And this is sadly why WoW rocks L2 :( [Archive]

Lord Chaos

10-20-2006, 10:55 AM

http://www.gamereactor.dk/

One of the really big danish game magazines...notice the background on the WHOLE site, notice the ads (if you don't get the same ones, refresh)

Now notice the newest editions front cover:

http://www.gamereactor.dk/magcover/dk/74.jpg

Now if L2 was doing something like this we'd have 50 servers and 10 million players and a South Park episode made over Lineage 2.

Darn it, where's my front cover DEF!!!

Lord Chaos

10-20-2006, 10:59 AM

And WoW has dozens of articles on there and a sterling review.

Lineage 2 has 0 articles and 0 reviews.

Sovrath

10-20-2006, 01:08 PM

Oh, I think that's going a little to far. L2 will still be a challenging, open pvp game.

We WOULD get more players but I don't think we would get WoW's numbers by any stretch of the imagination.

Spudnik

10-20-2006, 01:18 PM

you think advertising brings players into a game?

LOL at that.

do you even remember how many subscribers we had in prelude and C1? a lot more than WOW.

how it changed = 2 reasons: wow never had huge updates, l2 came out with chronicles that made downloading and updating a far too long and painful ting for many. every chronicle we would loose subscribers due not only to this, but also to the nerfs. i believe shortly after C3 came out a LOT of players got tired of nerfs.

second reason: wow grinding is linear and no exp loss on death. pvp = who cares.

lineage2: lost exp, sometimes lost gear, and all due to open pvp.

what would you rather do? tbh i would rather not loose my gear and not loose exp every time i was foolish enough to take on a mob higher level than me and lost; nevermind being ganked by high levels.

SithMaster

10-20-2006, 01:32 PM

Woah, advertising definately matters, that's just silly. People market for a reason. But in truth, L2 lacks players because the grind is simply not for everyone.

Spudnik

10-20-2006, 02:00 PM

DJ_shonen

10-20-2006, 02:23 PM

i believe the thing they say is that over 14 million people have PLAYED lineage 2...

[ QUOTE ]
Over 14 Million subscribers have played Lineage® II: The Chaotic Chronicle™ – and now it’s your turn! For the first time ever, Lineage® II and all of its massive expansions - The Chronicles - are available in one box. Lineage® II: The Chaotic Chroniclev Epic Collection delivers the world’s elite MMORPG players an unrivalled Player vs. Player experience set against a lush backdrop of exotic creatures, rival clans, castle sieges, and an ever-growing fantasy world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Past tense. Thats a marketing thing :P Makes L2 look good and appeals to the "JOIN THE GROUP" mentality people have :P

~shonen

SithMaster

10-20-2006, 02:35 PM

o.O

Last numbers I read were 1.3 M monthly access subscribers worldwide in March with 100k of those being US/Europe.

WoW hit 6.6 M in June with 1 M European players and 1.5+ M US players. That statistic EXCLUDES according to Blizzard..."The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired pre-paid cards. "

Those are the last numbers Ive read. Total accounts doesn't give you any info on activity.

These numbers could be wrong, I'd love for Rust to pull out more, but that is the data I've found.

Now tell me what you think about NA pop o.o

Sovrath

10-20-2006, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Woah, advertising definately matters, that's just silly. People market for a reason. But in truth, L2 lacks players because the grind is simply not for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true.

Advertising keeps the game fresh in people's minds as well as entices new people to try the game.

If there is no advertising, even if the game is in stores, people will wonder if it is still being played or is just a ghost town. If constantly see advertising then it seems that the game is still current.

And yes, the grind just isn't for some people. As well as what spudnik said, losing your xp that you worked (played?) hard for and dropping items on death (which will most likely be a moot point pretty soon).

I remember dying twice in one day at lvl 73 and I had to walk away from the keyboard.

was the appropriate point for a "time out". :p

GrensealO

10-20-2006, 03:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Woah, advertising definately matters, that's just silly. People market for a reason. But in truth, L2 lacks players because the grind is simply not for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]if L2 lacks players, why are we listed as having 14 million people and wow only 7?

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are world-wide numbers, I think.

Kayleigh

10-20-2006, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you think advertising brings players into a game?

LOL at that.

do you even remember how many subscribers we had in prelude and C1? a lot more than WOW.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually they did some advertising back then, guy. Thats how I found out about this game. I've got the PC Gamer mags to prove it . DE chick on back cover of some. So yeah...advertising does matter. :p I just wish they'd start doin it again. You can't get alot of people to purchase your product or use your service if you don't draw their attention to it.

