!WOOOT No PVP Server [Archive]

Balis

02-08-2006, 12:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The server descriptions in the server selection list are a bug and will be corrected as soon as possible. There is no "relaxed"-type server currently available. Sorry for the confusion!

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pwnd jedi style imo

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What I want to know is how they can say NO, People are intrested in the concept, why not explore the idea of such a server with the community?

Its like Henry Ford back in the day, when he only allowed black paint on cars.

Ford: You can have any color as long as its black.
Customer: I want Red
Ford: So black it is!
Customer: No I want Red!
Ford: Ok, no problem, Black it is.
Customer: *fumes*

I think if we all push hard enough they will consider it! Maybe, hopefully.

Balis

HIeverybody

02-08-2006, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The server descriptions in the server selection list are a bug and will be corrected as soon as possible. There is no "relaxed"-type server currently available. Sorry for the confusion!

[/ QUOTE ]

pwnd jedi style imo

[/ QUOTE ]

What I want to know is how they can say NO, People are intrested in the concept, why not explore the idea of such a server with the community?

Its like Henry Ford back in the day, when he only allowed black paint on cars.

Ford: You can have any color as long as its black.
Customer: I want Red
Ford: So black it is!
Customer: No I want Red!
Ford: Ok, no problem, Black it is.
Customer: *fumes*

I think if we all push hard enough they will consider it! Maybe, hopefully.

Balis

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

Darkmotion

02-08-2006, 12:08 PM

Greetings,

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What I want to know is how they can say NO, People are intrested in the concept, why not explore the idea of such a server with the community?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has already been explored with the community. They know people want it.

They also knew about the bug ahead of time.

SO.... Black it is.

Have Fun ! ™

BoardPK
Official Board Devil

[/ QUOTE ]

Wyzeguy

02-08-2006, 12:26 PM

That Mistryl! She's such a tease!

----------------------------
Ok, black it is!

Torg

02-08-2006, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to point out.

Getting to a high level in this game requires nothing more then a computer, an active account, ample free time and a limitless appetite for tedious tasks.

There is no significant challenge other then whether or not you are willing to sacrifice large chunks of time to the game. If there were great amounts of skill necessary to play then it would solve many of the automation issues in the game.

HIeverybody

02-08-2006, 12:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to point out.

Getting to a high level in this game requires nothing more then a computer, an active account, ample free time and a limitless appetite for tedious tasks.

There is no significant challenge other then whether or not you are willing to sacrifice large chunks of time to the game. If there were great amounts of skill necessary to play then it would solve many of the automation issues in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm... no you are wrong... forming a good party takes skill... knowing who good healers are and who bad healers are takes intelligence... back in the days of c2 when every party was a mixed party it was more so... also soloing takes skill... if it didn't... people wouldn't be shouting "WTB % REZ!"

Wetzel

02-08-2006, 12:52 PM

why you want exlax server? that would be a mess

:p

Elrohir

02-08-2006, 12:54 PM

Torg

02-08-2006, 12:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to point out.

Getting to a high level in this game requires nothing more then a computer, an active account, ample free time and a limitless appetite for tedious tasks.

There is no significant challenge other then whether or not you are willing to sacrifice large chunks of time to the game. If there were great amounts of skill necessary to play then it would solve many of the automation issues in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm... no you are wrong... forming a good party takes skill... knowing who good healers are and who bad healers are takes intelligence... back in the days of c2 when every party was a mixed party it was more so... also soloing takes skill... if it didn't... people wouldn't be shouting "WTB % REZ!"

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you're joking. If you're not... well then I feel kinda sorry for you and won't pick on you any further. Free time... that's all it really takes. If you want it to go even smoother.. get a 2nd account and have your own personal healer/buffer.

StThomas

02-08-2006, 01:00 PM

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people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it

[/ QUOTE ]

And what about the career types that play this game, a family, and a 50+ hour job?

Are we undesearving as well? Or do we pay 15 bucks per month to be "undesearving" and bow down to the "im a recent high school grad still living with my parents."

Sovrath

02-08-2006, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]

But you misunderstand the nature of the "relaxed server".

It is not "easier" as you have limited amount of time. Relaxed server are for people who also, only have limited amount of time. So, even if you were Mr. Powerplayer, you would never be able to rush to the end as you would run out of time each week.

All a relaxed server does is let people who have limited amount of time feel like they are accomplishing something given the limited amount of time in their lives as well as the server's limits.

Wyzeguy

02-08-2006, 01:18 PM

Hey, you can almost anything skilled.

We have a friend of the family who couldn't get past the training regimen for Starbucks. So perhaps even L2 taxes some people.

Double tall skinny latte FTW!

bekkar

02-08-2006, 01:38 PM

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do we pay 15 bucks per month to be "undesearving" and bow down to the "im a recent high school grad still living with my parents."

[/ QUOTE ] It's not that you got a good job, it's that you lack proper mooching-off-parent skills.

Wetzel

02-08-2006, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it

[/ QUOTE ]

And what about the career types that play this game, a family, and a 50+ hour job?

Are we undesearving as well? Or do we pay 15 bucks per month to be "undesearving" and bow down to the "im a recent high school grad still living with my parents."

[/ QUOTE ]

we are unworthy, we are unworthy, we are unworthy. . . da na na da na na da na na (it's the melody in my head, you have to be there, oh - you are)

Elrohir

02-08-2006, 01:42 PM

HIeverybody

02-08-2006, 01:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming that you kept your *** off of PTS then?

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yes i did keep my *** off the pts. I don't have time for it... I almost suggested only high lvls be allowed to test it... then i decided it was better for more people to test it to catch all possible bugs.

i'm hardly high lvl.. i have a mid 60s bd and a low 60s necro... i too work 40+ hours a week. I have played since retail... y should somebody be able to go on a relaxed searver and be able to expierence all the endgame content without puting the time in?

This game is meant to be hardcore.

Torg

02-08-2006, 01:58 PM

So its more of a 'If I had to suffer then everyone has to suffer' kind of thing... gotcha...

If you were having fun then I don't think you'd be so hostile towards the idea. These other players wouldn't be competing with you anyway so it doesn't really matter. You should really be more hostile to all those darn new people and their newbie buffs powerlevelling from 1-20 when everyone before C3 had to do it the hard way!

It still boils down to free time and an endless appetite for pointless grinding.

Alrohir

02-08-2006, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]

But you misunderstand the nature of the "relaxed server".

It is not "easier" as you have limited amount of time. Relaxed server are for people who also, only have limited amount of time. So, even if you were Mr. Powerplayer, you would never be able to rush to the end as you would run out of time each week.

All a relaxed server does is let people who have limited amount of time feel like they are accomplishing something given the limited amount of time in their lives as well as the server's limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may let people who have limited ammount of time get higher level, but you are always going to have the no-life wherever you go, they will be on the relaxed server just as they are on the current servers. It won't solve much in my opinion, like someone said earlier, what fun is end game content if you haven't earned it?

Wyzeguy

02-08-2006, 02:15 PM

I think the relaxed server rules, you'd spend at least as much time to get to your levels. Just fewer hours per day, but still a slow multi-year grind to get up there.

You'd still have earned it. And might not be so fat from sitting at the computer all the time. That's win-win-nowhine! :cool:

Sovrath

02-08-2006, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I hope not. Relaxed servers should never happen imo... people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it... a relaxed searver is the same as a cheat code in other games....

[/ QUOTE ]

But you misunderstand the nature of the "relaxed server".

It is not "easier" as you have limited amount of time. Relaxed server are for people who also, only have limited amount of time. So, even if you were Mr. Powerplayer, you would never be able to rush to the end as you would run out of time each week.

All a relaxed server does is let people who have limited amount of time feel like they are accomplishing something given the limited amount of time in their lives as well as the server's limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may let people who have limited ammount of time get higher level, but you are always going to have the no-life wherever you go, they will be on the relaxed server just as they are on the current servers. It won't solve much in my opinion, like someone said earlier, what fun is end game content if you haven't earned it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I have to say that I personally wouldn't go on a relaxed server as I wish to put in how ever much time I would like to.

Having said that, you still "earn it".

But due to the nature of the server you can put in 1 hour per day or 2 hours per day.. skip a few etc, and still feel that you accomplish something. Should you get someone who wants to put the max 30 hours (I believe that was the amount of time that was indicated on the C3 PTS) they would be the highest lvls but would not be lvl 78 in a month.

Another way to think of it is the enjoyment and satisfaction that one gets on the regular server is not diminished by someone being on another server with raised rates but limited time.

"IF" the idea is that "we have to play forever to get anywhere then they have to do the same" then it points more to the fact that "in fact" no one likes the way it is and it's a "we all go down with the ship" type of thing.

Another example... if you play Monopoly... some people play that all game fines go in the middle of the board. If one lands on the "no parking" you get the money. There are other such deviations to the rules. Yet this will have no affect on you if you play Monopoly in your own house with "strict" rules.

In the end it has to be what you get out of it. Now... if they "split" a server and allowed some people on the same server to sign up for a system where they can only play 30 hours per week but they get an increased % of adena and xp and their fellow party member does not then I would think in the end that would be unfair as you can have someone on the regular server only able to play for 30 hours per week due to real life responsibilities and the other person just signed on for this fictional program and yet the person in the program makes out better.

That last one is an extreme example but there it is.

Hmmm... also.. given the thread topic, it is important to note there is a difference between a non-pvp server and a relaxed server (though for some reason NC gives the Non-pvp server raised rates as well)

RupleSkin

02-08-2006, 02:37 PM

I'm glad there isn't a new different server, because someone might go there and have fun. This game is a grind, it isn't suppose to be fun. lol (really laughing)

Lord Chaos

02-08-2006, 04:04 PM

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people should not be allowed to expierence highend game play without earning it

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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you mean like the majority of high end content players are doing right now?

