Lethal Blow... not to Lethal?

[PrivatePancak3s]

First off... i'd like to ask the GM's on general discussion as they seem to be so busy in game...
Is lethal blow broke or what? I mean even the message i recieved when i landed superior damage doesnt make sence.. and when i land superior damage .. it barely does more damage than a normal deadly blow.. whats going on here?
Bugged or what? (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9224/shot00021110yg.jpg)

[SlyCutter]

lethal shot has not one time landed for me NOT ONCE.

Tried in pvp and on mobs ive counted and used it 500 times and not one time has it one shot killed anything its just like a slightly (and i mean slightly) more powerful double shot with a different animation.

[PrivatePancak3s]

landing isnt the issue.. it lands.. but it doesnt work...

and the archer version (lethal shot) i herd barely has a landing rate :P

[Belophan]

seems like it only take away all ur CP.. + some HP if they have less CP than the dmg u do..

[SlyCutter]

what they should of done with it made it like the nukers vortex spells.

Upon successfully landing lowers resistance to arrows that would be good against fighting tanks etc but what we have is utterly useless and same with dagger lower resistance to daggers u know how cool that be?

Might actually have a chance against a nuker hitting me on a regular hit with 1200 mdef for 3400 >.<

[Bhodosativa]

Good. Why the [censored] should you need to be allowed to one shot people anyways. Be happy with erasing CP.

[Runaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Good. Why the [censored] should you need to be allowed to one shot people anyways. Be happy with erasing CP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nuker critical = one-shot death. How is this any different?

[Bhodosativa]

The diffrence is nuker critical doesnt = one shot death, and the chances of actually getting a crit are 1-3 per hour with constant spellcasting.

[zzzZZZzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
The diffrence is nuker critical doesnt = one shot death, and the chances of actually getting a crit are 1-3 per hour with constant spellcasting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't really seem to be the case with Wild Magic. And yeah, it doesn't = one shot kill on all people, for some classes with lots of HP it = two shot death!! (sarcasm aside, a magic crit pretty much = instant loss irregardless of if it kills on the nuke that crits or on the following few that finish the player off - so yes, a crit = "instant" death) Yeah it doesn't happen _all_ the time, but it also does happen _often enough_ that it's noteworthy.

[Taraza]

I have not yet met a nuker who could one shot me with critical magic even. 70+ SHs crit me for like 3200, with proper buffs I have roughly 9.3k HP and 2.1K CP. I'm still in BO jewelery :p. Its called a SWORD SINGER, use and abuse them.

[zzzZZZzzz]

Because we all have 2nd, 3rd or 4th accounts just to have a sws and we are perfectly willing to waste the mp on elemental resist songs in lieu of earth, wind, vit, or hunter. And yeah, it's perfectly normal to have 9k HP 2k CP. My bad.

Yeah I can party with a sws at all times but you know what? That's just not practical and doesnt happen for most anyone in the game.

[Taraza]

[ QUOTE ]
Because we all have 2nd, 3rd or 4th accounts just to have a sws and we are perfectly willing to waste the mp on elemental resist songs in lieu of earth, wind, vit, or hunter. And yeah, it's perfectly normal to have 9k HP 2k CP. My bad.

Yeah I can party with a sws at all times but you know what? That's just not practical and doesnt happen for most anyone in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

two boxing Prophets is stupid. In PvP they are great for melee support because they can root enemies. And I feel sorry for you if you don't have access to Prophets and SwS but again, thats not a game design issue, its a PLAYER issue. Players penalize themselves for being ignorant to how much certain classes help and how they can EASILY shift balance between classes in PvP. Go find some Prophets and SwSs, they are out there and some are clanless. Or get someone to consider subclassing one. They are NOT bad classes and there are so many misconceptions of some classes that its ridiculous

[Torqq]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good. Why the [censored] should you need to be allowed to one shot people anyways. Be happy with erasing CP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nuker critical = one-shot death. How is this any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are overpowered classes, so what does it matter?

[Torqq]

I think the chance to instantly kill the target should be raised to 98%. That should make all the weak archer classess useful for a change.

[Taraza]

lol, archers are the strongest class in the game. Frail and weak nukers got nothing on them.