SithMaster

10-20-2006, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Woah, advertising definately matters, that's just silly. People market for a reason. But in truth, L2 lacks players because the grind is simply not for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]if L2 lacks players, why are we listed as having 14 million people and wow only 7?

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are world-wide numbers, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering 99% of those numbers...and profits...are Korean.

xephonics

10-21-2006, 02:18 PM

I definately think they need to "get the word out" again for Lineage 2.

wringlin

10-21-2006, 08:29 PM

agreed about puting the word out there about L2...but to end all discussion really fast...WOW IS FOR PANSIES

Romaron

10-22-2006, 02:35 PM

At this NCSOFT headquarters...
We have the funding.
We have the technology.
But i DONT want to spend alot of money.

If you look in a gaming magazing, somewhere around the middle, in a small corner on the side of the left page in between a bunch of WoW and Half Life 2 ads, you'll see a small paragraph where the words are the same colour as the background saying Lineage 2 is a good game.

Trox

10-22-2006, 08:21 PM

Lineage 2's biggest problem is the bad press that keeps circulating about it; all you hear across the others MMOs boards and elsewhere is how there are nothing but Bots playing L2 anymore. For every post I read sayign somethign good abotu L2 there were at least 10 others sayign it is a bot and farmer haven.

Of course I finally decided to ignore all the bad pasts and try it out for myself (been gettign bored with most the other MMOs so looking for somethign with good PvP to keep it interesting). So far L2 seems like a great game; just started tonite so haven't gotten to far tho. Just hope that more people will decide to give it a try; of course like someone else posted the heavy death penatly and open PvP with item loss will probably turn a lot of people off.

Sovrath

10-22-2006, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lineage 2 is a good game.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL :D

MalineII

10-23-2006, 05:01 AM

I recently found L2 on a shelf, and am still shocked. :)

Azrealicus

10-23-2006, 01:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
reasons: wow never had huge updates, l2 came out with chronicles that made downloading and updating a far too long and painful ting for many. every chronicle we would loose subscribers due not only to this, but also to the nerfs. i believe shortly after C3 came out a LOT of players got tired of nerfs.

[/ QUOTE ]

How dare they give large, free content updates on a regular basis! Clearly paying $40 (right here (http://www.ebgames.com/gs/wowburning/wow_burning.asp)) for one expansion every couple of years is much better.

/sarcasm
//it hurts to think doesn't it?

Spudnik

10-23-2006, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reasons: wow never had huge updates, l2 came out with chronicles that made downloading and updating a far too long and painful ting for many. every chronicle we would loose subscribers due not only to this, but also to the nerfs. i believe shortly after C3 came out a LOT of players got tired of nerfs.

[/ QUOTE ]

How dare they give large, free content updates on a regular basis! Clearly paying $40 (right here (http://www.ebgames.com/gs/wowburning/wow_burning.asp)) for one expansion every couple of years is much better.

[/ QUOTE ]imo - it is much better.

it avoids a LOT of issues.

how long has that expansion been in testing now ... nigh on at least 2 months.

how long are our tests ... 3 weeks .. ?

and when your content updates include being KICKED IN THE REAR AND FORCED TO REROLL it really hurts.

burning crusade so far hasnt hurt any classes. if you read the wow forums (after sorting through the 3 year old garbage whiners) youll come accross not only a very helpful playerbase but a rather new concept in MMO's ... its called NOT killing the existing players with huge nerfs.

Azrealicus

10-23-2006, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
imo - it is much better.

it avoids a LOT of issues.

how long has that expansion been in testing now ... nigh on at least 2 months.

how long are our tests ... 3 weeks .. ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, no. Our updates are tested in Korea and here. 3 weeks at the NC Austin office doesn't mean 3 weeks in total.

[ QUOTE ]
and when your content updates include being KICKED IN THE REAR AND FORCED TO REROLL it really hurts.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's only if you want to be the flavor of the month, which is never as strong as people think. A "follow the group mentality" leads to poor decisions. The biggest nerf I can think of was the c3 dagger nerf, which really wasn't all that bad. I played a dagger after c3 and it worked out just fine. Many a "uber" mage died a horrible death to that character.

[ QUOTE ]
burning crusade so far hasnt hurt any classes. if you read the wow forums (after sorting through the 3 year old garbage whiners) youll come accross not only a very helpful playerbase but a rather new concept in MMO's ... its called NOT killing the existing players with huge nerfs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Over at Blizzard they call it "Hey guys! Lets all be Shamans!"