PacificaCasull

02-08-2006, 09:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The server descriptions in the server selection list are a bug and will be corrected as soon as possible. There is no "relaxed"-type server currently available. Sorry for the confusion!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is being translated from the Korean version of L2. The absence of a relax or a non-PVP server, I believe, is a decision of NA NCSoft and not a bug.

I mean how can the text be a bug when it is possible for the current game to be tweaked for non-PVP/Relax and the only reason why such server dun exist is due to NA NCSoft delibrate decision.

HIeverybody

02-08-2006, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So its more of a 'If I had to suffer then everyone has to suffer' kind of thing... gotcha...

If you were having fun then I don't think you'd be so hostile towards the idea. These other players wouldn't be competing with you anyway so it doesn't really matter. You should really be more hostile to all those darn new people and their newbie buffs powerlevelling from 1-20 when everyone before C3 had to do it the hard way!

It still boils down to free time and an endless appetite for pointless grinding.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, you are wrong. it isn't, "oh they have to suffer too."

For a moment pretend you play on Bartz (don't know your actual searver) then lets say NCsoft changes the rules a little... botting & e-baying are now legal on kain, but not on bartz. how would you feel? I'm guessing you would be upset. I know I would be... sure it doesn't change the way bartz is run, but it cheapens the game. Lineage 2 advertises itself as a hardcore mmog.... relaxed searvers are not hardcore... they cheapen the game, and cheats those who have put the time in from the beginning....

as to the arguments it will still take months to lvl due to restrictions on time... that isn't a real argumen... there are many weeks that I play less than 30 hours a week... the fact is in their 30 hours... they gain more than everybody elses 30 hours...

StThomas

02-09-2006, 04:04 AM

because your just so freakin cool, Hieverybody!

Can I have your autograph? I mean, I know its too much for a lowly person like me, one not WORTHY of high end content because well....I dont worship this game nor do I use it to define my existance, but you do!

And that makes you just....the peachy-keen steen! :o

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 06:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
because your just so freakin cool, Hieverybody!

Can I have your autograph? I mean, I know its too much for a lowly person like me, one not WORTHY of high end content because well....I dont worship this game nor do I use it to define my existance, but you do!

And that makes you just....the peachy-keen steen! :o

[/ QUOTE ]

are you still upset that I had to expain to you what is and is not taxable income?

RumPunch

02-09-2006, 07:05 AM

If there were a relaxed server (personally, I hope there never is) then it would still see a lot of people with unlimited free time playing on it. As a result, the work/family people would still be behind the curve compared to the rest of the server.

The would reach 45 faster, but others would reach 75 faster. They would fall behind faster. The server situation would be the same they face now. NO, wait...I'm wrong. It would be WORSE because the 'unlimited time' types who jump to the relaxed server would probably tend to be the worst of their bunch, the ones who are so childish on the real servers that they cannot get along, the people who are the most likely to whine that things are too hard and expect an easy life would be attracted to relaxed servers.

I'll bet you a barrel of fish oil that the 'relaxed' servers would turn out to be the worst game experience possible in L2. Yes, those 'unlimited time, mega losers' probably are also the kind of people who would use the services of illegal program users the quickest (using daddy's credit, of course) so the 'relaxed' servers would find common problems with unmentionables even worse than real servers.

Sounds like H*ll to me!

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 07:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
lets say NCsoft changes the rules a little... botting & e-baying are now legal on kain, but not on bartz. how would you feel? I'm guessing you would be upset. I know I would be... sure it doesn't change the way bartz is run, but it cheapens the game.

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I think that your desire to play a game with substance is admirable and really speaks to your character.

Having said that, under your proposition, there would be many people on Bartz that would be very upset and some that wouldn't be.

EQ2 recently created servers where you could buy equipement and characters from other players. There was a bit of an uproar but it seems to have died down now. Now no one speaks of it yet those servers do still exist.

I bring that up because people sometimes believe that any radical change in the status quo will affect them badly. But sometimes it is only the illusion that it will affect them.

It might also sadden you to know that the NC Soft President is actually intrigued by the who "buy stuff for the mmo online" idea. I saw it in an interview once and I was "taken aback"

So even the creator of L2 is intrigued by the business idea of people buying equipment for characters.

That isn't very hardcore.

I think the idea of relaxed servers doesn't so much make it "easier" to get to high lvl content so much as it evens the playing field. There are players who will never be able to compete with the players who are ingame 8 hours per day.

So, they limit the time you can play and up the experience a bit so that you can still get the feeling you are making progress.

To make a more extreme example (and my ratios aren't correct but I hope you can get the idea), imagine if they made a server where you get 20x the experience and Adena. However... you can only play for 20 minutes per day. You would get the feeling that you were making strides but it would not be easier to get to that lvl 78 because 20 minutes per day is very confining.

in essence, that is what a relaxed server does. It evens the playing field so that players can only play the max 30 hours per (month?) and allows them a feeling that they are getting something for their time.

It really won't affect just like if NC decided to make an "exchange server" it won't affect you.

Torg

02-09-2006, 07:15 AM

Chimp hits a button repeatedly for 2 hours and receives a banana.
N00B

Chimp hits a button for 12 hours and receives 1/8th of a Banana.
HARDCORE!

That about sums your reasoning. Oh and the whole 'we had to do it so they have to do it' is the typical justification for hazing rituals. So despite what you say.. you're upset that you had to suffer so you want others to suffer as well.

Why would you be upset that they could do it on Kain and you're on Bartz? The only justification I can see for that argument is that you wish your character was on the easier server. If you had said that they did that to Bartz then I could kind of see you being upset because it changes the game you actually play. What you're arguing is equivalent to being upset about who takes the castles on Erica when you play on Bartz.

Balis

02-09-2006, 07:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because your just so freakin cool, Hieverybody!

Can I have your autograph? I mean, I know its too much for a lowly person like me, one not WORTHY of high end content because well....I dont worship this game nor do I use it to define my existance, but you do!

And that makes you just....the peachy-keen steen! :o

[/ QUOTE ]

are you still upset that I had to expain to you what is and is not taxable income?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh stop it! Lets get back on track and talk about the a Relaxed/No-pvp server.

****

I have a wife and kids and a 40+ hour 8-5 job. I am lucky that my wife allows me to play 2-3 hours a night, and a little more on weekends if nothing is going on. I for one would like to see a relaxed server like Korea has. With the 3rd class change I have no hope of being very competitive in PvP now, it was tough before as I was not 70+ yet.

An option for us working folk with limited time would be a nice addition. I am betting NA-NCsoft has market data on all this and decided to be a very nieche game type.....

Balis

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 07:23 AM

I understand you are saying Sov...

What I'm saying... (my numbers are wrong too...)

Player A: Regular searver: @ 8 hours a day: lvl 75 in 3 months.

Player B: Relaxed searver: @ 30 hours a week: lvl 75 in 3 months.

The thing is they spent a lot less time in game to accomplish the same thing. Sure they might have been playing for three months... but they were online... It is like that 1 person who claimed to be playing since prelude because he had an account back then... The 3 months isn't what's important... It's what you do in those 3 months.

As to it doesn't really effect me... well... that's just not true. It does. The people in EQ2 were right to raise hell about it. I wouldn't play a game that had an exchange searver. Would I stop playing l2 if they added a relaxed? No. But I will argue against it in every thread that I see about it...

Torg

02-09-2006, 07:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If there were a relaxed server (personally, I hope there never is) then it would still see a lot of people with unlimited free time playing on it. As a result, the work/family people would still be behind the curve compared to the rest of the server.

The would reach 45 faster, but others would reach 75 faster. They would fall behind faster. The server situation would be the same they face now. NO, wait...I'm wrong. It would be WORSE because the 'unlimited time' types who jump to the relaxed server would probably tend to be the worst of their bunch, the ones who are so childish on the real servers that they cannot get along, the people who are the most likely to whine that things are too hard and expect an easy life would be attracted to relaxed servers.

I'll bet you a barrel of fish oil that the 'relaxed' servers would turn out to be the worst game experience possible in L2. Yes, those 'unlimited time, mega losers' probably are also the kind of people who would use the services of illegal program users the quickest (using daddy's credit, of course) so the 'relaxed' servers would find common problems with unmentionables even worse than real servers.

Sounds like H*ll to me!

[/ QUOTE ]

Relaxed server has a 30 hour per week cap. Most of the people with far too much freetime wouldn't go there because they couldn't have such a large advantage over the playerbase. Yes, if they used all 30 hours each week they would advance faster then some of the curve but 30 hours per week is far easier to achieve then 60 for a larger percentage of the population.

The non-pvp server would indeed be a griefers paradise.

The people that don't actually level their own characters would remain on Hardcore where they retain the greatest advantage over legit players. That is what they really want after all. If its easier for others to level then that means that the majority of players will be able to reach the upper echelons of the game. That's not in the best interest of those that wish to gank/grief and dominate the game.

I don't think the game is too hard. In fact, its probably one of the simplest games that I've ever seen. It boils down to clicking repeatedly for extended periods of time. They even took out what little heavy clicking was required by automating shots. Its just too much of a time investment for a very poor payout. The drop tables don't help anything by offering virtually no motivation to hunt except for xp which returns the focus of the game to the level grind.

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 07:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chimp hits a button repeatedly for 2 hours and receives a banana.
N00B

Chimp hits a button for 12 hours and receives 1/8th of a Banana.
HARDCORE!

That about sums your reasoning. Oh and the whole 'we had to do it so they have to do it' is the typical justification for hazing rituals. So despite what you say.. you're upset that you had to suffer so you want others to suffer as well.