[Durz]

[ QUOTE ]
I have not yet met a nuker who could one shot me with critical magic even. 70+ SHs crit me for like 3200, with proper buffs I have roughly 9.3k HP and 2.1K CP. I'm still in BO jewelery :p. Its called a SWORD SINGER, use and abuse them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Swordsingers all the way (maybe prophets are better ^^)

[ciprian]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, archers are the strongest class in the game. Frail and weak nukers got nothing on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are either a troll or completely ignorant

[Taraza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol, archers are the strongest class in the game. Frail and weak nukers got nothing on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are either a troll or completely ignorant

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a troll but certainly not ignorant to the fact of how weak and brittle nukers are :p. With corct buffs nukers do not stand a chance against archers, simple as that.

[Champa]

I'm inclined to agree with Taraza, since the archers in his/her parties will most likely always have song of hunter = pretty lethal for robe bearers. Crits for nukers is like "Woot look at me I got a crit!" - Not saying it's all that unusual - it's on par with tyrants :p

[Taraza]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm inclined to agree with Taraza, since the archers in his/her parties will most likely always have song of hunter = pretty lethal for robe bearers. Crits for nukers is like "Woot look at me I got a crit!" - Not saying it's all that unusual - it's on par with tyrants :p

[/ QUOTE ]

Let us not forget songs that cut nuke damage in half :p

[Taraza]

I also must mention that once Tyrants get Bison Totem their crit rate can reach like 300 with Song of Hunter

[Champa]

That is true, but it's situational - they can't just switch it on when they want to. But yes, that is the exception.
I forgot about the m.def song. /thinks maybe I should box an sws, now that zerk lowers m.def ^_^

[StThomas]

Lethal Strike should 1 shot peeps. I mean, thats what makes it lethal, right?

Im pretty sure its bugged.

[PrivatePancak3s]

please stay on topic and keep this flame free ~.~ ... im waiting for an offical reply on this

[DravynX]

Firstly, SWS are a rare breed. This is not a player issue, but a game design issue. Im' sorry to inform you, but there aren't sword singers under every rock and around every corner.

Prophet > SwS for all purposes except the occasional magic resistant song that takes up too many **** slots to begin with.

[PrivatePancak3s]

[ QUOTE ]
Lethal Strike should 1 shot peeps. I mean, thats what makes it lethal, right?

Im pretty sure its bugged.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what im trying to get at >.>

[_Charmille_]

So, Fatal Strike should 1hit people too? It's after all named Fatal Strike. Be happy with a skill that takes all CP away, thats already alot of dmg on some classes.

[Wetzel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good. Why the [censored] should you need to be allowed to one shot people anyways. Be happy with erasing CP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nuker critical = one-shot death. How is this any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

How about a nerf the nukers thread instead of a thread to make other classes as lopp sided as the nukers. Or maybe dwarfs should get a one shot kill skill such as this skill was thoght to be? It is a PvP game correct? Why have dwarfs in a PvP game if they are not going to have a skill where thay can possibly one shot someone?

vote to move this thread to the technical or player question or fantisy land section (same place the bot topic is which is much more of a problem than 1 new skill not working as someone thought it shoud)

Give Dwarfs Leathal Stun . . .

[Bhodosativa]

How about giving healers a debuff called false cure! When they heal a person with this debuff on, it takes hp away instead of healing it!@I$U#"$!@!1

Seriously, you people are stupid, and why you think you should be allowed to instantly kill anything that matters is beyond comprehension. You aren't going to one shot raid bosses, and you aren't going to one shot players. Get over it.

If you want us to go over naming conventions, I have one for you. Curse Death Link should be a debuff that instantly kills players who has it if I die.

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't really seem to be the case with Wild Magic. And yeah, it doesn't = one shot kill on all people, for some classes with lots of HP it = two shot death!! (sarcasm aside, a magic crit pretty much = instant loss irregardless of if it kills on the nuke that crits or on the following few that finish the player off - so yes, a crit = "instant" death) Yeah it doesn't happen _all_ the time, but it also does happen _often enough_ that it's noteworthy.


[/ QUOTE ]

Has any nukers noticed the chances of crits in pvp with wild magic? Nope? Didn't think so.... and you can bet your *** that any nuker who is counting on a crit to happen will be sadly dissapointed on every occasion.

