's are wild cards. You can play all speed, all damage, or a mix of the 2. Standard tatoos that work well for pvp and pve are the: +4Wit -4Men +4Int -4Men +4Con -4Str
[ Note, you lose a considereable ammount of mp tho, so maybe not add a +4Wit if you dont plan to pvp ]
The +4 wit is very nice for casting speed, the int adds a couple hundred damage, and the Con is very useful at higher levels, esp for resisting stun, or carrying more SPS.

All Damage
Rich or Poor, concentrate on your armor. The best armor I've seen that's affordable, is Demon Set. With a demon set , compared to a casting speed set, its the difference between 3 hitting to 2 hitting some mobs. If you can afford Nightmare, more power to ya. ++ mp regen bonus. This is the best pve setup. I reccomend a weapon with matk that goes along with your level. ie: B grade you = SOES type matk, etc. anything you can afford for higher matk is even better. For a weap style, I would still reccomend Acumen type weapon, this extra speed saves you in tight spots.
*In this damage style, you will concentrate on mobs you can 2 hit, for MP and $ efficiency.

Casting Mage -pvp
Sorcerors can switch it up, and go speed based. Simply get your appropriate grade armor, with casting speed bonus. (Avadon, Dark Crystal, etc) Also, an Acumen weapon is a must (Homu, Valhala, Sword of Miracles). Using this method, you are always prepared for pvp. Even in pve, having this speed is helpful. In a spot with a large spawn and fast rate, I would pull 3-5 mobs at a time, and aoe them with Blazing Circles by the time they got to me. Mp efficient, and $ effective.

Raids
You are a DD, plain and simple. If you are high level, or have a recharger, put on your casting clothes, because you will output more damage than if you were in Demon due to the casting speed vs damage done in a raid situation.

PvP - oh noes!
PvP. You have almost the damage of a SH, and almost the speed of a Sps -equally equipped.

For any non ranged class attacking you: (assuming everyone flags)
SLOW - Slow them, it lands almost everytime, and gives you time to run. Once you get far enough away, go for a cancel, then slow them again, and attempt sleep. If you sleep, fair chance you'll win. Then Surrender to Fire if you have time, and use your nuke (Prominence) repeatedly. Only resort to flare if you are dying.

Vs SpS:
hard call. if you can cancel and sleep, you have a good chance. if you can slow them and stay away from flare, you have a fair chance. try to stay away, and interrupt their cancel, and stay away from their flare.

vs Sh: get up close and flare them! you have a good chance to interrupt them. watch out for silence.

vs archers: +CON helps resist stun, but fully buffed archers are made to kill mages. go for a cancel. pray. sleep, if you succeed. get close, surrender , nuke, flare . gl

if you have any questions pm me on boards - g2g class

GL

[Sovrath]

Good Points oXo. However... due to C4 is flaring the SH still a viable option and did they make it so that you can't "reslow" someone until it wears off? As far as Aura Flare you are very correct there... (provided the C4 change does not apply)

oh.. thx Anagaton

:D

[CBAXX]

[ QUOTE ]
Hawkeye

Note : *not a perfect genius on this, as I've only leveled him up to 43, but i get the general gist of it, and a few fine points*

As the previous poster said, you will be shooting arrows like its going out of style. Until you hit 40 and switch to hawkeye, it is best to use a dagger to level, as MP usage will be way too high and you can't get Cheap Shot on D grade bows.

I have minimal party experience, mostly just duo's and 3 man grps at Cruma, but from what i gather, the archers role is straggler pickup, DD and crowd control (within reason, i'd suggest using a stunshot if you have a mob streaking toward your healer or mage, your mp < their mp imo).

During a RAID.

From what i can surmise, Archers are formed into party's for minion patrol and occasional DD on main boss. You run around with silly buffs, and destroy all the minions so your tank/healer/mages dont have to worry about anything but the main boss. Pretty simple and straightforward, yes very effective.

As for PVP, this is where the hawkeye comes into power, especially at sieges. The hawkeyes stats are set up to where stationary firing and maneuvering is rewarded. High Con/Above Average Dex/Above Average Str. PR and SR are nice, but because of your high con, you can sacrifice some of it with tattoos to make your stats even better than your elven counterparts, and still have more hp. I've been to one siege on Hindemith (I was level 23 yay!:P), and it was the most awesome experience i've had in the game, and the main reason i play.

The one real downside to the Hawkeye is his speed. Unless you take a few dex tattoo and really crank it up (not advisable), you WILL be the slowest archer in the game. This is why your character really shines in the siege grounds. 80-90% of the action is fixed point, open field fighting. What the Hawkeye lacks in footspeed, he MORE than makes up for in pure raw dmg/accuracy.

So far during pvp, i've seen the following to work best for me.
Stun Shot > Double Shot > Normal Shot with SS > repeat.

So to summarize leveling wise :
-dont use bow till 40

-dont use weapon powers in PVE, unless youa re about to level and have a full mp bar

-If you can't afford a bow with cheap shot at 40, look into getting a dagger to xp with while your mana is down. last thing you need is to be oom while your party is in the middle of a huge pull (unfortunately this happens as the original poster explained). The dagger also helps solo play so you dont have to sit to regain mana, but you can be gaining xp while you regen (at a slightly slower rate).

-Pre 40's try to use accuracy buff instead of dagger skills. You wont lose any MP with running JUST accuracy, and you can save your dagger skills for "oh [censored]" moments.

-Post 40, with a bow i've found killing mobs white or green are FAR better for mp conservation than going for the Red, light red and yellow variety. Try to keep each mob kill to 4 hits or less, preferably less (1-3 is optimal). This will keep your MP in check and ensure you dont have to sit before buffs where off (if you have any).

-Buffs make your xp bar happy, I CANT EXPRESS THIS ENOUGH. As a dagger user pre 40 and a bow user post 40, you benefit extremely from focus, DW, btb, bts, VR (dagger only), guidance, shield, might, Wind Walk (best spell ever for dagger and bow imo) etc etc.

-When in a party, try to bring some buff potions, i.e. Greater haste, Greater Attk spd so that your Prophet doesn't have to waste that mana on you. And really, unless you have a clan hall(free buffs yay), you dont need every buff imaginable.

- LEARN WHICH MOBS ARE AGRO IN THE AREA YOU ARE HUNTING IN. I can not stress this enough. Not only will you not get your party killed by attacking a non agro mob when you just agro'd another, you will level quicker because you wont have huge pulls and long downtime. This goes for ALL classes really, but archers tend to be put into the "go pull your ranged" category.



