Why ban ?

[zemb]

Hi,

I've a friend who is 100% legit never use 3rd party software since i know here near 2year we play all day in party i see her stuff become little better all day (but at level soon 75 only B ) i see her level increase little by little she work hard for that all day and all night she try harder to subclass.

But when Nc make the big cleaning of bot (Ty for that) they make a mistacke and ban her account :( she immediatly try to contact the support but she only receive automaticly answer, all of her clannies try to and all of us receive the same autmaticly answer. All of us have see her increase her stuff and level and we are happy for here to be near subclass, we don't understand why she be banned :(

Please can u look why she be banned and explain to her cause she never use 3rd party software she never use for sell or for pex.
We can't believe the ban is true we think it's only a mistake from NCsoft support cause like of us they are human and can make mistake when they ban lot of bot for our pleasure

Her question to your service : 061031-000521
The main char : Vanimawen

Thank's a lot for this

edit: she can't post herself for plaid her cause because she can't access here anymore

[EllieBelly]

All she can do is contact support, you're wasting your time here.

[Daka]

As GM don't response to her, and considering this is a BIG mistake, we can't give up so soon.

@EllieBelly:

Zemb said: "she can't post herself for plaid her cause because she can't access here anymore "... maybe we loose our time but we can't admit she looses her account, it represents so much time spent to level her main character "Vanimawen" on Lionna.

I'm really shocked by the behaviour of NC's GM. Ban are the only mean of fighting against bots, that's true... But Abusive ban like this one is completly irresponsible.

We only ask them to regognize they made a mistake and to restore this account. Everybody can make a mistake.

Last thing: if it was not a real 100% legit account, do you think we would loose our time begging you ?

[MalineII]

I'm sure that whoever banned her is absolutely positive that they did the right thing, even if it was unjustified.

Try going through support, this will only get locked or deleted (as it's against the rules, and those rules are in place for a good reason - especially to protect people in case of false bannings).

You might be able to get more information if you manage to contact people who have been banned and gotten their accounts back.

And one last thing: I wouldn't doubt your friend, but how can you really know she is legit? There is no sure way of knowing whether someone cheated, unless it's yourself. Your words in all honour, they can not and should not be used to rule whether or not someone gets banned.

[Daka]

[ QUOTE ]
Try going through support, this will only get locked or deleted

[/ QUOTE ]

Great paradox.

[MalineII]

That's not paradox at all. '__'

Nice try...? :confused:

[EllieBelly]

[ QUOTE ]
Last thing: if it was not a real 100% legit account, do you think we would loose our time begging you ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, yes I do think that. GL with support

[Devlyn_Syde]

IN my experiance it's pretty easy to pick out a player who is botting but an ebayer is harder to catch. However, from what I understand, ebaying is only a punishable offence unlike botting which is listed as bannable. My point is if she was banned it was most likely from botting, which her clanmates would most likely have noticed.

[MalineII]

You don't need to be AFK to bot - or for that matter, you don't need to be botting to use third party software or have client modifications.

A few common tools that your clan may not recognise: Zoom hack, HP hack (integrated in most modern bot programs I believe), using the bot program in the game client to see others' inventory/buffs/etc., the packet sniffer from that drop site, texture/underwear mods...

[Arigato]

[ QUOTE ]
A few common tools that your clan may not recognise: Zoom hack, HP hack (integrated in most modern bot programs I believe), using the bot program in the game client to see others' inventory/buffs/etc., the packet sniffer from that drop site, texture/underwear mods...

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly though, I'd hope that NCSoft would take proportional response into account on some of those, like the sniffer, underwear mods, etc. Of course they're still breaking the rules and punishment is called for, but punishing as harshly as someone who bots is not. I mean, going 66 in a 65 zone is speeding, as is going 120 in a 65, but one is clearly worse than the other and clearly deserving of a greater punishment. Not every violation is always deserving of the maximum possible penalty; I would HOPE the GM team would take that into account and, for example, issue temporary suspensions for some behavior.

I mean, the person who uses a 3rd party program to export their warehouse contents to a text file so they can view it offline isn't as bad as the person who uses a 3rd party program to cheat in PvP, who themselves isn't as bad as the person who uses 3rd party programs to bot 24/7. I have no problem with all of them being punished, but I would hope that the GMs would take the actions on a case-by-case basis and punish the worst offenders harsher than the mild offenses.

[MalineII]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course they're still breaking the rules and punishment is called for, but punishing as harshly as someone who bots is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you fully. There are definitely different degrees of this issue.

[Sarrea]

Hello, Zemb's banned friend is also a friend of mine and I decided to drop some lines here.

GMs decided to ban our friend without real arguments and (the most important) without real proofs of her using a 3rd program or buying adenas with real money. We're playing on Lionna server, where we can see a high bots population. They submerged our catacombs and necropolis, Tower of Insolence and more playing zones from the game. NCsoft banned our 100% legit friend while there is a big population of bots to ban ... and they are not punish. I petitioned myself many bots in the past without any success. I still see the same bots at the same place after 2 or 3 months I petitioned them.

Why does NCsoft bannish legit players ? Maybe it's a marketing reason ... They bannish some people without carring about their past, so they can say they made something about this problem. In this case, they won't ban a real cheater and they don't lose profits with people that buy many accounts to cheat with 3rd programs.