Why would you be upset that they could do it on Kain and you're on Bartz? The only justification I can see for that argument is that you wish your character was on the easier server. If you had said that they did that to Bartz then I could kind of see you being upset because it changes the game you actually play. What you're arguing is equivalent to being upset about who takes the castles on Erica when you play on Bartz.

[/ QUOTE ]

hazing can build fellowship and community within an organization... it also gives people the proper respect of those who came before... of course it can get out of hand... but so can a lot of things...

anyway... you didn't really say much... so I don't have much to respond to...

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 07:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand you are saying Sov...

What I'm saying... (my numbers are wrong too...)

Player A: Regular searver: @ 8 hours a day: lvl 75 in 3 months.

Player B: Relaxed searver: @ 30 hours a week: lvl 75 in 3 months.

The thing is they spent a lot less time in game to accomplish the same thing. Sure they might have been playing for three months... but they were online... It is like that 1 person who claimed to be playing since prelude because he had an account back then... The 3 months isn't what's important... It's what you do in those 3 months.

As to it doesn't really effect me... well... that's just not true. It does. The people in EQ2 were right to raise hell about it. I wouldn't play a game that had an exchange searver. Would I stop playing l2 if they added a relaxed? No. But I will argue against it in every thread that I see about it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's fair enough. I understand your point because what yu are saying is that the nature of the game is such that anyone who can get to the same point but with what would be considered less work is just not fair. And your example does make one pause to think.

It is my general thought that given the 30 hours per month but 30% raise in xp you might have the people on the relaxed server taking much longer anyways.

As far as affecting other people not on the relaxed server, here's a real life example.

Before this game I played Morrowind.. for about 2 years.. loved it. That's why I decided to seek an online game because I was looking for a similiar experience.

Anywhoo... my roomate put the game on his computer but he played on the easiest lvl. You essentially one hit everything. I was horrified that this is how he enjoyed playing as there was absolutely no challenge at all.

I however.. went to my game where I had the difficulty set to the maximum and enjoyed it regardless. So maybe it is just how we differently we perceive things.

Torg

02-09-2006, 07:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chimp hits a button repeatedly for 2 hours and receives a banana.
N00B

Chimp hits a button for 12 hours and receives 1/8th of a Banana.
HARDCORE!

That about sums your reasoning. Oh and the whole 'we had to do it so they have to do it' is the typical justification for hazing rituals. So despite what you say.. you're upset that you had to suffer so you want others to suffer as well.

Why would you be upset that they could do it on Kain and you're on Bartz? The only justification I can see for that argument is that you wish your character was on the easier server. If you had said that they did that to Bartz then I could kind of see you being upset because it changes the game you actually play. What you're arguing is equivalent to being upset about who takes the castles on Erica when you play on Bartz.

[/ QUOTE ]

hazing can build fellowship and community within an organization... it also gives people the proper respect of those who came before... of course it can get out of hand... but so can a lot of things...

anyway... you didn't really say much... so I don't have much to respond to...

[/ QUOTE ]

Your argument is still synonymous with being upset about who wins which castles on Erica when you play on Bartz. What's it matter what happens on another server?

Accomplishments mean different things on each server. So if one server was all 75's then 75 wouldn't mean as much on that server. The levels are really all about comparative power. What happens on the other servers is about as pertinent as what happens in another MMO.

The counterargument still boils down to 'I suffer so you suffer.'

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 07:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chimp hits a button repeatedly for 2 hours and receives a banana.
N00B

Chimp hits a button for 12 hours and receives 1/8th of a Banana.
HARDCORE!

That about sums your reasoning. Oh and the whole 'we had to do it so they have to do it' is the typical justification for hazing rituals. So despite what you say.. you're upset that you had to suffer so you want others to suffer as well.

Why would you be upset that they could do it on Kain and you're on Bartz? The only justification I can see for that argument is that you wish your character was on the easier server. If you had said that they did that to Bartz then I could kind of see you being upset because it changes the game you actually play. What you're arguing is equivalent to being upset about who takes the castles on Erica when you play on Bartz.

[/ QUOTE ]

hazing can build fellowship and community within an organization... it also gives people the proper respect of those who came before... of course it can get out of hand... but so can a lot of things...

anyway... you didn't really say much... so I don't have much to respond to...

[/ QUOTE ]

Your argument is still synonymous with being upset about who wins which castles on Erica when you play on Bartz. What's it matter what happens on another server?

Accomplishments mean different things on each server. So if one server was all 75's then 75 wouldn't mean as much on that server. The levels are really all about comparative power. What happens on the other servers is about as pertinent as what happens in another MMO.

The counterargument still boils down to 'I suffer so you suffer.'

[/ QUOTE ]

not quite true... in order to take the first castle on either searver you needed to defeat the same npcs... in order to get the lvls to do that... you need to go through the same grind.

on a relaxed searver. you don't go through the grind, but you get the reward. You get the same thing for doing less...

and for the record... i don't feel like i suffered through the lvls that I have gotten... I had fun getting everyone of them besides lvl 57 on my bd... only cause I heard... "you have fury?" waaaaay to often.

RumPunch

02-09-2006, 08:07 AM

I don't think it is the Game that makes people suffer, even though they may blame the game and even believe it themselves. I think it may be their personal outlook....the idea that life is miserable, they have it tough, and that complaining makes them seem smarter or more competent than they really are.

Happy, upbeat people enjoy life more! Grousing complainers are downers, no fun to date at all. Oh, I love the lady dwarf dance!

Torg

02-09-2006, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]

not quite true... in order to take the first castle on either searver you needed to defeat the same npcs... in order to get the lvls to do that... you need to go through the same grind.

on a relaxed searver. you don't go through the grind, but you get the reward. You get the same thing for doing less...

and for the record... i don't feel like i suffered through the lvls that I have gotten... I had fun getting everyone of them besides lvl 57 on my bd... only cause I heard... "you have fury?" waaaaay to often.

[/ QUOTE ]

You still have to outgrind other players to take the castle first.

Comparative power, still comes down to the fact that its a different server and they're reaping completely different rewards. If its that easy to level then the majority of the server should be right there with them.

The reward is having a level advantage over others. If everyone is levelling faster on that server then they really aren't getting the reward for less effort. It will still take more effort to stay ahead of the majority of the players. It doesn't matter what happens on other servers because its all about what happens within the server. If everyone was level 75 on Lionna and there was only 1 75 on Bartz. The level 75 on Bartz would reap a greater reward with the same effort just because everyone else on their server didn't try as hard.

Lord Chaos

02-09-2006, 08:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
botting & e-baying are now legal on kain, but not on bartz. how would you feel?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't change much though.

Zephro_Carnelian

02-09-2006, 08:24 AM

lol good luck selling any thing on a server like that

o ya owned

Torg

02-09-2006, 08:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it is the Game that makes people suffer, even though they may blame the game and even believe it themselves. I think it may be their personal outlook....the idea that life is miserable, they have it tough, and that complaining makes them seem smarter or more competent than they really are.

Happy, upbeat people enjoy life more! Grousing complainers are downers, no fun to date at all. Oh, I love the lady dwarf dance!

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't justify your opinion, huh? Yeah its rough when you don't have a counter argument but you feel the need to post anyway.

Asserting that people complain just because they're pessimists (and that intelligent people are always happy) basically shuts down any democratic system. Not that this is a democratic system but they claim that they want player input and people are letting them know how they feel. You are a distinct minority in the MMO community and you have to expect that there will be a large group of people that don't agree with your opinions on what constitutes a good game.
I don't think you want to get into what could be inferred about someone that wants to spent thousands of hours playing a game that offers minimal rewards and is based around destroying the chance of rewards for other players who are putting in similar amounts time.

Torg

02-09-2006, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it is the Game that makes people suffer, even though they may blame the game and even believe it themselves. I think it may be their personal outlook....the idea that life is miserable, they have it tough, and that complaining makes them seem smarter or more competent than they really are.

Happy, upbeat people enjoy life more! Grousing complainers are downers, no fun to date at all. Oh, I love the lady dwarf dance!

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't justify your opinion, huh? Yeah its rough when you don't have a counter argument but you feel the need to post anyway.

Asserting that people complain just because they're pessimists (and that intelligent people are always happy) basically shuts down any democratic system. Not that this is a democratic system but they claim that they want player input and people are letting them know how they feel. Anyone that enjoys this game is a distinct minority in the MMO community and they have to expect that there will be a large group of people that don't agree with their opinions on what constitutes a good game.

I don't think you want to get into what could be inferred about someone that wants to spent thousands of hours playing a game that offers minimal rewards and is based around destroying the chance of rewards for other players who are putting in similar amounts time.

RumPunch

02-09-2006, 08:40 AM

[quote
Asserting that people complain just because they're pessimists (and that intelligent people are always happy) .

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I never said that. Isn't that called the 'straw man' argument (in the list of invalid logical tactics)? You say you opponent said something that they didn't say, then criticise them based on what you said they said? We do see that a lot in politics.

Still, I expect that you are quite right, I don't see any point in arguing, I was off topic and apologize for that.

I also like to be in minorities in actions, life and arguments. Being similar to everyone else is overrated, IMHO.

Have fun in game and on the boards! (which was kinda my point anyhow). :)

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 08:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I never said that. Isn't that called the 'straw man' argument (in the list of invalid logical tactics)? You say you opponent said something that they didn't say, then criticise them based on what you said they said? We do see that a lot in politics.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a much better tactic than the bot/e-bay fallacy... Simply put anything and everything benefits and hurts bots/e-bayers.... therefore everything is either good or bad... exactly the same as the slipery slope fallacy...

back on topic...

RELAXED FTL!

Torg

02-09-2006, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I never said that. Isn't that called the 'straw man' argument (in the list of invalid logical tactics)? You say you opponent said something that they didn't say, then criticise them based on what you said they said? We do see that a lot in politics.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a much better tactic than the bot/e-bay fallacy... Simply put anything and everything benefits and hurts bots/e-bayers.... therefore everything is either good or bad... exactly the same as the slipery slope fallacy...

back on topic...