As I said, this is just a small guide from my perspective on leveling one up to 43 so far and attending one siege, and pvping on the occasion. If you are a higher level Hawkeye and have more to add, please feel free, and critiquing is always welcome. I'm sure i've missed a few things, cause i have the feeling i've forgotten something or another.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm,umm.
In my party time, healer,buffer might only gets one or two hits from mobs. coz mobs<3 me better, so no need to use stun shot to wasate mp.
In pvp depense wat class i am againsting. anyway stun shot 1st.

[PushyCat_DE]

Good Topic Alagondar, and btw, wb.

BladeDancer: PVE

If the BD and SWS are in party together, then let the bd dance the first one before the sws begins their song. The reason is although both songs and dances are important, the offensive buffs should have priority. Also, BD/SWS should not worry so much about mana. Focus Mind 5 and 6 will allow you to regen enough mana to dance even if you have 0 mp points at the end of your last dance. If you are partied with sws, you have to be more careful.

Always remember to dance. Trust me people talk behind your backs when you get a reputation for forgetting to dance. Every once in a while is ok, but all the time then you are a noob bd.

Dont let people dictate to you what to dance. Its not rocket science. Mages get mage dances, melee get melee or a mixture. Dont let a healer or other class who has played a bd on the pts tell you what to do unless you are learniing level 40 or so. If your party needs inspiration, find a new party ;)

Raid Bosses

This might be a bit controversial, but I have come to the conclusion that BD's need to be more careful than other melee classes about hitting the raid boss. Even though every damage point helps, I think its more important for the bd to stay back and dance, hex, powerbreak the raid boss and not hit it. Bosses AOE and stun spells are too powerful at times and you will draw your healer's mana too much. Understand that a BD's most important contribution is dancing, not damaging a boss.

PVP:

I am not giving out any of my secrets there! :p Except that bd's have other talents than running into an enemy group to die.

[SultanAhmet2]

[ QUOTE ]
SR PVE

shoot Arrows

SR PVP

Shoot arrows

SR raid boss

Shoot arrows


sorry cant go in details, I gotta leave for work lol

[/ QUOTE ]

PR can hex haha

[bigpoppapump]

RAID BOSS TANKING

Just a quick word on this also I always make sure i have quick healing pots and GHP, That way if your party have gotten in too deepi..(your healers have ran out of mp) Drag the raid boss away from the rest of the group and give them a chance too survive.

Dont be afraid to take one for the team cause if you go down (and sometimes you do) what is the point in everyone else dying...

AOE TANKING


If you find yourself being the tank/puller make sure you have GHP and also haste potions, I have been in parties where buffers aint paying attention, and if wind walk goes you will be caught.

Pay attention to AOE mobs specials for instand if they use a flame strike then ask for resistance to fire. This HP can come in invaluble.

THE TANK AND PVP

As you have the most hit points and if eveyone is standing around afraid to flag use this too your advantage by whacking on your apponents a few times and take their CP away.

That way when it does go off you only have half a job to do.

=)

Also I would say use dedicated toolbars, Make a raid bar an AoE bar a PvP bar a Party bar. Nothing more annoying that people sorting out thier macro's when your about to do something.

Also Dark Avenger make sure you get you panther out and try get some buffs on the mother, cause that will do dmg, and if someone takes him out get him called again..

[Woodsman]

Going AFK

Never go AFk without warning the group.

When you have an essential role such as a healer or tank or crowd controller, do not go AFK until the group either slows down their speed till you return or untill the group is brought to a safe place.

Never ever go AFK inside a room filled with agro mobs. If you are doing this you are begging to die.

If you think you will have to go afk for more then a few minutes tell the party leader it is ok to kick you if it takes to long. Or leave the party yourself.

Time your afk. In lots of groups, mprests, buffrests etc are a necesity. Go afk during those rests so you dont interupt gamplay.

Never go AFK when another player did just that. A group missing one member will survive, a group missing 2 or 3 can be wiped out when they run into a problem.

[SultanAhmet2]

@dragothien yes you got a lot of con to sacrifice for tats, but then you lose the thing HEs are good at compared to PR and SR, their HP and CP.

[CBAXX]

[ QUOTE ]
@dragothien yes you got a lot of con to sacrifice for tats, but then you lose the thing HEs are good at compared to PR and SR, their HP and CP.

[/ QUOTE ]
/agree ^^ that's why i gave up my gimp HP+CP DE :P

[Dragothien_]

[ QUOTE ]
@dragothien yes you got a lot of con to sacrifice for tats, but then you lose the thing HEs are good at compared to PR and SR, their HP and CP.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. I tend to build any character i make in any game i play to an extreme, and also i gear them towards pvp.

I've never been a con [censored] type of person, i like big numbers floating above peoples head for dmg. I'd rather have around the same con as other racesand have better str or dex.

Again a personal playstyle, just the way i see it.

[SultanAhmet2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
@dragothien yes you got a lot of con to sacrifice for tats, but then you lose the thing HEs are good at compared to PR and SR, their HP and CP.

[/ QUOTE ]
/agree ^^ that's why i gave up my gimp HP+CP DE :P

[/ QUOTE ]

my hp cp is not that gimp bax :P cp 1700, hp without btb 3400, thats pretty good for a DE archer :P

[CBAXX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
@dragothien yes you got a lot of con to sacrifice for tats, but then you lose the thing HEs are good at compared to PR and SR, their HP and CP.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. I tend to build any character i make in any game i play to an extreme, and also i gear them towards pvp.

I've never been a con [censored] type of person, i like big numbers floating above peoples head for dmg. I'd rather have around the same con as other racesand have better str or dex.

Again a personal playstyle, just the way i see it.

[/ QUOTE ]
ur set up is not really towards to pvp, but pve :P but anyway, ppl have their way ^^. i just dun wanna be a glasss cannon =D

[SultanAhmet2]

i hate glas cannon too, so i dont go -9 con like other PRs, they are like 2-3 shots from nukers without crit x.x

for PVP, the most important stats by order are imo:

HP CP p.atk/m.atk and then others.

what do i do with lot of dmg if i die too fast :P

[Dragothien_]

[ QUOTE ]
i hate glas cannon too, so i dont go -9 con like other PRs, they are like 2-3 shots from nukers without crit x.x

for PVP, the most important stats by order are imo:

HP CP p.atk/m.atk and then others.

what do i do with lot of dmg if i die too fast :P

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, imo stats are just a means to an end.

I dont play an archer like a ranged tank, i play him as a physical dmg nuker with good supplemental skills.

In sieges, con doesn't do much for you, but two shotting most chars does. What does all that hp do for you when you hit for nada.

Again, just a playstyle thing, thats how i have always played my characters.

In 1 v 1, or small grp stuff, more hp is definitely a plus over dmg.

I plan on taking a +4str +4dex -8 con tattoo, im not gonna go the extra +str, but instead take a +men -int tatt.