Nuker Crit isn't instant death.... and if you think it's the crits that make them overpowered, or that they wouldn't have killed you anyways without the crit, you sir are ******ed.

Oh, and irregardless isn't a real word.

[zzzZZZzzz]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irregardless

I'm not going to bother arguing the nuker crap because it isn't worth the effort. Irregardless is a word in the same sense that ain't is a word.

[StThomas]

No, sir, the OP has a valid point here.

What is a dagger? A dagger is someone that can unload insane amounts of damage in a short amount of time. They are sneakly little ninjas that somehow find themselves and their daggers behind ya, then BAM...bye bye 3rd and 4th vertibre.

That is a dagger. Quick and Lethal.

Well, now for reality. With the introduction of CP, then nerf of specials damage, and the lack of PVP damage they do, they were robbed of that. Now the only class they can hope to own on a regular basis is a nuker, and with their univerally low M.Def....if they are seen...well.

Daggers should be able to drop people quickly, period. Lethal Blow was suppose to do that. Take away all CP? Please. Taking away CP still gives a nuker time to Aura Burn you to deal, an Archer to stun then kite you to death, a knight to stun and hit you to death, or a gladiator to special you to death.

Oh, and taking away a dwarf's or Orc's CP? Please...you still have all that HP to chew through.

No, I hold to my original statement. Lethal Blow should be LETHAL. I believe its bugged or just....not lethal. Should just called it "Mortal Blow pt. deux" or something.

[SlyCutter]

actually in the skill description its says there is a chance to kill with one shot or something to that effect and need to log on the pts to get the exact description.

So either the skill description is wrong or the skill is bugged that is why we want an offical answer from ncsoft which is it?

[MrTeedOff]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm inclined to agree with Taraza, since the archers in his/her parties will most likely always have song of hunter = pretty lethal for robe bearers. Crits for nukers is like "Woot look at me I got a crit!" - Not saying it's all that unusual - it's on par with tyrants :p

[/ QUOTE ]

critical hit you did 1 dmg. gg exellent shield block for mages.

[Mulch]

So far Leathal shot has landed 3 times in PVP (arena only), and it is supposed to only take CP when it procs. Before they fixed it, it left you with 0hp but still alive, imagine the griefing potential on that one! That is my theory on why they nerfed it, still, it is a nice skill that adds to your damage output.

Even for daggers, it's still another skill to do 1-2k dmg with, even if it doesn't proc. I do agree they should make it land more though, like 5% at least, like it was in early korean beta (from what i hear). Also, the message "You ahve been struck with the instant kill skill" should be on the recieving end of the skill lol..

About nuker crits, this siege I got magic critted TWICE, and I wasn't being hammered by that many nukers, mostly archers. One ended in death the other i barely could run away with 200hp left.. -9 con FTW. For most classes, magic crit=death, it may not kill you instantly, but it sure as hell takes a huge chunk off your hp, enough so that the next shout is very likely to kill you. Does not apply for HP-classes, since they have a major dmg buffer..

[Glav]

The main reason they changed it from reducing to 0 hp is not pvp related at all. It has to do with the fact that with enough daggers and archers, you could have a reasonable chance at 1 shotting raid bosses. Imagine a single dagger user getting all the drops of Antharas or valakas. So, instead of making raid bosses immune to the skill, they make it so it reduces CP to 0.

Well done NC! Balance PvE before PvP, and you have balance. That's great reasoning for class changes.

[Mulch]

Yeah I heard about that, but we don't really know what goes through the minds at NC Soft.. Personally i'd just cap the damage rather than do such an overnerf like this.. But we all know that's how they nerf at NC Soft, remember the dagger nerf >.<

[Orka]

[ QUOTE ]
The main reason they changed it from reducing to 0 hp is not pvp related at all. It has to do with the fact that with enough daggers and archers, you could have a reasonable chance at 1 shotting raid bosses. Imagine a single dagger user getting all the drops of Antharas or valakas. So, instead of making raid bosses immune to the skill, they make it so it reduces CP to 0.

Well done NC! Balance PvE before PvP, and you have balance. That's great reasoning for class changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

they could just have the skill work differently in PVE, that would fix that problem

[Belias]

I've seen lethal shot work twice in the olympiad. Both times it was a one-shot kill (wiped CP, HP, match over).