RELAXED FTL!

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't a straw man argument.
I used synonyms and logical deductions for everything that he said.

A person that is unhappy with life is a pessimist. If someone is attempting to appear intelligent then that infers that they are not in fact intelligent. If it was an actual straw man then it would have had to be something that was not said at all.

I don't really see what you're saying Hi. Much like every other one of your posts... you fail to make a point or provide any supporting information for your claims.

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 09:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

The non-pvp server would indeed be a griefers paradise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the ability to train was still in the game.

In some other games, the mobs only aggro on one person/party... when their timer is up, they are too far away from their area, or when they have killed the individual, they go back to their area.

So it is possible to make training impossible.

However.. if training was still ingame then yes.. a non pvp server (really a non-pk server) would be bad.

Torg

02-09-2006, 09:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The non-pvp server would indeed be a griefers paradise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the ability to train was still in the game.

In some other games, the mobs only aggro on one person/party... when their timer is up, they are too far away from their area, or when they have killed the individual, they go back to their area.

So it is possible to make training impossible.

However.. if training was still ingame then yes.. a non pvp server (really a non-pk server) would be bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This still doesn't protect from kill stealing but I agree that removing the ability to train would solve part of the problem.

Khaine_Erica

02-09-2006, 09:21 AM

If a relax server ever came to existance in US i would jump on that with a quickness.

Lineage made a "relaxed" server a few years back and guess what the "relaxed" server still going strong with a population 3 to 4 times larger then the "hardcore" servers. Why cause ppl would rather play a game where they dont have to spend 10+ hours a day to enjoy all the features of the game.

Balis

02-09-2006, 09:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If a relax server ever came to existance in US i would jump on that with a quickness.

Lineage made a "relaxed" server a few years back and guess what the "relaxed" server still going strong with a population 3 to 4 times larger then the "hardcore" servers. Why cause ppl would rather play a game where they dont have to spend 10+ hours a day to enjoy all the features of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet, there is hope yet!!!

Balis

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 09:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The non-pvp server would indeed be a griefers paradise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the ability to train was still in the game.

In some other games, the mobs only aggro on one person/party... when their timer is up, they are too far away from their area, or when they have killed the individual, they go back to their area.

So it is possible to make training impossible.

However.. if training was still ingame then yes.. a non pvp server (really a non-pk server) would be bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This still doesn't protect from kill stealing but I agree that removing the ability to train would solve part of the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point.

I don't know how they have implemented it in Korea. Other games allow for locked encounters and the choice to "unlock them".

I imagine that players going to a non-pk server would probably be of a different sort and you would find less grifing... or at least they would get bored after a while... but... I could be wrong.

EllieBelly

02-09-2006, 09:56 AM

I would too. With my play time exactly like what someone else that posted (married, kid, 9-5 job 2-3 hours a night sometimes more on weekends) I would change in an instant.

fluctuation

02-09-2006, 10:21 AM

I would be on a relaxed server in an instant. My gf plays with me and she gets bored sometimes with how slow things are going. We also both work 50+hours a week.
I really wish NCsoft would at least poll the community over this topic. I am sure it would the results would open their eyes a little.

Populater

02-09-2006, 10:26 AM

I like the Idea of a Relaxed server in NA. As long as NCSoft markets and advertises well, I'm positive it would draw in a significant amount of new subscribers.

As far as the Unfair advantage problem... well, some people will see it as a threat to "the way" they think the game is supposed to be. Or that the End content should be for those with enough free time to run a small company. Don't forget that there are tens of thousands of players that play on Private Servers that are experiencing End Content without having to spend Several months to get there. I'm not trying to compare the two, but my point is, NCSoft could grab a hefty chunk of new subscribers that merely don't have enough time to make this game enjoyable.

In the scheme of things, this game is about fun. If NCSoft can create "Fun" for a whole different Customer base, they only stand to gain in the end. And Honestly, how does Somebody elses fun on a different server affect anyone on a different server? Since "fun" is subjective, i'd be willing to bet that some who complain excessively about non-issues aren't having fun at all.

Balis

02-09-2006, 10:59 AM

I am going to go with a hunch that NCsoft left those in the log in screen on purpose.

1. It can't be that hard to delete that info, and to leave it in for the live servers? Something does not add up.
2. They said "There is no "relaxed"-type server currently available." They did not say the what I would expect them to say "There is no relaxed type server currently available and there are no plans as of current to open such a type of server"

I personally think they left it on there to spark some discussion on the topic. Kind-of like a leak to the press.

I would assume you take the cost of a server + support staff, and way it against the number of new users that they would need to break even. In any event it all comes down to money. I think RustNC and others need to think outside the box, but I give them uber credit for the C4 CDs and Fileplant download, so they are making progress!

What say you?

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

What say you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say no to relaxed searvers... and if they are created... instead of complaining on forums... I'll join the relaxed searver... spend 30 hours a week scamming and griefing in anyway possible... so people will be so frustrated they will move back to regular searvers (a place where i have never scammed once.)

Balis

02-09-2006, 11:14 AM

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am going to go with a hunch that NCsoft left those in the log in screen on purpose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree.. .or at least go so far as to say that they are certainly aware that it will cause questions.. even when it was on the PTS.

The problem is not whether or not the current playerbase would be interested in either type of alternative server but whether or not NON players (maybe even players who bought the game thinking "wow.. great premise") would come to the game (back to the game) if they made them.

Torg

02-09-2006, 11:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What say you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say no to relaxed searvers... and if they are created... instead of complaining on forums... I'll join the relaxed searver... spend 30 hours a week scamming and griefing in anyway possible... so people will be so frustrated they will move back to regular searvers (a place where i have never scammed once.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they move back? They'd just cancel their accounts. If you'll reference the other forums you'll note that scamming and griefing already exist in abundance on the regular servers so that's not a reason to move back.

This misguided threat seems to go back to the 'Others must suffer because I suffered' line of reasoning.

Balis

02-09-2006, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am going to go with a hunch that NCsoft left those in the log in screen on purpose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree.. .or at least go so far as to say that they are certainly aware that it will cause questions.. even when it was on the PTS.

The problem is not whether or not the current playerbase would be interested in either type of alternative server but whether or not NON players (maybe even players who bought the game thinking "wow.. great premise") would come to the game (back to the game) if they made them.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, maybe they think it would cut into the guild wars player market. Guild wars, and I have played it, gears itself for people with less time on there hands but want to be competitive.

30 hours a week? Hmm I could play 3.5 hours during the weekday no prob, that would leave me with about 6 hours saturday and sunday. I could very well come close to maxing out 30 hours each week, so I could stay with the "Power Gamers"

Question I have is, would 30 hours count for each toon, or the entire account. I would think each toon. Just thinking out loud.

Balis

Torg

02-09-2006, 11:27 AM

Populater

02-09-2006, 11:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What say you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say no to relaxed searvers... and if they are created... instead of complaining on forums... I'll join the relaxed searver... spend 30 hours a week scamming and griefing in anyway possible... so people will be so frustrated they will move back to regular searvers (a place where i have never scammed once.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Or.. they will just flat out quit.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this. If this was a common additude amongs the majority of the population, we would be guaranteeing our own doom. Why don't you take all that hatred and put it into something more productive. If you don't like this game, there are plenty more available. If you want to stress out on fairness in L2, then I fear that you are simply focusing on an Issue far less critical than all the other Balance issues and "Fairness" that is not present in this game.

I have a feeling that your problems go much deeper than the issue at hand.

Balis

02-09-2006, 11:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am going to go with a hunch that NCsoft left those in the log in screen on purpose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree.. .or at least go so far as to say that they are certainly aware that it will cause questions.. even when it was on the PTS.

The problem is not whether or not the current playerbase would be interested in either type of alternative server but whether or not NON players (maybe even players who bought the game thinking "wow.. great premise") would come to the game (back to the game) if they made them.

[/ QUOTE ]

They could always send out an email blast to the accounts that have been cancelled to take a poll to find out what that silent portion of the userbase thinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great Idea!!!

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What say you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say no to relaxed searvers... and if they are created... instead of complaining on forums... I'll join the relaxed searver... spend 30 hours a week scamming and griefing in anyway possible... so people will be so frustrated they will move back to regular searvers (a place where i have never scammed once.)

[/ QUOTE ]
wow.. I have no idea how to respond to that...

I say scam and grief because that is how you like to play. Not because others are enjoying themselves and you want to ruin it.

In any case, scamming and griefing are part of the game either way one looks at it.

I just can't subscribe to the idea that if one person wins then another person loses.. at least not in this case.

MaWomble

02-09-2006, 11:49 AM

I'd play on a relaxed server too...and like alot of folks that have responded I too have a family etc so it would suit me just fine.

And lets not forget that the amount of bonus exp/adena is quite small only 30% ontop of what you'd normally get, so leveling wouldn't be insanely fast.

Ma.

Balis

02-09-2006, 12:02 PM

I wish there was a way to motivate NCsoft into giving us a relaxed server, short of giving them more money. I admit there are games out there that would fit my time constrants better, but Lineage][ is by far, hands down the best game I have yet to play!

I am a customer, myself and others(new and returning) would like to see this. Maybe there is no budget left after the server upgrades, but please give it a serious thought and discussion NCsoft.

Idea, why not setup the PTS server like a relaxed server and see how people like it? Thats what the PTS is for right, test out this type of server ruleset and see if it could work!

Balis

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What say you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say no to relaxed searvers... and if they are created... instead of complaining on forums... I'll join the relaxed searver... spend 30 hours a week scamming and griefing in anyway possible... so people will be so frustrated they will move back to regular searvers (a place where i have never scammed once.)