[CBAXX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i hate glas cannon too, so i dont go -9 con like other PRs, they are like 2-3 shots from nukers without crit x.x

for PVP, the most important stats by order are imo:

HP CP p.atk/m.atk and then others.

what do i do with lot of dmg if i die too fast :P

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, imo stats are just a means to an end.

I dont play an archer like a ranged tank, i play him as a physical dmg nuker with good supplemental skills.

In sieges, con doesn't do much for you, but two shotting most chars does. What does all that hp do for you when you hit for nada.

Again, just a playstyle thing, thats how i have always played my characters.

In 1 v 1, or small grp stuff, more hp is definitely a plus over dmg.

I plan on taking a +4str +4dex -8 con tattoo, im not gonna go the extra +str, but instead take a +men -int tatt.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL con doesn't do much in siege, but too much !!!! SH's critical can't even 1 hit me :)

[Dragothien_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i hate glas cannon too, so i dont go -9 con like other PRs, they are like 2-3 shots from nukers without crit x.x

for PVP, the most important stats by order are imo:

HP CP p.atk/m.atk and then others.

what do i do with lot of dmg if i die too fast :P

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, imo stats are just a means to an end.

I dont play an archer like a ranged tank, i play him as a physical dmg nuker with good supplemental skills.

In sieges, con doesn't do much for you, but two shotting most chars does. What does all that hp do for you when you hit for nada.

Again, just a playstyle thing, thats how i have always played my characters.

In 1 v 1, or small grp stuff, more hp is definitely a plus over dmg.

I plan on taking a +4str +4dex -8 con tattoo, im not gonna go the extra +str, but instead take a +men -int tatt.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL con doesn't do much in siege, but too much !!!! SH's critical can't even 1 hit me :)

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe you're right, its just been my personal experience otherwise.

[SultanAhmet2]

i survived a lvl 75 SH critical too in siege ^_^.

but yea pvp it depends 1vs1 (rarely ever happens) or group pvp.

but con is imo always important.

btw, fighter classes can go +men - int?? thus more m.def? thought thats for mystics only

[CBAXX]

[ QUOTE ]
i survived a lvl 75 SH critical too in siege ^_^.

but yea pvp it depends 1vs1 (rarely ever happens) or group pvp.

but con is imo always important.

btw, fighter classes can go +men - int?? thus more m.def? thought thats for mystics only

[/ QUOTE ]
we only can touch wit and int i believe.

[Dragothien_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i survived a lvl 75 SH critical too in siege ^_^.

but yea pvp it depends 1vs1 (rarely ever happens) or group pvp.

but con is imo always important.

btw, fighter classes can go +men - int?? thus more m.def? thought thats for mystics only

[/ QUOTE ]
we only can touch wit and int i believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what i meant, my apologies :)

[jasai]

As for the frustrating party members, I don't know which is worse: A party that takes forever to get started or one that get's started and someone or everyone ends up having to go 30 minutes later... :mad:

Prophet
Buff...lol

Buff quickly (ask for Con dance if BD in party) and do your best to rebuff before the previous buffs fade. If you're in a large party (8-9 members) you'll mostly likely, and unfortunately, have to sit most of the time to regen your mp enough to buff again in 20 minutes.

If you're in a small party (4-5) then get don't be lazy and participate. If you're only buffing a few people, you can turn your walk on and help fight the mobs. Personally, I love small parties where I can get in on the action, I hate just sitting, buffing, sitting... One of the downfalls to being a prophet.

PVP:
Get your party buffed and during seiges just give the basics, don't waste all your mp and time giving everyone as many buffs as you can. Though its always nice to have all the buffs, it's not always practical.

If you can afford it, get a Mana Up weapon to use initially so you'll have more MP to start with, then once you're in action, get your normal weapon (best if you can get one with Focus) to use for combat. Bows are nice, but not that great for mass pvp, the range is so low that you're just as likely to get ***** as to do much damage. You're best bet is rooting the enemy for your party to finish off.

Also, before I forget, whoever you intend to give Bless the Soul to in the party, give it to them while you're waiting for party members, so their mana has time to regen while you're waiting, then just rebuff it with the normal buffs.

That's all I can think of for now.

[SultanAhmet2]

@ jasai, but plz plz plz, i HATE it when the prophet, in a pvp situation, wants to save mp and time, and gives you focus dw haste, and forgets ww or magic barrier or sumtin or BTB, those are essential in pvp, btb can change the results of a pvp match.

magic barrier and btb helps A LOT vs mages

[Warper]

Bishop

Rezzer note
WIT is the must for rezzer. To hit your maximum % rez you have to have 25 or 26 WIT. Tatto +WIT/-MEN helps, prefferably +3/+2 combinatino for +5 (it costs like one +4 tatoo). Armor sets for rezzer are Divine->BW Robe->Tallum/DC. Majestic looks good, but only at highest levels you'll have enough % rez with it. Not a good choice for 61 lvl at all (even if you have money for it).

Buffing note
Neat buffs for groups are berserker spirit, holy weapon, ww, body of avatar and prayer (for WC/SE buffer). Acumen is the must for SE buffer group.
At start cast body of avatar (generally you have time to regain mp after initial buffs), but try to avoid buffing it later, since it takes a lot of mp, but helps rarely. You can cast it quicker than heal any time it is needed. It's quick group heal in addition to anything.
For prophet-oriented group forget about these buffs.
Prayer is welcome in every group, though.

PvE Party - melee
Generally you are main healer, secondary buffer and secondary crowd controller.
Concentrate on your mp bar. Sit as much as possible, since it helps your mp regen. Sleep to save your own mana, not to make fancy look of the mob. Generally sleeping every mob is pointless, but 4th mob on the tank is the good call for sleep.
Never overheal people if you have less than max mp. Heal someone only if they will not be full health after. That is, don't waste mp on full heal if someone lack only 500 hp - it's a clear waste of you mana. Sometimes heal (not greater one) is better. For most tanks you heal for 15-25% hp, for most archers and mages you heal for 50%.
By the way, don't heal puller before the time. Do it after people start hitting a mob. You'll steal aggro otherwise.
Restore life comes handy for fat people. It's pointless to cast it on people with 3,5k hp or less, but for people with 4k hp it saves your mp (and allows you to use greater heal immediately after that).
Vitalise is useful for areas with poisoners. It's better use Vitalise than cure poison/purify+greater heal.
Don't hesitate to warn your group if you have 1/3 mp or lower. Don't hesitate to DEMAND rest if you have 300 mp.
Don't panic if you are hit by some mob. It is ok. Just say "add" in party chat and rely on your tank - it's his job to handle such situations. Sleep mob if needed (doesn't work with some dumb archers who think they are in archer group). If you are hit by that mob (archer or DD wakes a mob) several times, consider to use greater battle heal for youself. Ruined heal for a healer is a sure way to die. Just stay at your place - DO NOT RUN, you'll probably collect few more aggro mobs running around.
Ah, and don't forget your spisitshots. It's only only people are greedy, spiritshots add like 30% to heal effectiveness. You can use any weapon of c grade, even lowest ones - it does not matter much. But non-grade weapons with bsps will add only 10% to heals. Don't be too greedy youself, play your role the best you can - people will like you even poor if you do our job well.