MalineII

10-23-2006, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest nerf I can think of was the c3 dagger nerf

[/ QUOTE ]

C1 summoner nerf. 90% EXp penalty whene xping is not pretty. :p

That was totally called for, though. ^_^;

Stromnar

10-23-2006, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You're right. Over at Blizzard they call it "Hey guys! Lets all be Shamans!"

[/ QUOTE ]
Gooble Gobble Gooble Gobble One of Us! One of Us! DPS! DPS! DPS! Gooble Gobble Gooble Gobble One of Us! One of Us!

Spudnik

10-23-2006, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, no. Our updates are tested in Korea and here. 3 weeks at the NC Austin office doesn't mean 3 weeks in total.

[/ QUOTE ]

two different countries, two different standards. bugs in NA != bugs in KR.

[ QUOTE ]
That's only if you want to be the flavor of the month, which is never as strong as people think. A "follow the group mentality" leads to poor decisions. The biggest nerf I can think of was the c3 dagger nerf, which really wasn't all that bad. I played a dagger after c3 and it worked out just fine. Many a "uber" mage died a horrible death to that character.

[/ QUOTE ]

let me know when i get my sleep back. cause summoner's exp penalty isnt gonna be lifted anytime soon. we cried for daggers to get unnerfed, and 2 chronicles later it happened. so i guess my bishop's sleep will be back in T8? and summoners will ever get their exp back?

nobody plays these characters cause they got nerfsticked. those who do are the exceptions. and dont tell me you didnt whine over your specials nerf from c3.

[ QUOTE ]
You're right. Over at Blizzard they call it "Hey guys! Lets all be Shamans!"

[/ QUOTE ]you never played wow, and dont have a clue.

i played both games long enough to be able to say they both suck. yes l2 sux nutz, as does wow. one game sux to play, the other has a communtiy not worth arguing with. ill let you pick which one cause it honestly doesnt matter anymore. theyre one and the same.

Azrealicus

10-23-2006, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]

nobody plays these characters cause they got nerfsticked. those who do are the exceptions. and dont tell me you didnt whine over your specials nerf from c3.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't whine a bit. Daggers needed the nerf.

[ QUOTE ]
you never played wow, and dont have a clue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played WoW and i'm fairly sure it was Colonel Mustard in the observatory with a candlestick.

Thanks for playing, we have some wonderful parting gifts. (http://www.misanthropyonline.com/images/violin.gif)

edit: You should try using trance on that Bishop.

SpIReLoTa

10-24-2006, 05:05 AM

It's not really market thing...

Wow has and that won't change I think more player for several reasons..
No exp loss , no hard grinding , easy access to items and stuff like that as stated above that makes wow so easier to play.. If you wanna spend like 1-2 hours gaming L2 is not really the game for this..Progress in L2 is really slow , but that's the fun of it.

Another issue, which I think is even more important is that NCsoft doesn't hunt down those L2 private servers. As far I as am concerned about Greece there are quite a few L2 servers where thousands of people(mostly kids) play L2. Closing down those server won't give a great boost to NCsoft's numbers though but it will certainly help..

And LineageII is a great game , but it consumes a lot of time ..

Sovrath

10-24-2006, 05:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's not really market thing...

Wow has and that won't change I think more player for several reasons..
No exp loss , no hard grinding , easy access to items and stuff like that as stated above that makes wow so easier to play.. If you wanna spend like 1-2 hours gaming L2 is not really the game for this..Progress in L2 is really slow , but that's the fun of it.

Another issue, which I think is even more important is that NCsoft doesn't hunt down those L2 private servers. As far I as am concerned about Greece there are quite a few L2 servers where thousands of people(mostly kids) play L2. Closing down those server won't give a great boost to NCsoft's numbers though but it will certainly help..

And LineageII is a great game , but it consumes a lot of time ..

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part that is all correct. WoW is a game that is aimed toward Casual players who want a more laid back playing experience. I see nothing wrong with that.

For some reason, more hardcore mmorpg players seem to think that the rest of the world of "possible" gamers wants to spend hours on end grinding their characters to some high lvl so they can compete in open pvp.

I really don't think so. And L2 is doing find without the same subscription numbers. Could be doing better but is not going anywhere.

As far as closing down private servers. I say leave them be. Otherwise those players will come here. Let them stay where they are.

If players want to "go legit" the option is always there.

Nanashi_Naomhan

10-24-2006, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]

If players want to "go legit" the option is always there.

[/ QUOTE ]
gotta admit the option is alot more avaliable in WOW than L2
easy=popular

Sovrath

10-24-2006, 05:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If players want to "go legit" the option is always there.