[/ QUOTE ]
wow.. I have no idea how to respond to that...

I say scam and grief because that is how you like to play. Not because others are enjoying themselves and you want to ruin it.

In any case, scamming and griefing are part of the game either way one looks at it.

I just can't subscribe to the idea that if one person wins then another person loses.. at least not in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh i just wanted to liven this particular thread up a little :)

it was just the same thing... i would post something... torq would either not understand or misinterpet it... balis would say stuff i wasn't intrested in... you would come up with an argument niether for or against just kinda reasoning things out... it got old cause it was the same thing... figured it was my turn to do what I do best.... post something to upset people...

back to the discussion...

To torq: I don't think lvling in L2 is suffering. LOL if I thought that, I wouldn't play this game. However, L2 advertises itself as being a HARDCORE mmog. This is the reputation it has. I was talking to a random guy in a bar, and somehow mmogs got brought up. He played wow. I told him I played L2. He said he had never played it, but had heard it was hardcore. I like the idea that l2 is suppose to be a hardcore mmog. Relaxed searvers destroy that mystique. That has what I have been saying the entire time.

To Balis: /edit thinking of somebody elses sig... sry

To Sov: You are 7x. I doubt there is anyway in hell you would give that up to go to relaxed, and since you aren't against them... why are u in this thread? (That wasn't meant to sound harsh... I do enjoy reading you comments and you are about the only perosn on the forum who can understand an argumant, and gratz for that! But stop defending relaxed searver! I want you on my side! Thought I convinced you once... but you didn't stay long :) )

To everybody else: HELLO! <33333333

Torg

02-09-2006, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wish there was a way to motivate NCsoft into giving us a relaxed server, short of giving them more money. I admit there are games out there that would fit my time constrants better, but Lineage][ is by far, hands down the best game I have yet to play!

I am a customer, myself and others(new and returning) would like to see this. Maybe there is no budget left after the server upgrades, but please give it a serious thought and discussion NCsoft.

Idea, why not setup the PTS server like a relaxed server and see how people like it? Thats what the PTS is for right, test out this type of server ruleset and see if it could work!

Balis

[/ QUOTE ]

They know the server type works, they have them in Korea.

There's the first issue of cannibalization. How many people would just quit playing on the regular servers and move to the relax or non-pvp server? Could the regular servers handle losing a significant portion of their actual players if it turned out to be more popular then expected? Then there's the whole issue of how they would want to market it to try to bring new and old players back to the game.

It would be an interesting task but I think to a certain extent it could function on a 'if you build it they will come' level. MMO's are obviously very social and viral marketing works wonders. I have quite a few friends that ask for updates on the game even though they haven't played since prelude.

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 12:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To Sov: You are 7x. I doubt there is anyway in hell you would give that up to go to relaxed, and since you aren't against them... why are u in this thread? (That wasn't meant to sound harsh... I do enjoy reading you comments and you are about the only perosn on the forum who can understand an argumant, and gratz for that! But stop defending relaxed searver! I want you on my side! Thought I convinced you once... but you didn't stay long :) )

[/ QUOTE ]

You are 100% correct.. I would never go to a "relaxed" server. I like that it took me a long time to get in the 70's and that not everyone and their mothers will be alongside me.

No worries.. I took your comment in the spirit it was given :p

I am in this thread because I really am of the belief that each person is truly different. And I respect those differences.. I might not always like them but as long as they aren't illegal or homicidal they are valid.

Because of that I have no problems with people wanting/desiring different things.

Now... L2 is a more hardcore game and anyone playing it really needs to understand that. I sometimes have to roll my eyes when I see new players railing against being pk'ed and that they are just horrified by the scamming etc. If one reads any review one will find out that this game is not for the faint of heart.

Though I suppose that is partly NC's fault as they don't exactly spell that out on the box and most average players look at the cover art and say "cool.. sieges".

Having said all that, because we are all different, it is not surprising that given evidence of alternative types of servers there might be people who would prefer that type of playing... whether it is a non-pk server or a relaxed server. For the relaxed server I would say that some people's lives are such that if they can only spend an hour or 2 per day or every other day.. and even sometimes go a week without playing... then playing on the regular server can seem somewhat dissapointing. IF they can just put in there regular time and feel that they are making some headway then they might continue playing the game.

For the non-pk server I would say that many people want a more controlled play experience. Today I level, today I make money, today I get to pvp a bit. With an open system that is removed from you... you are at the mercy of anyone who decided that today they will be the Angel of Death and the time of cleansing is at hand.

Now.. some people love that LOVE that. I have a lot of respect for them because they are "balls to the walls" pvp'ers... harder the better.. they are probably wondering why they can't get looting and are probably ****** because they can't hurt players the way they used to with great xp loss.

I think we can all imagine that not everyone is like that. These people might like pvp experiences because they are more vibrant then pve. But if they are in the mood to spoil then that is all they want to do for their session.

By giving these players the options (that already exist) you keep a player base that will eventually leave when another game comes along that gives them the epic feel and experience that L2 has but that allows them to enjoy the content in a way that best reflects their situations.

The more people who pay to play the more money that NC gets... more money that NC gets the better the service, the quicker and richer the chronicles and the service...

it's win/win in my opinion and I like that a lot.

Torg

02-09-2006, 12:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]

it was just the same thing... i would post something... torq would either not understand or misinterpet it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I don't understand you. There's really not much to understand. You can't stand that others might have fun playing the game a different way and you feel that it somehow ruins your fun.

You want people to think you're hardcore because you play Lineage2. I didn't realize hardcore is a badge of honor and that stigma would still remain because those servers would still be available.

A 30% boost is not that much when you figure that the player loses 82% of the potential playtime. It would still take far longer then most other games on the market so the relaxed server is actually on a tighter schedule then the regular server. People have less time to waste finding groups, grinding easy mobs or playing slow levelling classes.

Populater

02-09-2006, 12:32 PM

A relaxed Server would not make the existing servers any less "Hardcore". It would merely be conforming to a broader customer base without affecting those who like it "hardcore". In other words, it would be smart business move. And you cannot deny that the idea has great potential for North American and European players.

After all, it is not Your game, or My game, or His game. It is NCSofts, and the big issue is appealing to a bigger audience to make more profits.

Khaine_Erica

02-09-2006, 12:38 PM

I would hope that it is 30 hours per account not toon.

if enough ppl left to play on another server they would have to merge that server with another.

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 12:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I don't understand you. There's really not much to understand. You can't stand that others might have fun playing the game a different way and you feel that it somehow ruins your fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes it does... i know how i feel... i obviously haven't expressed it clearly enough since that surely isn't it.

[ QUOTE ]

You want people to think you're hardcore because you play Lineage2. I didn't realize hardcore is a badge of honor and that stigma would still remain because those servers would still be available.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want a hardcore game. That means no relaxed imo. don't you get it? Haveing relaxed changes what the game is. I don't play bartz or kain or teon... I play Lineage 2. Haveing a relaxed part of it changes lineage 2.

[ QUOTE ]

A 30% boost is not that much when you figure that the player loses 82% of the potential playtime. It would still take far longer then most other games on the market so the relaxed server is actually on a tighter schedule then the regular server. People have less time to waste finding groups, grinding easy mobs or playing slow levelling classes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the last time i'm going to explain this... I don't care if you are 75 in 1 month or 1 year. As long as you played the same amount of time IN GAME!

Balis

02-09-2006, 12:45 PM

People are for it and against it.

I want to know what NCsoft thinks about diffrent server types?

:mad:
YOU might not be intrested in it, but others are.

Balis

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A relaxed Server would not make the existing servers any less "Hardcore". It would merely be conforming to a broader customer base without affecting those who like it "hardcore". In other words, it would be smart business move. And you cannot deny that the idea has great potential for North American and European players.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually that's exactly what it does. It allows people to play lineage 2 and reach endgame easier. does it appeal to a larger audiance? sure it does... NCsoft originally marketed this game as hardcore... they made it an alternative to wow type games... I don't think they should leave that behind.

[ QUOTE ]

After all, it is not Your game, or My game, or His game. It is NCSofts, and the big issue is appealing to a bigger audience to make more profits.

[/ QUOTE ]

then they shouldn't have marketed it as a hardcore game if they wanted it to apply to everybody...

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 12:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The more people who pay to play the more money that NC gets... more money that NC gets the better the service, the quicker and richer the chronicles and the service...

it's win/win in my opinion and I like that a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true... the more servers the more gm petitions... so the slower the feedback... longer maintenance time... same amount of staff working on more servers means things will get worse instead of better...

more profts doesn't always equal better service... and if NCsoft is the money hungry corporation that others in this thread are describing them as... they will not add more staff...

Torg

02-09-2006, 01:06 PM

Hi,

I understand you. You can repeat your case as much as you want and you won't suddenly start making sense. Your are being illogical and childish.

Lineage2 didn't market themselves as an alternative to WoW.
Lineage2 came first. WoW marketed themselves as an alternative to the established MMO market in general and then showed the rest of the developers that the market is enormous if you provide the right style of game.

I wouldn't blame NCSoft for rethinking their entire strategy for the North American/European market at this point because it's been proven just how wrong they were about what people in NA/Europe want. I remember reading when the game first came out that they believe that gaming was universal and that what sells in Korea would sell in the US.

This game wasn't marketed as hardcore... that's the name that the players gave it. I believe most are just patting themselves on the back and trying to justify how much time they spend on it.

If a person starts right now and puts the same amount of time into the game as you do, they would still reap less of a reward because they're that much farther behind the player base.

They've also added newbie buffs to allow new players to level faster (they level to 20 in virtually no time compared to how hard it was in Open Beta before they adjusted adena drops). You seem okay with this change as well.