PvE - archer
You are main healer and secondary buffer. Sleep is not needed. Conserve your mana, rest most of the time. But don't hesitate to stand up if you sense big pull. Standing up takes time, but archers don't have too much hit points. You better be ready to cast greater heal at 60%, not stand up at 40% of archers hp, even though you'll heal 50+%
Sleeps are less effective, since mobs die fast.

PvE - pole party
Don't hesitate to use BoA if people have no Bless the Body from other means. Heal after train is cornered and people make 1-2 hits. Otherwise you'll steal aggro and die painfully (still quickly).
Generally you heal outhates one hit. For social mobs - half a hit. So heal spamming is not best idea. Do it only if it is needed.
Restore life is a good idea near start of a pull. Just make sure it will land after first group hit or two.
If you can't heal quick enough with only gerater group heals, try GGH+Vitalise combination. It will be in between of gerater heal spam and Greater Heal+Greater Quick heal spam, but you'll save some mana comparing to GQH.
Don't hesitate to sit down every time your group finishes mobs. Loot is not your problem - generally you don't have enough mana and sitting regeneration is better for group.

PvE - mage AOE
You buffs are great. For sure your group will have SE, but probably will not have WC or prophet. Don't hesitate to buff people with acumen. Fire resistance is useful for buffing tank (no sorcerer in the party).
Again, sit as much as you can. Stand up before pull comes.
For tank+puller group don't heal puller. If he has 50% hp after tank gets mobs, it's all ok. For sure, kill puller at 25% - not doubt it is needed.
Your first heal per pull will probably be restore life. But try to make it after first hate aura and better after second hate aura as it outhates one aura from time to time. Combination of GGH+Vitalise is useful much like in pole party.
For tank=puller groups make your tank to come back with 60%+ hit points. If he's stupid enough to run back with 30%, you are at risk - the whole group will surely die not once.
And I can't stress is more - CONSERVE YOUR MANA. Don't heal tank blinding with all your heals if you can avoid it. If you lag, better chose safer group for a time or find another healer to coveryour lag spikes.
Overheal is the best way to watse your mana, try to measure hp decrease speed and heal exactly at time to make tank hit points 90%. There is only one exception - nukers/sleepers in your group. Don't hesitate to use greater quick heal if you see nuker hit points decreasing quickly.
Body of avatar is a good way to heal tank, by the way.
And once again - don't panic :) You can tank few mobs even though you draw aggro before hate aura. Only mob group leaders hit you - you can stay like this healing youself for minutes. Don't panic, just wait for hate aura.
Sometimes Requiem and Repose come handy in AB skelly part). You can resurrect you puller solo - use Requiem being next to mobs, and you have 1 minutes of calm mobs - more than enough for a quick rez.
If you lost your sleeper in this part (before pull comes to your group), make your puller run in circles around the group, cast one requiem and spam reposes. This way all mobs will be unaggro and after few reposes they'll stop chasing the puller.

PvP
In general you are primary target for enemy, so don't rush forward. Stay at back side and heal your party. Don't hesitate to use waking scrolls - it's much quicker than hitting your comrad. Try to sleep/root flagged people if they come to you - it will give your group a bit of time to target and kill them.
Even though you are healer, don't hesitate to have few quick healing potions and CP potions. Also get few magic haste potions and ww2 potions. And bind them all to special panel. If you get cancelled (happens sometimes) you are useless until you drink magic haste potion.
If you get hit, drink quick healing and CP potions (in addition to heals) - your healing spells might be interrupted easily with crits and general hits/nukes.
Root sleeping people if you have time to. Use ice bolt for people your group chases. Once in a while it will land slow effect, you are not very useful as DD anyway.

[jasai]

I couldn't agree more, Sultan, I'm talking about the buffs like Regeneration, Invigor, Resist Poison, etc... while they can be nice and useful, they're not as essential as the main handful.

[PaladinXMan]

Once you hit 72 or so you can buff 8-9 people and walk-fight =)

Unless your healer sucks and you have to help heal -.-

[TheDemonKnight]

Ok, here goes, I'll do the Sws since I still actively play mine.

Sws and Pve-

Pushy was more then correct when he said work out your songs and dances with a bd. As a Sws the only two songs people are going to want in pve from you are Hunter and Earth. So space it so when he is dancing, your about to sing inbetween his dances. Better your timing the more mp the BD has for debuffs. You don't need mp, at all except those two songs.

The Sws and being a tank- Ever get the whole way into the party, not see a tank and wonder who is going to be doing this job? Well, if you have alot of DD's higher then you in party. It shouldn't be you!. While in an emergency you can pull aggro for your party and your 4k hp and high pdef and mdef can keep you alive till the group can sleep or root, it really isn't recommended. You only get level 9 hate. Your not really a tank and holding aggro should not be a priority. If your party is relying on you to be the tank then there will be alot of dead people at the end of the day. Swordsingers do not have the high damage output of most other classes. Your even better off with a BD tanking then you. Hex works wonders on holding aggro. You only get entangle and, in pve, unless it's a raid boss it's useless.

Sws and the Raid Boss- Once again whether your in the tank party or an archer/melee party, usually the tank party will prefer no BD. So don't use one, get the extra healer. Warding, Earth and Vitality are your tanks best friends. Make sure you do vitality and keep it up no matter what. If your in an archer/melee party, then typical Pve rules apply. Get in there and beat on it. You won't pull aggro most likely.

Sws and AoE- Most people won't want you in a AOE party, this is a common mistake. Your songs and speed make you the best puller for an AOE party, get a real decent tank, and you can both time pulls to meet at the same time. 196 run speed without dex tats and song of wind up. Your tank loves the pdef skills and usually no matter the size of the group your nukers can polish off some really large pulls if the healer doesn't have to spam heals so much. Just keep in mind your uber usefullness wears off in two minutes. So make sure your pulls and killing go into effect before they disapear. Also, your still not a real tank. You don't get any levels of hate aura. So without a tank there, you can run around alot and get everyone killed. No one likes to die.