[SsxSin]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, archers are the strongest class in the game. Frail and weak nukers got nothing on them.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really don't know what you guys are talking about...I'm 59 sr and i can't take a 61 elven mage.....
i try to stun and get some hits...but i'm probly slept before i can complete my shot. so that means i'm dead. this is 1vs 1 pvp...

also i have noticed that my crit rate seems to drastically fall during PvP....
i hardly crit....is it just me or what?
any suggestions on how i can be better at pvp?

[Orka]

dont stunshot a spellsinger, as you noticed now they sleep you...

just shoot shoot shoot crit dead mage, sure it wont work all the time, but bows interupt mages and hurt them a GREAT deal and a crit or 2 is the end of it

[Zephro_Carnelian]

o yes a nother dagger thread . nc lets just go back to 2 put MM back in and put that extra 0 on the end of there dammage also while your at it give them 20000+ mdef and heavy armor masteries so we can all re roll daggers again.

give me a breake a dagger should be able to maby MABY 1 shot a robe if it works on light or heavy armor its retarted and we just need the nerf bat again. so the wipeing out of cp is perfectley sound to me it even sounds a bit over powered

[WaRpZnEwt]

ya my deadly blow already 1 shots everyones CP except for orcs/tanks/dwarves.

[BattleAxe]

If lethal blow destroys someone's CP, I think its fine. Remember its the fact that you were killing most characters in two hits that got your class nerfed. To the person that says mage crits aren't one shot deaths, you're wrong. I'm a level 71 SH and I while I haven't had a lot of them, I've killed at least 5 people in 1 shot in real pvp.

[Oranj2]

it doesnt work. tried on PTS.

[PrivatePancak3s]

[ QUOTE ]
it doesnt work. tried on PTS.

[/ QUOTE ]

still no word... i petitioned to a GM and he told me to contact support.plaync.com ... still no reply... no reply on board admin.. guess ill have to PM board admins now o.O

[Xanthus_]

Look, as far as I can tell the thread was not started to discuss the issue with wether or not this skill is balanced.

The fact of the matter is both daggers and archers got a skill that is supposed to be lethal...and it isn't.

Sounds like a bug to me.

Personally I don't think the skill's very right/balanced either...but I do think it's bugged.

So if it's bugged it should be fixed. Remove/rebalance it later. Fix it for now.

[Mistryl]

The skills Lethal Blow and Lethal Shot are designed to potentially reduce all CP of the target in PvP combat and almost all of the HP of the target in PvE combat when successful. The skill descriptions in the Feature Notes (http://www.lineage2.com/news/chronicle4_04.html) have been updated for accuracy, and the descriptions in game will be changed as soon as possible. Thanks!

[Xanthus_]

[ QUOTE ]
Lethal Blow
76
Active
Launches a potentially deadly attack upon the enemy. Usable when one is equipped with a dagger. Power 5773.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, the feature notes have not been updated, apparently.

And just a small question...lethal shot = power of doubleshot+ a little extra; lethal blow = power of deadly blow+ a little extra...
...these skills, on their own, usually result in the removal of the target's cp...so...the level 76+ dagger/archer lethal skill, in effect, do nothing? :confused:

Well, I guess I'll have an extra few million SP after I hit 76 when I DON'T buy this skill. :P

[Riffle]

Did they at least add a good animation for the skill? :confused:

I am still doing the class change quest, so i could not try it out yet.

[PrivatePancak3s]

[ QUOTE ]
The skills Lethal Blow and Lethal Shot are designed to potentially reduce all CP of the target in PvP combat and almost all of the HP of the target in PvE combat when successful. The skill descriptions in the Feature Notes (http://www.lineage2.com/news/chronicle4_04.html) have been updated for accuracy, and the descriptions in game will be changed as soon as possible. Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

well.. thanks for the reply Mistryl ...
Its kind of sad really though.. i was expecting to be able to one shot people in PvP :P... my deadly blow can pretty much knock peoples cp off so Instant kill jsut seems.. bleh..

One more question... If the CP is gone.. and i land an instant kill... is the skill suppose to bring the hp down to 1?

[Xanthus_]

BTW, you may also want to look into changing the success text.