Certain classes level faster in this game and those players spend less time then other players. Obvious discrepancy but I don't hear you complaining about that on the forums.

Those are just the valid ways that people are accomplishing more with less time. That doesn't even get into the less then EULA sanctioned methods used by some of the players.

And you're worried about what happens on a completely different server that doesn't impact the game that you play at all...

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The more people who pay to play the more money that NC gets... more money that NC gets the better the service, the quicker and richer the chronicles and the service...

it's win/win in my opinion and I like that a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true... the more servers the more gm petitions... so the slower the feedback... longer maintenance time... same amount of staff working on more servers means things will get worse instead of better...

more profts doesn't always equal better service... and if NCsoft is the money hungry corporation that others in this thread are describing them as... they will not add more staff...

[/ QUOTE ]

I made the statement with the idea that with more money coming in they could hire more people.. hence the better service. If it was just getting more money for "more money's" sake then of course not. But reinvesting increased funds could be the difference between a good play experience and a great play experience.

I think I do understand your position though. And I might understand where the disconnect comes in.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

What your biggest gripe is the fact that you believe that all a relaxed server does is add an easier version of the game which is essentially changing the original intent or idea of the game.

The disconnect is that whether or not you view 30 hours of play time as being a sufficient difference for the choice.

Or better put, if a player has the choice of whether or not to go to a relaxed server or the "hardcore" server, most players will go to the relaxed server because there really is not reason to go to the "hardcore". That essentially the idea of unlimited amount of play on a hardcore server is not sufficient enough to really be an enticement.

I wonder if it was 20 hours for relaxed or a greater cost per month if you would see it as an even trade off. The idea being that if a player was given the choice to play only 20 hours per week or have to pay more if they would take more time to evaluate their choice.

Then again it really might come down to the fact that the opposing viewpoints are so different that there really can't be a meeting of the minds. At least a meeting of the minds for some of the traditional players as those who want relaxed or alternate servers don't care about the traditional servers.

In the end.. It is in NC's hands.

Populater

02-09-2006, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
actually that's exactly what it does. It allows people to play lineage 2 and reach endgame easier. does it appeal to a larger audiance? sure it does... NCsoft originally marketed this game as hardcore... they made it an alternative to wow type games... I don't think they should leave that behind.

then they shouldn't have marketed it as a hardcore game if they wanted it to apply to everybody...

[/ QUOTE ]

You assume too much. The game was not marketed as a hardcore game at all. It is a reputation the players have put onto it. To assume you know what the actual intent or direction the company is taking is naive. It doesn't make business sense to accomodate the minority in expense of a healthy growing customer base. And you say it affects you, but it really only affects you psychologically. There is no real effect otherwise.

The way I see it, IF it draws in more new players, chances are they will try other servers as well. They may run out of time and have to create a no-limit character on one of the main servers. I know plenty of people that play on more than one server. The more players there are, the better the game tends to be.

VenomRaven

02-09-2006, 01:45 PM

/vote Non-Pvp server

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lineage II: The Chaotic Chronicle offers the worlds' elite MMO players a hardcore Player Vs. Player experience. Aden is no place for timid players - you'll need tenacity, endurance and cunning to survive.

[/ QUOTE ] -From Box

hmm... you both are right.. they don't advertise it as hardcore at all... and that is exactly the kind of thing that goes along with a relaxed server.... I was wrong... sry...

oh i'm being sarcastic

Esmera

02-09-2006, 01:53 PM

Populater

02-09-2006, 02:02 PM

Torg

02-09-2006, 02:07 PM

Torg

02-09-2006, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

"Lineage II: The Chaotic Chronicle offers the worlds' elite MMO players a endless mind-numbing grind. Aden is no place for bored players - you'll need caffeine, endurance and lots of time to survive."

But, I don't think it's as catchy or desirable.

[/ QUOTE ]

We shouldn't be too hard on him. He seems to think that this game is hard and requires skill. If it required so much skill there wouldn't be such huge issues with people being able to automate everything.

Sovrath

02-09-2006, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lineage II: The Chaotic Chronicle offers the worlds' elite MMO players a hardcore Player Vs. Player experience. Aden is no place for timid players - you'll need tenacity, endurance and cunning to survive.

[/ QUOTE ] -From Box

hmm... you both are right.. they don't advertise it as hardcore at all... and that is exactly the kind of thing that goes along with a relaxed server.... I was wrong... sry...

oh i'm being sarcastic

[/ QUOTE ]

I read the reviews (and the box) before I decided to play. I was fully aware of what could happen and what the gameplay would be like but I decided to try anyways. Was only going to play for about a week and then move on.

I was intrigued that I could move without effort (didn't like the controls in Shadowbane.. nor the graphics - oh.. I tried shadowbane for 10 minutes) and though I felt a bit shy about grouping, actually grouped with someone for 20.

Met a lvl 20 player.. thought he was like a god with his massive power.

Then I saw Dark Elf Village with it's dark gothic style and that hand reaching up toward the heavens. That was when I was hooked.

Being able to get vengeance on my first pk'er also helped.

However... even though I was hooked, there were things I "put up with" because I had no choice. The idea that players are also "putting up" with things and that some of them might not have to because NC could add alternate servers seems to me a good business decision.

And as I've said before, if the only reason people don't want these servers is because they are afraid that players will flock to them, well.. those players will leave sooner or later. They will eventually get tired of it all and go.

Seems to me that keeping players who want to be here but for a few "items of concern" would be in NC Soft's interest.

Here is a thought.

Would you have a problem with a "Hardcore Server"? By this I mean that it could be open pvp "everywhere" and that corpses could be looted? (maybe a pk in town would get higher karma or something).

Because that would be an alternate rules server that I bet a lot of our accomplished pvp betheren would be up to.

And if you are for it then wouldn't that also be an argument for different playstyles?

And if you aren't for it then are we really playing a game that could be "more hardcore"?

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lineage II: The Chaotic Chronicle offers the worlds' elite MMO players a hardcore Player Vs. Player experience. Aden is no place for timid players - you'll need tenacity, endurance and cunning to survive.

[/ QUOTE ] -From Box

hmm... you both are right.. they don't advertise it as hardcore at all... and that is exactly the kind of thing that goes along with a relaxed server.... I was wrong... sry...

oh i'm being sarcastic

[/ QUOTE ]

Before you start working on mastering sarcasm you might want to work on reading comprehension.

Hardcore PVP and Hardcore Timesink are not the same thing.
The people in favor of a relax server with the timecap are looking to be able to compete with people that have a similar amount of time available to play. This does not make the PVP any less hardcore and in actuality would be even more hardcore because the loser would not just be losing their invested time they'd be losing a greater portion of their total potential playtime on the relaxed server compared to the regular servers.

[/ QUOTE ]

my comprehension is just fine... and my deduction are eqaul to that of holms my dear torg....

hmm... hardcore pvp... when you die you lose 4% exp.... well at 75 in a great group that is 4 hours of grinding in a great party (c3 stats don't know about c4 yet)

now... on a relaxed... if you lose 4% that is no longer 4 hours of exp. makeing pvp not as hardcore... hmm... see how that works?

Populater

02-09-2006, 05:42 PM

Yes 4% is heavy loss on a normal server. However you're disregarding the flip side of the coin. A relaxed server is only 30% increase in Xp gained so at lvl 75 if one death is equal to 4 hours, then a relaxed is going to be approximately 3 hours. However the main servers, the potential grinding time is 5.6 Times that of the relaxed. So it will be harder to get back the lost experience.

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes 4% is heavy loss on a normal server. However you're disregarding the flip side of the coin. A relaxed server is only 30% increase in Xp gained so at lvl 75 if one death is equal to 4 hours, then a relaxed is going to be approximately 3 hours. However the main servers, the potential grinding time is 5.6 Times that of the relaxed. So it will be harder to get back the lost experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

nah... cause the argument is that only people who can play 30 hours a week would play it... so it ins't harder to get it back at all....

Populater

02-09-2006, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
nah... cause the argument is that only people who can play 30 hours a week would play it... so it ins't harder to get it back at all....

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that's the argument at all. Surely those with 30 hours or less a week to play would prefer this server. Certainly the 30 hour cap is a limitation and cannot be ignored as a variable for equalization. Personally at 30% increase I would stay on the live server for the majority of my playtime. Either way I think the penalties for PvP on both types of servers can be seen as "Hardcore"

The argument as I see it was initially whether a relaxed server affects you or I and to what extent. I'm sticking to it being a great Idea even if you or I will never play on it. I think it makes perfect sense to accomodate a large NA and EU playerbase. The minor personal issues are trivial in comparison to the monetary benefits.

Torg

02-09-2006, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

my comprehension is just fine... and my deduction are eqaul to that of holms my dear torg....

hmm... hardcore pvp... when you die you lose 4% exp.... well at 75 in a great group that is 4 hours of grinding in a great party (c3 stats don't know about c4 yet)

now... on a relaxed... if you lose 4% that is no longer 4 hours of exp. makeing pvp not as hardcore... hmm... see how that works?

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You thought that out all by yourself, huh?

It'd only take 30% less time which would be 2.8 hours. Which would be almost 10% of their total available time to play and that's with just 1 death. Now on live.. you have a total of 168 hours to play. That would mean that you have lost 2% of your total available time to play.

So dieing on a relaxed server means you've lost far more of your available time to accomplish anything other then regaining what you've lost. See how that works?

It'll be far harder to advance on relaxed then it will be on live because relatively minor setbacks on the normal server could potentially prevent a player from advancing for an entire week.

Do you need me to go slower for you?

HIeverybody

02-09-2006, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

my comprehension is just fine... and my deduction are eqaul to that of holms my dear torg....

hmm... hardcore pvp... when you die you lose 4% exp.... well at 75 in a great group that is 4 hours of grinding in a great party (c3 stats don't know about c4 yet)

now... on a relaxed... if you lose 4% that is no longer 4 hours of exp. makeing pvp not as hardcore... hmm... see how that works?