The Sws and Pvp- Let's face it, your a walking buff totem, but without spending alot of adena on tats and three diffrent sets of armor and weapons. You can take the damage but have zero chance of putting it out. So 1v1 unless you get a lower level person to beat on in a 1v1. Your probably going to lose. Stick with a focus sword and shield, and maybe a cheap C or B grade bow for when your defending a castle.

Which brings us to the point where Sws rule. You are the ultimate mass pvp character. Your fast, so you can keep up with your archer party during sieges and outside the arena pvp. There are those who swear by having a BD in with the archer party. Why? Grab another Archer. As long as the archer has haste2 and zerk, they'll kill fast enough it won't matter. Your songs really shine in mass pvp, if you can handle four songs make sure the buffer leaves the appropriate spaces for them. Hunter, Warding, Earth, and wind. You'll have a 6 or 7 man group of death. Make sure you lead your group into the field. Most people in mass pvp target what they see first. And if your taking the brunt of the fire, then the rest of your group is going to appreciate it and last all the more longer and take out whose hitting you.

Anyway these are just my observations of pvp over the last nine months or so as a swordsinger. I recently rerolled to a Silver Ranger, but still play my sws when my clan needs me. I am sure Tarissa or Taraza can add some useful info. But there are not to many of us still around. We seem to be a dying breed.

[DriFterZanZa]

Hawkeye

PVE
In PvE, all you really do is self buff and shoot. No need for any skills there unless u get too much aggro and have to stun one of them. Basically, you are gonna be the aggro hog of the party if you are the only archer. HE+Prophet buffs+Dances+Song of Hunter=Hate Skill better than a tank's 10 levels higher than you.

PvP (1 vs 1/Arena)
Again, you do you're self buffs. First archer shot will always be a stun shot and after that just normal shots while attempting to kite (we can't really kite well, thus, the word ATTEMPT). Do those steps, rinse and repeat against melee non-daggers. 1 vs 1 against a dagger is a little bit different. As usual you start off with self buffs and a stun shot but after that, instead of running away, HEs should use UE+Snipe combo. You really dont want to attempt to kite a dagger because of their backstab skill which WILL be the death of you. The UE and you're high con should keep you alive pretty well just throw in those stun shots whenever it is charged up and you're opponent isnt stunned. If its a 1 vs 1 Archer battle, start off with self buffs, first shot stun shot, and couple seconds after the stun hits (if it did hit) do you're UE+Snipe combo and attempt another stun shot and then normal shots. Rinse and repeat until the opponent is dead. Archer vs nukers...*sigh* well you TRY to kill the nukers anyway. Its just luck really. Pray to god you're stun goes off first and lands before his sleep lands or pray that you interrupt his spells. With the very fast cast speed of nukers you can't really do much to them in a 1 vs 1. Archer vs Summoner...another somewhat hard battle. First thing you really wanna do is take out the Summoner before taking on the summon. With all the buffs and bishop-like heals to their summon, it would be stupid to take on the summon first. You're problem is you're gonna be doing substantially less damage because of the summoner's transfer pain skill. Stun and shoot and running away from the summon and kiting the summoner if he/she has a melee weapon is a good idea.If the summoner has a bow however you could also try the UE+Snipe combo. Once the summoner dies you kite the summon until it dies.

Open PvP and Sieges
This is where you shine. You just pick off players left and right behind all of you're allies.Hehe by doing this though you're gonna be targetted alot as well. You're target sequence will be Robes--->Archers--->Support Heavy Armored characters--->Light Armored Melee--->Tanks. Be ready to use UE+Dash when you get multiple attackers on you. Stunshot will not be used as much unless it is to stop an attacker that is running away. Other than that just try to survive and ninja kill.

Raids
You just shoot like there is no tomorrow ;P No tactics really needed there unless specified by you're raid leader.

PS-I might be missing some stuff so, for my fellow Hawkeyes, feel free to add on to this :D

[Daymia]

if you've played your char from from level one. you should know ur class by now

no1 ever gives tanks enough credit.. hate is more complicated than some ppl realize

btw for aoe tanking... 2 hate aura's per train... one for the bosses (gets the minion aggro) one for the minions (get the bosses aggro)...as for basic mob to mob pve... hate doesnt keep aggro. it just gets it. damage keeps aggro, raw physical hits take aggro alot more than nukes ever do... if some1 swings at an add for 15 minutes for whatever reason... and they take half its hp down signifcantly. its rather difficult to just hate it off

heres a tip. if you get add. take it to the tank. dont solo it.
if you're being hit and you want the mob to stop. stop dealing dmg to the mobonce the primary source of damage leaves the mob. itll go for the secound source of aggro, either tank hate or the 2nd most damaging dd

its more important to kill mobs in order of their threat to a party. not neccesarily in order of what aggro'd. example: things that can paralyze get first priority. unless the current mob is all but dead. in wich case its safe for the tank to switch targets anyway

just because the party is buffing. doesnt mean every1 has to drop what their doing. you can still fight whilst buffing

for SK's... if your hate isnt keeping aggro, and HP isnt becomming an issue (vr works wonders) just hex, dont even need to spam bsps (it helps but its not important) emp helps alot too... and emp is free... but hex can add nearly 300 dmg on crits for meleenot only does this help the mob die. but the dd's get considerably more hp back from VR

and i would like to add... every1 has good days and bad. some days im not the best tank cuz something on TV has caught my eye... or some1 on msn wont shuttup

[_Blasphemy_]

BladeDancer

General:
Always keep an eye on your dances. Always. Know when they fade and once the last dance fades, start dancing again. Don't keep your party waiting for dances, it can become very annoying. When in a party with a Sws. Find out what the order will be between songs/dances. Don't dance until both your dances and their songs have faded. If the sws sings and you don't realize it till after 30-45 seconds afterwords. Don't bother dancing, just wait until the next round to do it. Otherwise the sws will have to wait and so will your party.
Keep Ultimate Defence on your hotbar, You never know when something could happen and that will save you. Also, by dancing you will sometimes pull in aggrassive mobs so be prepared. Note *DO NOT PARTY OVERWEIGHT* If you have the Overweight icon up at all, get rid of some weight. It effects your mp regen, and then you have MP issues to worry about. It doesn't matter if you have a SE in the party or not. They should not have to give you MP rechargers unless you're using Hex along with dancing.

Tanking:
You aren't a tank. Naturally being a Dark Elf you have low con, and you only have heavy armor masteries from being a Palus Knight. Besides that you don't have a shield to help protect yourself and so you'll die pretty quick if you tank. Only tank if you really have to. Otherwise leave it to actual tanks or a sws perferably w/ a shield.