First off when you succeed it says you just hit YOURSELF with an INSTANT-KILL skill.

Last time I checked removing someone's CP didn't INSTANT-KILL them. Nor was it possible to hit yourself in L2.

[Jetta]

If the CP is gone and you insta kill them you probably do no damage. Stupid worthless skill. Take the lethal trigger out and just up the power ty!

[SithMaster]

The issue should be the lethal shot/fatal blow triggers 0 cp and then applies the regular pwr attack damage like doubleshot. If the skill lands, 0 cp, and then basically a crit equivalent attack. If the skill fails, crit equivalent attack. Since the landing rate is so crappy, that would easily be balanced. It would bring down nukers quickly, but do hardly anything to tanks/orcs just as it should be.

[PrivatePancak3s]

Ok... so i have been noticing more with using lethal blow...

heres what i noticed:
-Lethal Blow works great and does what it says on NPCs

-Lethal blow is just like deadly blow in PvP.. in that it has a chance to land and do some damage.. but heres the weird part....

In pvp i noticed i was spamming skills on a tank.. he was low HP.. then BOOM Insant kill... nothing happend... no damage text was given which means i actually missed the skill itself.. but i landed an Insant Kill... which did absolutley nothing because his cp was already gone.. pretty messed up IMO

Can i get one more official reply if this is going to be fixed in the future.. or im jsut stuck with this skill which i wasted 15,000,000 SP on?

[Tearoid]

get over it, daggers still suck

[PrivatePancak3s]

[ QUOTE ]
get over it, daggers still suck

[/ QUOTE ]

a very intelligent reply ... thanks for your input

[Tearoid]

yw. lethal blow was never meant to 1-shot players, daggers were never suppose to be able to walk up to someone and just expect to kill them with the push of a button, didn't c3 teach you that?

[Box_of_Fox]

Did you just say that to PrivatePancak3s?

*Points a Tearoid* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA :cool:

[PrivatePancak3s]

[ QUOTE ]
yw. lethal blow was never meant to 1-shot players, daggers were never suppose to be able to walk up to someone and just expect to kill them with the push of a button, didn't c3 teach you that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly Anything that could kill a mage is overpowered and should be nerfed asap.

/assist
nuke
nuke
nuke
incorrect target
incorrect target
incorrect target
/assist
nuke
Magical Critical hit!
incorrect target
incorrect target
incorrect target
incorrect target
incorrect target


*rofl ty jetta for that

[Tearoid]

adapt or die, judging by your attitude you'll be doing more of the latter!

[Xanthus_]

[ QUOTE ]
adapt or die, judging by your attitude you'll be doing more of the latter!

[/ QUOTE ]

Tearoid Posts - 46
PrivatePancak3s Posts - 1157

Tearoid game start - C4?
PP - Prelude

Tearoid's played a dagger - NEVER?
PP - Since Prelude?

Tearoid IQ - 0?
PP - Meh.

Tearoid - IDIOT :p

[Jetta]

Its worth the SP honestly. Its a second deadly blow attack instead of having to fall back on mortal. Just what sucks about it is that it has 2 chances of doing absolutely nothing!

Its a brilliant skill for killing tanks. But I guess NCsoft forgot that you completely crippled our tank killing ability already so we'll never target them and chances are this skill's effect will never help us. Bluff better as good as the vortex line of spells...

Blinding blow and lethal blow are the only new stabs put in the game since beta and so far they've both been a let down. Stop putting dumb bells and whistles on skills and make them do raw damage. TY.

Oh and speaking of blinding blow, put it on the skill enchant list so we can reduce the **** 150 mp for 5 seconds of dash time... Thanks!

[Xanthus_]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and speaking of blinding blow, put it on the skill enchant list so we can reduce the **** 150 mp for 5 seconds of dash time... Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, don't forget to mention that dash happens AFTER the stab, when we really needed to dash BEFORE to stab so we could get to the target faster...ty gg.

[Jetta]

Its an escape skill and archer killing skill. Nothing wrong with the way it is implimented but the mp cost really is outrageous. Hawkeyes and Treasure Hunters pay next to no mp for dash.

Lethal blow needs kill combat points FIRST and then do the the skill damage on a successful instant kill. Not one or the other.