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You thought that out all by yourself, huh?

It'd only take 30% less time which would be 2.8 hours. Which would be almost 10% of their total available time to play and that's with just 1 death. Now on live.. you have a total of 168 hours to play. That would mean that you have lost 2% of your total available time to play.

So dieing on a relaxed server means you've lost far more of your available time to accomplish anything other then regaining what you've lost. See how that works?

It'll be far harder to advance on relaxed then it will be on live because relatively minor setbacks on the normal server could potentially prevent a player from advancing for an entire week.

Do you need me to go slower for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

you are going too slow... every thing you have said was said 2 posts back... do you want me to explain again y this argument is flawed?

Torg

02-09-2006, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]

you are going too slow... every thing you have said was said 2 posts back... do you want me to explain again y this argument is flawed?

[/ QUOTE ]

The argument isn't flawed just because you don't understand the math.

Enjoy the game and the decreasing playerbase, there's no point in arguing with you because you can't construct an argument, can't spell and don't understand math. This is like trying to explain things to a toddler. A pretty pointless endeavor.

RumPunch

02-10-2006, 06:33 AM

Just curious, Torq. Why do you start each post with an insult of the person you are replying to? Do you think that this makes your posts more appealing or accepted? Does it convince the person you insulted to your point of view? What are you trying to accomplish?

Just curious, thanks. :)

Wyzeguy

02-10-2006, 07:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you trying to accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. This thread is almost to a flamey.

And it's about something that doesn't exist.

Mistryl

02-10-2006, 08:08 AM

Please focus the debate on the suggestion of a "relaxed" server rather than attacking the person giving their opinion. Thanks!

Wyzeguy

02-10-2006, 08:20 AM

Yes Ma'am :o (wow, my first public scolding, and it came from Mistryl)

I like the idea of a relaxed server, particularly for my son.

He has a budgetted amount of "screen-time" that he is allowed. Level 20 is tough for him, as in 'a couple of weeks.' Siege-able level is impossible.

I understand some people don't think he should be allowed a server where he might get high enough to hunt more areas than just the south-west part of the map.

As it is, he's better off spending his screen-time on faster-paced games.

Mistryl

02-10-2006, 08:23 AM

The warning was directed at the entire thread, Wyzeguy -- I didn't intend to single you out. :)

Sovrath

02-10-2006, 08:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes Ma'am :o (wow, my first public scolding, and it came from Mistryl)

I like the idea of a relaxed server, particularly for my son.

He has a budgetted amount of "screen-time" that he is allowed. Level 20 is tough for him, as in 'a couple of weeks.' Siege-able level is impossible.

I understand some people don't think he should be allowed a server where he might get high enough to hunt more areas than just the south-west part of the map.

As it is, he's better off spending his screen-time on faster-paced games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think she was scolding you, just tagging on to the last post.

You bring up a good point for having a relaxed or non-pk server... the kids... I am floored as to how many people who play have children who play (in my day parents didn't play video games but they would tell us stories about how they walked to school, uphill, both ways!)

One of my ex-clannies made a toon called "Boo-Bear" for his 4 year old. His child loved killing things and would just get the greatest pleasure grinding on mobs... xp didn't matter to him so he just moved his little warrior from one mob to another. Until the day he got pk'ed and wasn't amused.

That's when his daddy exacted parental revenge.

In any case, the art design of this game is just so magnificent that it is bound to attract people just on those merits alone. In my opinion this is just one of the best looking games out there with regards to the art.. Guildwars being the other one... so the idea for allowing players who are not hardcore players or pvp'ers to enjoy this game in another way seems to me to be a "good thing".

I don't subscribe to the idea that people on other servers will be cheated PROVIDED the gameplay is significanlty different.

The servers seem to have grown in population.. why not just capitalize on all of this and add the servers with the next Chronicle. I bet you would get a huge influx of players who always wanted to play but just couldn't spend the time or get into the open pvp.

Wyzeguy

02-10-2006, 08:57 AM

So much of the gaming industry is on branding and endless sequels. Even more than movies for teen and tween boys, the loyalty to vid games is incredible.

FF-X howmany?
Tekken1, 2, 3, 4, ...
DoA 1, 2, 3, 4
Zelda bazillion
Mario-whole-universe

The way to success is put out games with numbers after them and repeated warcraft words. My son picked out some games at Christmas. Every single one was a sequel.

It would really behoove NCSoft to try to get the younger players, cuz the only way to be sure they try Lineage345 is to get them started on 1 or 2.

The current game gets the current kind of mmog players. It appears what WoW (and EQ1 before WoW) is doing is getting not just marketshare from current players, but expanding the market. How many lin2 players have you met that this is their first mmog?

Esmera

02-10-2006, 09:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How many lin2 players have you met that this is their first mmog?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm one.

Well unless you count Guild Wars, but Guild Wars isn't a traditional MMO.

HIeverybody

02-10-2006, 09:03 AM

Ashka

02-10-2006, 09:05 AM

Also my first.

Anyway
I like the pvp.. but the idea of a relaxed server is cool. I dont know if I would lvl two chars myself, but I know a lot of ppl that would love o do it.

Sovrath

02-10-2006, 09:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How many lin2 players have you met that this is their first mmog?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm one.

Well unless you count Guild Wars, but Guild Wars isn't a traditional MMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my first MMO. I tried Shadowbane for 10 minutes.

I've since tried most of the other games out there for a few days or in 2 cases, since I know people who play WoW and EQ2 I have made characters so that they didn't have to lvl alone.

There are things I like about those games that I don't like about L2 but the Art design, fighting animations and the completely "Epic" feel of L2 makes it so that until a game comes out that offers me more of what I'm looking for, I will be here.

Skeatisher

02-10-2006, 09:16 AM

For starters, this is my first mmo...been off and on since c1, have tried others...didn't like at all :mad:

On the topic of a relaxed server.....I love the idea, first of all it would be a new server (a good idea in itself), plus it evens the playing field, ppl who don't have 60+ hours a week to game will still have a fighting chance. Not trying to start flames, but if you disagree....your opinion is wasted...stay on reg servers. Anyone who doesn't like the idea of a relaxed server, feels so because they have tons of time to spend gaming, which gives them an upperhand. I don't think that's unfair...that's how it's designed, more time=more rewards. But like the previous poster basically said: kids play games And kids don't have 60+ hours a week to game

Wyzeguy

02-10-2006, 09:18 AM

LoL 3 of you are ready to go to senate hearings!

Of course you're my first love.

I thought I was in love a time or 2 before, but that was long before I met ya. Now I'm sure I won't forget ya.

----------------------------
Like a virgin

HIeverybody

02-10-2006, 09:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
LoL 3 of you are ready to go to senate hearings!

Of course you're my first love.

I thought I was in love a time or 2 before, but that was long before I met ya. Now I'm sure I won't forget ya.

----------------------------
Like a virgin

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

Sovrath

02-10-2006, 09:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But like the previous poster basically said: kids play games And kids don't have 60+ hours a week to game

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I want children, but IF I did, they would NOT be spending 60+ hours a week playing Video games!!!

sinaj

02-10-2006, 09:32 AM

IMO, gamers either love or hate L2. Those that love it, stay on and enjoy the hardcore game experience. Those that don't - quit. They might quit because of the grind or because they don't want to pay $15 a month to have other players control their gameplay (although there are people in the world who pay good money to be abused! lol!).

Those that leave rarely, if ever, come back. No amount of new hunting grounds or eye candy will make them like the game mechanics, because the grind will still be there, and so will the possibily of not controlling your gaming dollar.

Offering new server options could bring new players and previous players back to the game.

Ashka

02-10-2006, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Those that leave rarely, if ever, come back. No amount of new hunting grounds or eye candy will make them like the game mechanics, because the grind will still be there, and so will the possibily of not controlling your gaming dollar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah
thats not true
Ive seen ppl leaving for a lot of games.. then they just come back to l2. Even they cant say why - but, IMO, l2 is still the more rewarding game out there...

Khaine_Erica

02-10-2006, 09:54 AM

in lineage when they introduced a new "relaxed" server (it was more of customized server than relaxed) many players left thier old "hardcore" servers to play that one. The only problem that happened with that situation was that as old players left the game and new players joined the old "hardcore" servers never got any newbies. They all went to the "relaxed" server. (cant really blame them), but that can be solved by consolidating the original servers as thier population dwindles to a set number. The reason being ppl that dont leave thier respective servers for the new ones shouldnt suffer from not getting to play on a ghost town server, like the lineage players are doing as of today.

I think Mistryl knows this since she was the lineage board monitor for quite a bit of time ;)

dylanhart

02-10-2006, 10:04 AM

i hear rhat the "relaxed" server is not comming to the north american servers only in korea :(

Elrohir

02-10-2006, 10:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i hear rhat the "relaxed" server is not comming to the north american servers

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope.

sinaj

02-10-2006, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Those that leave rarely, if ever, come back. No amount of new hunting grounds or eye candy will make them like the game mechanics, because the grind will still be there, and so will the possibily of not controlling your gaming dollar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah
thats not true
Ive seen ppl leaving for a lot of games.. then they just come back to l2. Even they cant say why - but, IMO, l2 is still the more rewarding game out there...