Pvp:
One of the best weapons you have over other classes is Speed and Critcal Rate. I would personally suggest +4 str -4 con tattoos and possibly some + dex - con tattoos. You'll die fast, but you can get in a lot of damage at a good speed so you can help youself stay alive. Try not to pvp a nuker unless you have a bow.

AoE:
This is Wonderful for a BD. Lets face it... You do pretty much nothing. Most of the time they will not use you as the runner, they'd probably rather send a DA as the runner than you. So, your main job in a AoE is just to dance. Dance Con first, Mystic and that's it. Have the tank give you an Incoming message, Dance when you get it. Sit down and enjoy the show. Nice exp, Nice Drops. No Soulshots needed.
But if the runner is close to you when you start dancing, you're more then likely going to bring the mobs to you so have UD ready if you need it.

Raids:
For the most part, You have it easy. Try and get yourself with a Nuker party. You do them more good then any other group and they'll out damage the DD's anyway. Dance Con, Mystic and Fury for yourself. With the buffs from the Prophets etc you'll be fine. Make sure that when you dance you're within distance of the Nukers, it's a complete waste if you're the only one in the party getting the dances.

Sieges:
Get a bow if you can. Dance, then switch to a bow. You shoot fast, and hit for decent damage even though your range isn't the best. It's much better then trying to run up to everyone and smack them with duals or waste more mp by using drain health or freezing strike. I know on the siege ground It's a constant fight, but remember to keep an eye on your dances, You need them and your party needs them.

Notes:

* Do use duals until you're 40. You get no skills that help you with them, stick to Sword and Shield.

* Get armor/duals that help with either Critical or Attack Spd.

* Don't let people tell you you're not a DD. We are in fact a support class but we give good damage too

[SithMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
RAID BOSS TANKING
If the raid boss has co-horts, YOU WILL HAVE TO SPAM AURA HATE UNTILL THE CO-HORTS ARE DEAD.
Every raid boss who has co-horts should lose the co-horts first, always kill the co-horts in this order:
HEALER
ARCHERS
MELLE


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I've tanked my fair share of bosses, (starting with outlawz and NM on the big white tiger, at least *successfully*). So I'm gonna throw in some tips to this.

You don't have to spam hate aura. One or two and the minions are stuck unless some idiot decides to nuke the raid boss instead of the minions, in which case, he deserves a good bloody death. There are two tanking styles depending on your dd's. If you have a lot of melee, you stand up and cycle stun/hate through the fight. It's probably best to pretty much use those skills constantly, because all those melee crits do funny things to aggro. If you are mostly nuker, have a nuker slow the boss after the start. Hate, when the boss arrives, stun, then move away and hate again. Keep up this cycle and kite the boss. You will save a massive amount of healer mp.

Next tip: Raid bosses are WEIRD. If we raid 20 times a week, everything goes fine, but it's that one night, outta nowhere, the raid boss decides he doesn't care about hate. I'm beginning to wonder if the aggro counter has a "roll." In other words, if the boss takes too long, and you keep hitting hate, eventually you put yourself in the negative. Example: The other night we raid Ipos. Pucca buffs, sits down, zero mp. Ipos gets to 50% health and suddenly, runs straight to the sitting Pucca. She hasn't moved since the boss was attacked, and bam bam bam bam, 4 hits, dead Pucca. Ipos looks for the next victim. How does that work for aggro? It doesn't even make sense. The longer the raid takes, the more often screwy things like this happen. They often seem to aggro people doing ABSOLUTELY nothing on these rare occurrences. It's screwy, I don't like it.


When to use stun in a party.

Stun makes all those pretty little stars. When do I get to use it in a party? Stun has two uses. One, to counter mob abilities. This means when you see a mob trying to para, aoe nuke, or aoe stun. You quickly snap off a shield stun and save your whole party the hassle. It's cheaper for your healer to regen your mana should he need to, than group heal or purify 3 members. That's probably the main use of stun.

Two, when you lose hate. You have a bd, a sws, and you own a **** blunt which doesn't crit if God himself uses it. If it's taking too long to kill mobs, crits can easily pull aggro. This is when you stun. Stop him dead in his tracks, get in a couple hits, and stun generates skill based aggro as well.

Funny things about aggro.

Sometimes mobs just plain get weird and there is gonna be nothing you can do about it. So dont expect every mob all week to go perfect.

Skills, not your skills, mob skills. When monsters cast spells, stun, or even just power attack, this often is completely unrelated to aggro. Many times they will just cast on the nearest target, but others, the mob will run off to the corner, stun your archer, then come running all the way back to you to keep attacking. No extra hate, he just really wanted to stun that archer. This isn't a moment to spam half your mana on hate. One of the worst things you can do to a party is spam hate so much that you don't have it when you need it. You don't need to hate every single monster, just ones that hurt or you can't kill fast. If you have 5 SH in party killing weak to wind mobs, don't bother. All you're using hate for is to pull.

UD, UD costs mana. UD costs the mana to hit UD, and enough mana to establish hate so the mobs are actually hitting you. If you're under 100 mana, there is no point in using UD.

[mrsexy187]

i play an SK and allthough we are not a very good AOE tank, i have tanked AOE partys several times... not once have i died any less than 2x.

reasons for death: nukers forgetting they need to nuke, healers going afk in the middle of pulls without warning, healers forgetting to heal while present, sleepers forgetting they need to sleep (no im not exagerating about any of this, its all happened at LEAST once)

the funniest thing ive seen in an aoe was one time i was in an aoe with 2 SE's and an EE, i pulled a nice train because right as i pulled all 3 were present. i come back with about 8 - 10 groups of mobs at V-rock and only 1 healer remembered to heal, needless to say i died, the mobs started to aggro the rest of the group and one person starts yelling "rez the tank rez the tank" so the healer rezzed me, i hate aura'd and the moron forgot to heal me. i mean wth "lets rez the tank so he can regain aggro and forget to heal him again".

people REALLY need to stop buying accounts/lvls and learn their place in partys.

thank you and have a nice day :)

[Darkagony]

THis is true. Although I hate to admit alot of my stuff and quick based buffs I gained through thought out playing with Luke. But another thing for prophets to remember is that who gets what buffs, over buffing for pve in parties I have seen so many prophets waste mana on buffing mages with everything. Or buffing dd's with mage buffs vice versa.

Prophs are mainly good for smaller parties or duos, so you dont have to sit on your rump regaining your mana back. Soloing isnt bad either for prophs if you learn you armor masteries in heavy armor and duals with a focus sa on it you can do pretty well on your own.

For pvp though keeping yourself alive with a good healer is easy. Root unless its an archer dont waste the mana. Sleep is ok with good matk, but if you have enough room which was easier back before you had to change the boots and crap for b grade to heavy or w/e I always had a set of heavy and robes on me to switch to that to help deal dmg and kill. Otherwise I just helped heal with the bishop when he got low and rooted the crap out of people.