[/ QUOTE ]
gotta admit the option is alot more avaliable in WOW than L2
easy=popular

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, most people like to enjoy themselves in games and only want "so much challenge".

How many of you listen to serial music? probably not a lot. It's not "easy" music to listen to. You really have to make an effort to understand it and learn to appreciate its other mechanics and not just a good "melody line and hook" (which would be hard to find anyways :D ).

Most people want to listen to music for the melody, a good beat, maybe to dance to, etc. Does it mean that this, more accessible music is garbage? No of course not. It means that people require different things in their music that is it.

Same for video games. I find it hard to look askance at another person because they don't share my values at video games.

My thought has always been "find something you enjoy and do it until you don't enjoy it anymore".

I mean, why should we entice more players to this game (L2) if all they are going to do is complain on the boards about being pk'ed or ks'ed or how hard the grind is. The nice thing about this community is that they have accepted this game's challenges (even if it is tacitly) and in many cases rise up to meet them.

SithMaster

10-24-2006, 07:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It means that people require different things in their music that is it.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it means some people are just stupid.

Sovrath

10-24-2006, 08:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It means that people require different things in their music that is it.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it means some people are just stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL :p

shine123

10-27-2006, 12:26 AM

why is updating the client a pain? u leave it on over the night and its done in the morning. or download the pts and convert it. saves a ton of time. compared to buying expansions off the shelf? err.. i dont want to pay for chronicles...

those statistics arent too accurate. do u consider full bot party as 1 person or 9? 14mil ACCOUNTS is more like it.

SpIReLoTa

10-27-2006, 07:07 AM

14millions ! OMG !!! But why the heck gustin is always light ;/?

Spudnik

10-27-2006, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
14millions ! OMG !!! But why the heck gustin is always light ;/?

[/ QUOTE ]because 14million is WORLDWIDE. that includes the korean playerbase of nearly 10m players.

in sort, 14m != us numbers.

Romaron

10-27-2006, 09:02 PM

World of Warcraft (http://wanbuygold.ytmnd.com/)

Arigato

10-29-2006, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
let me know when i get my sleep back. cause summoner's exp penalty isnt gonna be lifted anytime soon. we cried for daggers to get unnerfed, and 2 chronicles later it happened. so i guess my bishop's sleep will be back in T8?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your bishop's sleep comes back at level 56. 56 and above, bishops and EEs didn't get nerfed at all as far as sleep goes. In fact 56+ they got a boost to sleep as compared to C4 (MP cost approximately halved & I think faster recast too).

Lord Chaos

10-30-2006, 09:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
14millions ! OMG !!! But why the heck gustin is always light ;/?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 14 million total since the beginning of the game, they are counting every account that has ever been in Lineage 2, including closed accounts.

Its an obvious attempt at countering WoW's figures...the problem is that once someone realizes what the numbers cover, L2 looks very silly.

Elrohir

10-30-2006, 09:23 AM

Just out of curiosity and since I only played WoW for about 2 hours and don't really follow it, how many servers (NA servers, if applicable) does WoW have? How many did they start with?

Sovrath

10-30-2006, 09:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity and since I only played WoW for about 2 hours and don't really follow it, how many servers (NA servers, if applicable) does WoW have? How many did they start with?

[/ QUOTE ]

They have significantly more servers now then when they started. Though they did start with quite a lot.

If you go to the server page you will see a page of servers.

Spudnik

10-30-2006, 09:42 AM

ah but sov, you forget one crucial detail ... euros and asians have their own game translations and everything. counting euro servers and asian servers, there are over 60.

Larielle

10-30-2006, 02:07 PM

Speaking of WoW servers, do they still run localised servers? A quick check of their website seems to indicate they do, but I'm sure I could have missed something.

That was probably the biggest reason for me never to try it. I want to play with people from all over the world, not just one region.

Elrohir

10-30-2006, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I want to play with people from all over the world, not just one region.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes and now you're stuck with us. :)

Larielle

10-30-2006, 02:10 PM

I wouldn't have it any other way :).

JasonM

11-02-2006, 02:35 PM

The only thing about WoW that really impresses me, beyond the enormous number of people playing it, is the card game. Not the game itself, card games beyond Black Jack never did anything for me. (A lot of the art is really sweet, though.) But certain cards contain codes that unlock content in the actual PC game. That kind of interactivity is staggeringly cool to me.
There is a fair amount of WoW merch available, it's wild.

[Edit: Now that I think about it, the WoW model viewer impresses me as well. Lineage 2 needs one of those, a program that lets you play around with different armors and weapons on various characters, cycle through all the animations and look at all the mobs. Make .gifs or movies with them if you wanted to.]