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have stated that was my personal experience. When L2 first came out in the US, 18 real life friends and I started playing. 16 of them quit by the time they hit their lvl 30s and never came back. These folks have played many different MMOs and came from different MMO backgrounds. The main reason for most of them was that it was the biggest time-sink they have played. And they weren't talking just about the grind, but the excessive running (running to hunt, running to quest, running to get back to the spot you were PKed at...) and how the PvP aspect could set you back to have to re-earn the adena if you lost something. One guy told me he didn't want "to pay $15 to be at the whim of kids trying to be uber". For the price he paid he wanted to be in control of how his time would be spent gaming. It was his money and he didn't want to have some PKer hanging out in EG dictating how his play session would go, so he quit. That seemed to be the overall concenses I was hearing from my friends. I'm not trying to say they are right or wrong, but I can see their point.

Torg

02-10-2006, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I should have stated that was my personal experience. When L2 first came out in the US, 18 real life friends and I started playing. 16 of them quit by the time they hit their lvl 30s and never came back. These folks have played many different MMOs and came from different MMO backgrounds. The main reason for most of them was that it was the biggest time-sink they have played. And they weren't talking just about the grind, but the excessive running (running to hunt, running to quest, running to get back to the spot you were PKed at...) and how the PvP aspect could set you back to have to re-earn the adena if you lost something. One guy told me he didn't want "to pay $15 to be at the whim of kids trying to be uber". For the price he paid he wanted to be in control of how his time would be spent gaming. It was his money and he didn't want to have some PKer hanging out in EG dictating how his play session would go, so he quit. That seemed to be the overall concenses I was hearing from my friends. I'm not trying to say they are right or wrong, but I can see their point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a similar experience. I started with 12 RL friends that didn't make it past prelude. Lineage 2 was my first MMO so most of my friends' basic response to me enjoying it was 'You just don't know any better'.

Since I quit Lineage2, I've tried a number of other MMO's and I find that I like bits and pieces of each but I miss the graphical style of Lineage2 and the open conflict system where I'm not forced to be friends with certain people just because we made characters on the same team.

I keep hoping they localize the game and push it towards its original PVP philosophy.
- Balance the classes around PVP
- Make it possible for more players to reach the end game levels to be competitive in pvp (postponing or removing xp walls)
- Increase material/item drop rates to make hunting more rewarding and take the economy away from the farmers

If they altered the game to follow the newer MMO design philosophies while retaining the art resources and style then renamed it 'Ancestry 2' and sold it in a retail box for $40. I'd buy it. Best of all it wouldn't ruin the fun for all of the Lineage 2 players because it'd be a completely different game.

Morgase

02-10-2006, 01:21 PM

This is also my 1st mmog, however I have been here sence beta and I'll be here till I die. Prior to l2 I spent all my time on MUD's......multi player games that are nothing biut words (god I still love the old MUD's)

Muds were the 1st mmog games before there was even an internet. We used to play on dialup to private computers that had 1-3 phone lines with 2400 baud modems and it was exciting to just play with another person. I still go play some of the MUD's when I am bored......it was fun for us oldtimers.

Fowyn

02-11-2006, 06:52 AM

The wrong server descriptons were there from day 1 of PTS. I am wondering why no one reported it???

sinaj

02-13-2006, 03:45 PM

Oh it was reported all right, and there was much discussion in the PTS C4 forums about the Relaxed server (higher rates / limited playing time) and the Non-PvP server (non PvP, but still sieges, arena, clan wars and all that other good stuff).

They are actually Korean servers and all the information was translated to english.

Why after all the heated discussion among the PTS testers did all that text and info still make it to live? Your guess is as good as mine. I'm hoping it's along the lines of seeing our reactions, rather than sloppy work on their part. Because if it's due to sloppy work, well then we all know where the future of the game is going.

Xanthus_

02-14-2006, 10:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of a relaxed server, particularly for my son.

He has a budgetted amount of "screen-time" that he is allowed. Level 20 is tough for him, as in 'a couple of weeks.' Siege-able level is impossible.

I understand some people don't think he should be allowed a server where he might get high enough to hunt more areas than just the south-west part of the map.

As it is, he's better off spending his screen-time on faster-paced games.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, you have all the time you need to play L2, but you make your son budget his time, and therefore unable to enjoy his game of choice?

Parental Hypocrisy++ :D

sinaj

02-14-2006, 12:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of a relaxed server, particularly for my son.

He has a budgetted amount of "screen-time" that he is allowed. Level 20 is tough for him, as in 'a couple of weeks.' Siege-able level is impossible.

I understand some people don't think he should be allowed a server where he might get high enough to hunt more areas than just the south-west part of the map.

As it is, he's better off spending his screen-time on faster-paced games.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, you have all the time you need to play L2, but you make your son budget his time, and therefore unable to enjoy his game of choice?

Parental Hypocrisy++ :D

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be that the parent would prefer that school work, chores, and family time took priority over game time - thus limiting his son's playing time. Nothing wrong with a parent not wanting their child to become a lump of nothing that games every waking hour. :p

Sovrath

02-14-2006, 12:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of a relaxed server, particularly for my son.

He has a budgetted amount of "screen-time" that he is allowed. Level 20 is tough for him, as in 'a couple of weeks.' Siege-able level is impossible.

I understand some people don't think he should be allowed a server where he might get high enough to hunt more areas than just the south-west part of the map.

As it is, he's better off spending his screen-time on faster-paced games.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, you have all the time you need to play L2, but you make your son budget his time, and therefore unable to enjoy his game of choice?

Parental Hypocrisy++ :D

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be that the parent would prefer that school work, chores, and family time took priority over game time - thus limiting his son's playing time. Nothing wrong with a parent not wanting their child to become a lump of nothing that games every waking hour. :p

[/ QUOTE ]

I was essentialy going to write the same thing... creating boundaries and rules = loving your kids.

Xanthus_

02-14-2006, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of a relaxed server, particularly for my son.

He has a budgetted amount of "screen-time" that he is allowed. Level 20 is tough for him, as in 'a couple of weeks.' Siege-able level is impossible.

I understand some people don't think he should be allowed a server where he might get high enough to hunt more areas than just the south-west part of the map.

As it is, he's better off spending his screen-time on faster-paced games.

[/ QUOTE ]

So wait, you have all the time you need to play L2, but you make your son budget his time, and therefore unable to enjoy his game of choice?

Parental Hypocrisy++ :D

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be that the parent would prefer that school work, chores, and family time took priority over game time - thus limiting his son's playing time. Nothing wrong with a parent not wanting their child to become a lump of nothing that games every waking hour. :p

[/ QUOTE ]

I was essentialy going to write the same thing... creating boundaries and rules = loving your kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Creating rules which you yourself cannot or will not follow = hypocrisy. It's the very definition of the word. If you think that the level of gaming you are putting into L2 is unhealther for your child...it's probably unhealthy for you as well. :)

Elrohir

02-14-2006, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Creating rules which you yourself cannot or will not follow = hypocrisy. It's the very definition of the word. If you think that the level of gaming you are putting into L2 is unhealther for your child...it's probably unhealthy for you as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not necessarily. If I had a ten-year old, I would tell him not to drive a car or drink alcohol or have sex with mommy... If I do so, it's not hypocricy.

Sovrath

02-14-2006, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Creating rules which you yourself cannot or will not follow = hypocrisy. It's the very definition of the word. If you think that the level of gaming you are putting into L2 is unhealther for your child...it's probably unhealthy for you as well. :)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Xanthus.. believe it or not, it doesn't work that way. Though I can see why you say that.

I'm a 38 year old man with some living under my belt. I have (or a believe I have) developed the skills needed to evaluate and balance my life so that I can do what I want/need to do at any given time and find a balance in doing so.

If I spend an entire weekend playing L2 I might not play at all for a few days and instead tend to items in my life that I deem to be more important or just necessary.

However... a younger person might not have developed these skills or might need to learn balance, to learn thrift, when to "buckle down" etc.

Don't believe me?

I look back at the 18 year old me, when I thought that I knew everything and I had all the answers and what do I see? A young well meaning kid who really had no clue.

However... I am talking about teaching children how to manage their time and lives.

Where I would agree with you is telling your child not to smoke, take drugs, gamble with the mortgage, or any number of actions which could be construed as being unhealthy but yet you as a parent do it.

That would be hypocrisy. Either smoking is bad for you or not. Either gambling with the mortgage is too risky or not.

Now.. in game terms.. if I was to spend all my time in game and not do anything else at all YET tell my child not to do that sure. But since I can spend massive amounts of time in game and then choose not to for great lengths of time will show that I can make priorities.

It can be hard for younger people to learn that. And quite frankly... most "normal" adults might look at any gametime as being unhealthy as I should be out being an adult and mowing my lawn and joining the Rotary club (or whatever).

In any case... it is a parents responsibility to make sure their kids have coping skills. And I suppose it is a childs way to believe that his/her parents are full of *insert expletive here*.

However ... if they ever come to realize that the parent was right and was just trying to teach them valid skills and insight... well that is the real reward.

My last girlfriend once told me that if it wasn't for her parents being super super strict with her (and her hating them of course) she would probably have ended up in an alley clutching a bottle to her body.

sinaj

02-14-2006, 01:59 PM

Xanthus_

02-14-2006, 08:15 PM

No, obviously there's exceptions to any rule...including that one...but comparing video gaming to drinking, driving and smoking underage is a little alarmist.

I'm also not saying that children should not be regulated. They should indeed be regulated. But many parents seem to equate regulation and discipline with whimsical rules. Saddly, many more parents seem to do much of nothing at all. Gladly none of you seem to fit into that horrible vein so far.

If it's ok for you to spend a few hours a day (2-3 before bed) on Lineage2 and mabye a weekend once in a while, this being more than adequate amounts of time to enjoy and excell in this games, then why shouldn't this be ok for your children?

You may cite the corrosive effects of video games on children, but I challenge any of you to find just one UNBIASED study that shows any negative side-effects correllated with video game play then my whole argument is moot. In fact most studies show that video games such as Lineage2 encourage hand-eye coordination, familiarity with computers and teamwork. All good qualities for any well-rounded adult. :D