[Alagondar]

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Good Topic Alagondar, and btw, wb.

BladeDancer: PVE

If the BD and SWS are in party together, then let the bd dance the first one before the sws begins their song. The reason is although both songs and dances are important, the offensive buffs should have priority. Also, BD/SWS should not worry so much about mana. Focus Mind 5 and 6 will allow you to regen enough mana to dance even if you have 0 mp points at the end of your last dance. If you are partied with sws, you have to be more careful.

Always remember to dance. Trust me people talk behind your backs when you get a reputation for forgetting to dance. Every once in a while is ok, but all the time then you are a noob bd.

Dont let people dictate to you what to dance. Its not rocket science. Mages get mage dances, melee get melee or a mixture. Dont let a healer or other class who has played a bd on the pts tell you what to do unless you are learniing level 40 or so. If your party needs inspiration, find a new party ;)

Raid Bosses

This might be a bit controversial, but I have come to the conclusion that BD's need to be more careful than other melee classes about hitting the raid boss. Even though every damage point helps, I think its more important for the bd to stay back and dance, hex, powerbreak the raid boss and not hit it. Bosses AOE and stun spells are too powerful at times and you will draw your healer's mana too much. Understand that a BD's most important contribution is dancing, not damaging a boss.

PVP:

I am not giving out any of my secrets there! :p Except that bd's have other talents than running into an enemy group to die.

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Thanks although i was never really left, i've just been hiding on a money makeing alt :P

[PushyCat_DE]

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* Don't let people tell you you're not a DD. We are in fact a support class but we give good damage too

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I agree with you to a certain point. I dont know who you are or what clan you are in, but it does determine who you play with and against. In PVE, bds are great dd's. Much more than other sword-using classes. But in pvp/pk, it depends on with whom you are partied with and fighting against.

My parties typically include people like Duke, Amesty, Ulti, Sher, Scrogg, Caillech, Cherise, people who are almost all 76 or higher. When you always are in these type of parties and you have this type of firepower behind you, as a bd, you tend to develop other strategies for helping your group. I can never get more than 2-4 hits in before my target is dead. Frustrating as it is, people ksing your pks, you tend to find other ways to help.

PVE is a different matter, I regularly would kill some mobs before my party could regen the mana or catch up to me (many nukers walk in pt) But still, the crits they have are phenomenal.

Anyway, if I was in a group where the levels were low and the people not as good at their characters as I was, yeah, I can see where the BD would be considered a great DD. But, like I said, I am not in that case and I have made my own strategies based on who I party with.

So it is based on who you are partied with I guess is what I am trying to say :)

[_Blasphemy_]

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[ QUOTE ]
* Don't let people tell you you're not a DD. We are in fact a support class but we give good damage too

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I agree with you to a certain point. I dont know who you are or what clan you are in, but it does determine who you play with and against. In PVE, bds are great dd's. Much more than other sword-using classes. But in pvp/pk, it depends on with whom you are partied with and fighting against.

My parties typically include people like Duke, Amesty, Ulti, Sher, Scrogg, Caillech, Cherise, people who are almost all 76 or higher. When you always are in these type of parties and you have this type of firepower behind you, as a bd, you tend to develop other strategies for helping your group. I can never get more than 2-4 hits in before my target is dead. Frustrating as it is, people ksing your pks, you tend to find other ways to help.

PVE is a different matter, I regularly would kill some mobs before my party could regen the mana or catch up to me (many nukers walk in pt) But still, the crits they have are phenomenal.

Anyway, if I was in a group where the levels were low and the people not as good at their characters as I was, yeah, I can see where the BD would be considered a great DD. But, like I said, I am not in that case and I have made my own strategies based on who I party with.

So it is based on who you are partied with I guess is what I am trying to say :)

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Well yeah, But I was just too lazy to tell everything depending on who you pvp and parties etc. My strats change depending on who is in my party too, there are some people I actually refuse to party with because they often get killed or will end up getting me killed.

But I know what you're saying. A well equiped BD, perferably in Tallum w/ Kesh*Kesh is a good DD 1v1 and Pve. At least from what I've noticed.

[Alagondar]

Bump~

Ok come on there has to be more leet level people who know what they are doing with their class, share it for the noobs.
gogo

[Minako]

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I would love to give my 2 cents on Spellhowlers but I think I will leave that to others.

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:( as a lvl 5X I would like 7X inputs. But... well... can´t have everything.

[Sovrath]

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I would love to give my 2 cents on Spellhowlers but I think I will leave that to others.

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:( as a lvl 5X I would like 7X inputs. But... well... can´t have everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well.. I just think that others could do it better... Besides, by lvl 5x you have probably already figured out all of this by now... but ok.. here ya go...

Spellhowler:

First off.... though a SpellHowler is the Heavy hitting Nuker and can do quite a lot of damage, resist the temptation to unleash "unholy hell" on the mob. Even with Body to Mind, Mana is always an issue.

What I do is target the mob but always scan the background for any nearby mobs. As a matter of fact.. most of the time I am watching the area and not the mob in question.

Reason being is that though you are the heavy hitting nuker, you bring with you other skills that can come in handy such as sleep, slow, silence, And maybe curse chaos... I have yet to see a noticeable effect from using it. However.. if things start gettng dicey, I might throw it on the mob the tank is dealing with.

Since you are a SpellHowler your casting is slow.. In some ways this is a blessing in disguise because after you start casting, you can click on another mob and apply a sleep to it as soon as the first spell is done.

For the few people who have partied with me, one thing they have noticed is that I can sleep many mobs very quickly. Since we don't have mass sleep it is the only way. So practice sleeping/targeting/sleeping low lvl mobs so you can get good at it.

If there are several mobs that the tank is targeting I apply slow. This will help the healer as well as the tank will receive less hits.

Truth of the matter is I try to only hit the mob 3 times... maybe four, for damage. I spend the rest of time in crowd control.

Now.. obviously if you pull something that seems to be to much, then use what you have to finish it off.

If this does happen... make sure you slow the mob. You will be able to kite it once it realizes that you are the one that is giving it the most damage.

Make sure you have silence on your toolbar because you will find that many mobs have ranged attacks.. some of which can be quite effective. So learn what mobs in the area cast and use it. Of course if you can sleep it great but if you have several mobs that are slept you are going to have to be watching all of them so why not disable one or two right off the bat.

Watch the healers. The Healers are watching the tank. Who is watching the healers? You are. If mobs rush the healer, sleep, slow.. do what is needed.