My banned friend contacted GMs to ask an answer to that punishment. What a surprise to discover you've got banned when you never made something wrong ... isn't it ? All she got as an answer was: we won't change the issue of this act and you won't get more details ... what an incomplete answer ...

here's my question to NCsoft: Is it really the quality service you want to offer to your clients ?

[Abisha]

hmm Sarrea did you know in the eula it's clearly says the month fee you pay is that you are allowed to play the (toon)
they realy dont have to give any reason at all to ban a account because you dont own the account you own the CD-key only and the month fee is alowing you to play the game
i know it sounds bad but believe me it's nessasary they have this protection

[Krotovskij]

My girl wathe baned too, but she never used 3-rd programs. Support makes some standart answers and then any new naswers they closed and not answer. So bad support i hade never seen :( It's very poor that NC baning normal players :(

[MalineII]

Firstly, if you are on Lionna, you know that bots were banned recently, so please spare yourself the conspiracy theory about GMs going around banning people nilly-willy: You're only making yourself (and by proxy your friend) look bad.

[ QUOTE ]
without real arguments and (the most important) without real proofs of her using a 3rd program

[/ QUOTE ]

The arguement was that she used third party software, and the whatever the (actual or mistaken) proof is, they're not disclosing it. That doesn't mean there isn't such a thing.

[Abisha]

Krotovskij if your GF is banned and you sure she did not why are you here then???
if my GF gets banned for whatever reason and i know she did not do a thing i did stop playing L2 for moral support
what i find silly is that most people are banned are general new to L2 most likely used a walker program **** NCsoft start doing their things right =D A++

[Krotovskij]

[ QUOTE ]
Krotovskij if your GF is banned and you sure she did not why are you here then???
if my GF gets banned for whatever reason and i know she did not do a thing i did stop playing L2 for moral support
what i find silly is that most people are banned are general new to L2 most likely used a walker program **** NCsoft start doing their things right =D A++

[/ QUOTE ]
We registered new account she and playing. Waiting for relize another popular MMORPG (NOT NC :) ), will not named it becaose it will be reclame :)

[Analhanna]

NC is certainly doing Well Banning bots, this is'nt a point to debate on.

I pm Mystryl here to avoid posting in public section, wich can IMO be misinterpretated by NC'support as a way to provoque and force them to reconsider the case. but..in fact..that what we want.

The Account owner( wich is btw the term NC support use to qualify the "CD-KEY" owner) we're talking about is, as many are, a 100% legit pple.

I personnaly log each day as often as i can and watch after afk pple, she's my best irl friend and is active on chat/Vent/TS, each time she plays, and more, she plays often with pple we know.

Her money, lvl, stuff, is enought poor for a 75 EE helped by her clan to say she never ebay, never botted or anything else.

in fact no one can say at 100 pple don't bot as we're not behind the computer to check.
but...this time, NC hit the more un-attackable pple i know on the lionna Server, talking about cheatingstuff.

When we ask for proof we got a "it can give too much info on our way to spot them, so no info for u get band and SFTU" or something like it.

it sounds more than a : "sorry we wanna ban someone to make believe our good intentions, admit it worked , and sorry again u'll not see it IG cuz u'r banned".

I respect the work they do, but...

/discuss++ the methods

[SweCore]

Hell i know what i would do if i got banned i would read all the other oh someone i know got banned threads who are out there. And also how can anyone say that their friends isnt using illigal programs since to my knowledge kinda hard to tell if anyone uses say the sniffer. But hell if ure banned innocent make a support ticket, it doesnt work just suck it up and move on. If u got friends helping u u can make agrade in tops 2 month if u put some heart into it.

Its just a game, if u cant play it isnt the end of the world.

[Elrohir]

[ QUOTE ]
And also how can anyone say that their friends isnt using illigal programs since to my knowledge kinda hard to tell if anyone uses say the sniffer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not just the sniffer but the IG version of a certain program. I've sure there are several others that are considered 3rd party but aren't bot programs.

[zemb]

[ QUOTE ]
Hell i know what i would do if i got banned i would read all the other oh someone i know got banned threads who are out there. And also how can anyone say that their friends isnt using illigal programs since to my knowledge kinda hard to tell if anyone uses say the sniffer. But hell if ure banned innocent make a support ticket, it doesnt work just suck it up and move on. If u got friends helping u u can make agrade in tops 2 month if u put some heart into it.

Its just a game, if u cant play it isnt the end of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes for sure with a big clan and on other server maybe easy to make A stuff in 2month
But we are not so big and Lionna is really expensive :) and the most important when u play and make time for a char in 2years of party farming night and day of pex for this char it's really hard to loose all u make specially when u respect EULA, and harder for a healer :)

Yes it's only a game but all of us love his char and can 't accept deleted specially when there is no reason :)

[Duroon]

Well the thing you really need to understand is posting here won't accomplish anything. The person banned has to go through the PlayNC support site. That is the only way they will get any answers or any help.

[SilverWolfEcho]

+1

[elvenaura]

Also, I find that the level of denail on someone who was using a botting program is exceptionally high until you finally can prove it. Its like they know they did it but still will deny until it can be proven by someone else. If you got banned, probably not from zoomhack.

[HGMspam]

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