Essentially... even though you are giving some damage to the mob you should always be scanning the area. If a mob spawns keep an eye on it but don't do anything until it does. Reason being is that it's timer might be going and it is not a threat. If you start sleeping all the mobs that spawn you are essentilly creating a backlog of enemies that you are going to have to deal with.

At the end of the mob's hit points I throw a Shadow Flare to get the over hit. If the party doesn't like this then fine but I have found you can quite a lot of xp by doing this and I'm an xp [censored].

Keep surrender to wind on your toolbar. If you have 2 SH's in the group, decide who will cast it but take turns casting it. This way you both aren't wasting mana.

If you find that you have some mobs that are wind resistant then use death spike (which means keep cursed bones on you). It is a good spell, uses less mana and does pretty much equal damage to the Hurricaine (except of course on Wind Resistant mobs, which is why you will have it ready).

If you do get mobs chasing after you and you are having issues then remember.. slow if you can, Vampire claw when you can, and if your health is going down, once you drop a mob, immediately hit (edit) Corpse Life Drain. That will give you a good boost until the healer can get to you.

Manage your mana with Body to Mind. I am, however.. not a believer in using CDL in dangerous areas because all it takes is one good hit and you are no use to the party. I know it saves mana but I really don't think it is a good idea. Having said that... be careful about taking yoru health to low with Body to mind for the same reason.

And in the end... faster killing is safer and better xp.

Was once in one of the Necros with my clannies. We took longer than I would have preferred to kill the mob and our prophet says "hey.. this is great xp". Well.. 14k+ is good xp except I could have soloed 2 greens and gotten more in faster time.

So... if you guys can find mobs that you can drop relativlely quickly.. go that route.

In summation:

Only hit the mob a few times.. manage your mana with body to mind.

Use Shadowflare to get last hit (unless the party doesn't want it.. sometimes they say it lowers the chance for drops.. others say it gives you more xp but the same sp so it isn't good... I thnk it's hooey but respect your party members)

You are crowd control so have all your Crowd Control spells at the ready.

Watch the Healer. Always.. ALWAYS Scan the area.

Learn what mobs are wind resist, cast etc.

And follow what I said above... don't go afk a lot, respect your party member's time, be honest if you are going to bring several alliances down on the party if seen etc.

Oh... if a party member dies then always scan the area for their drops. You might die becuase of it but people will get to know you as a person who will gather their drops (and give them back
:) ) and will be known as a concientous party player).

Oh here's something: when the party is resting.. body to mind your *** off. I will assume you are in a safe area. Maybe even pop a health potion to help with body to mind. Eventually.. the healer will throw a heal your way. continue to body to mind. You will be surprised how much mana you will have and how much time you can save the party.

If I'm careful, I will then apply vamp claw on the next mob once we start hunting again, if my health is not up from the healer. Then a Corpse Life Drain... good as new. Just be mindful you are vulnerable if you do this.

I hope that some of that was helpful. :cool:
I'm sure other SH's will have better advice because they might party more.

edit: ok..here's another one.. I keep thinking of these extra things... Carry fast casting potions on you.. even if you are assured acumen. There have been times when things started going wrong... mobs are everwhere... and the healer/buffer is busy saving lives... then the buffs start going. As soon as the buffs start going pop the fast cast potion. If you can't be quick during that type of emergency then things are going to get worse. So just be prepared.

[Minako]

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by lvl 5x you have probably already figured out all of this by now...

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Any help is good help. There are some things I hadn´t thought about, even if I actually do some of them.

I always carry Magic Haste Pots, but never thought of using them for PVE. It's obvious, but I hadn´t thought of doing it.

Slow is another thing that I use... for PvP. Never throwed it at mobs or even considered it. But it makes sense.

mmmm.... mob control, it is true that nukers are crowd control, but I never considered it as a speciffic work.

Thanks for the tips and ideas :D
I'm known to sometimes lack very basic knowledge. I soloed untill level 25or30 and then joined a clan that generally knowed [censored]. So... I didn´t start to learn valuable things untill late 4X, when I changed to another clan where everyone assumed that a lvl 4X should know all the basic tricks (I still have to do the "stupic question" from time to time... O_o I thought overhit was some kind of critical... :o that was embarrasing... ).

[Sovrath]

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[ QUOTE ]
by lvl 5x you have probably already figured out all of this by now...

[/ QUOTE ]

Any help is good help. There are some things I hadn´t thought about, even if I actually do some of them.

I always carry Magic Haste Pots, but never thought of using them for PVE. It's obvious, but I hadn´t thought of doing it.

Slow is another thing that I use... for PvP. Never throwed it at mobs or even considered it. But it makes sense.

mmmm.... mob control, it is true that nukers are crowd control, but I never considered it as a speciffic work.

Thanks for the tips and ideas :D
I'm known to sometimes lack very basic knowledge. I soloed untill level 25or30 and then joined a clan that generally knowed [censored]. So... I didn´t start to learn valuable things untill late 4X, when I changed to another clan where everyone assumed that a lvl 4X should know all the basic tricks (I still have to do the "stupic question" from time to time... O_o I thought overhit was some kind of critical... :o that was embarrasing... ).

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.. well. don't feel bad.. I've soloed most of my lvl's. As I've mentioned before, I don't party much because I really can't wait around for a party or hate having parties dissolve when I get there, or have someone decide that they have a personal vendetta to accomplish and suddenly I'm caught in a war.

In any case... for the few times I do party (which is mostly with clan members.. .sometimes in pickup groups if I'm feeling social) this is how I do it. And I strongly believe in the SH as crowd control with "some" major damage additions.

It's just that you just don't want to "blow it all" on the first few mobs. So you might as well take advantage of your other sills.

And I"ve used slow so many times... especially when an accidental pull "pulls" 3 or more mobs.

[Badger49]

Very nice post Warper. :)
*claps*

One thing to add:
Never, ever engage monsters if they have ANY skills aside from pure damage dealing. Monsters like to turn around a surprise someone who whacks them with a status attack, regardless of who has how much aggro.

A randomly paralyzed bishop (or SE/EE for that matter) is, for the purpose of healing the party, dead. Of course some monsters seem to go out of their way to run from a fight just to thwack the healer, even if he hasn't healed once (anyone else noticed that? >.<) but you don't have to dare them to do it.
Also, swinging your sword (or whatever) and then healing makes your char finish his attack first, sometimes the game slips another attack in between... those 2 seconds could just be the death for a freakspawn aggroed glasscannon.

Everyone has her/his own playstyle anyway but staying out of fights to have a clear view of the situation and being able to respond to what happends the second it does happen worked for me so far. :)

Oh and I just love those healer types that heal everyone like crazy when they are missing about 5% of their hp bar. :cool:

BoA's cost decreased a lot in C4!~ :eek:

Namárië
Badger[49]