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Isaydia
08-30-2007, 05:41 PM
Was wondering what tattoos are best to get for an EE? (level 40+) and what gear/weapon should I aim for?
pretty sure karmian is most usefull but what about the SA weapons..

Listof
08-30-2007, 05:51 PM
+5 WIT / -5 MEN
+4 CON / -4 STR

Gear for EEs is typically:

Divine & Homu w/ Acumen
Blue Wolf & OE'd Homu w/ Acumen or SoV w/ Acumen
Majestic & SOM w/ Acumen

MalineII
08-30-2007, 07:52 PM
If you're not going to run into areas with level 70+ players or nuking for some reason, I'd suggest a mysterious sword over a homu, just for the price.

I also prefer Karmian over Divine - there shouldn't be any max MP trouble at that level (since you don't have a significant set of valueable buffs), but cast speed when you're trying to heal with a level 35 heal at 50+ is of great importance.

40~52 I ran out of mana and let someone die exactly one time, and that was when I had to resort to battle heals/vitalise due to insufficient cast speed (was not wearing an acumen weapon at that time).

Listof
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
In the past, Divine has been preferred over Karmian because of +WIT for rezzes, not because of extra mp. However, now that most of the player base is far out of the C-grade level or at least has access to higher level rezzers, it may not really make a difference. I doubt most people would really want a level 4x EE rez anyway.

If nothing else, I just think Karmian is uglier. :p

Krissa
08-30-2007, 10:26 PM
I don't know how the hate build up works these days on lower levels, but back in C1-C4 EE's heal castspeed was what reagrroed mobs on them (and sometimes you wanted to use this feature, as sometimes you want to use Trance aggro bulidup on nukers these days).

Then, having extra PDef of Divine was nice. And yes, Karmian is uglier.

For tattoos, I prefer (in order of priority):

+4 Wit -4 Men
+4 Dex -4 (or -5) Str -- don't underestimate the importance of your runspeed
+4 Con -4 (or -5) Str

And +Wit tattoo is of more priority than Acumen weapon.

MalineII
08-30-2007, 11:57 PM
The res %age difference from the one extra +WIT at that level is fairly insignificant, especially with the speed of exp.

I agree that divine looks better, especially with crimson boots. In the end, those levels are short, so it doesn't matter which way you go. :P

Heck, I use Avadon in B (except for rare exceptions when I feel I must have that tiny extra bit of regen off BW) and it's gone just fine ... actually helps in catacombs, as Turn Undead sticks a lot more frequently with that bit of extra MAtk. :P

Isaydia
08-31-2007, 03:26 AM
+5dex -5str
+4con -4str
+4wit -4men
That do sound like a great idea, and yeah I also cant stand the look of karmian its so ugly :/ Guess I'm going to try to go with divine, and I guess some extra mp cant hurt :)
And now with these acu pots and bsps my cast speed wont be too slow I think.

MalineII
08-31-2007, 03:41 AM
You can't +5 in one tattoo slot.

Divine will probably work if you don't put yourself into situations where you're really neccessary (instead of PP or SE). :p

Krissa
08-31-2007, 04:08 AM
Just the opposite. Divine allows you to better suit the role of a secondary tank. In a melee group, the only toon that is expected to tank-kite a part of the mobs on overpulls is a healer; the rest is supposed to assist the target dealer (a buffer may root, though).

You cannot spam Greater Heal anymore, but you should be able to split the train by casting Greater Heal + Vitalize on a tank, and then cast Greater Heal on yourself and kite while continuing to heal the tank.

MalineII
08-31-2007, 05:14 AM
Ah. Well, we pretty much solved that with sleep -> wind-shackle and then it was simply easier to heal the tank as half the mobs were usually dead already (no need to pull much more than three or four to keep a small group going in a catacomb).

Krissa
08-31-2007, 06:16 AM
A small group going in a cata does not need an EE. Try Cruma 2 or GC ;)

MalineII
08-31-2007, 06:33 AM
Done both, liked Karmian better in both instances. :)

Cruma's where the guy died too... wish I'd been wearing an acumen weapon. >_<

Veansa
09-01-2007, 10:23 PM
any group that needs a healer as a secondary tank is not a good group.

Krissa
09-01-2007, 11:42 PM
4-ppl (BD-dagger-buffer-healer) Rift group is pretty decent. 2-healer Rift group might even be better exp-wise, but it's not for my level yet.

And of course, any group that does not need a healer as a secondary tank is not the most fun one to play as an EE.

Listof
09-02-2007, 01:12 PM
I have never played a secondary tank as an EE. I find plenty of fun stuff to do between healing and recharging and trancing.

I dunno, maybe it's a level thing. At the higher levels, even if we don't have a tank, the DDs do so much damage that I never pull aggro, or if I do, it can't even get to me before the DDs pull it back.

Even in smaller groups, I can't see you dumping enough heals to pull aggro. If your group somehow gets overwhelmed by mobs, you should be trancing rather than just healing.

If you're pulling aggro in AOE groups, you are doing something wrong. You just have to learn how to time your heals. If you send a heal out before the puller gets the group back and the appropriate person takes aggro, you will get it on you. That might occasionally be necessary, if your puller is almost dead, but then they should take it right back on themselves.

So anyway, I can't see a situation where an EE would even get the chance (let alone need) to be a back-up tank, unless you are talking about the lower levels (like 4x down). I occasionally pulled aggro on myself back in Cruma 2, but not on purpose. I thought they made heals less aggro-able (is that a word?) since then, but I dunno (that was C1).

Krissa
09-02-2007, 02:35 PM
1. We were indeed speaking about C-grade at first. When else would you wear Karmian or Divine?

2. In small Rift groups, I get aggro not from heals, but from trances, usually while a group cleans a corner after a bad entrance to a big room. Nothing to worry about in DC robes, though.

3. I know when to and when not to pull aggro in AoE teams, tyvm. I used to know how to split trains on overpulls, but I wouldn't do that with the trains of stunners, which are common to me these days.

By the way, damage dealt does not always directly relate to aggro built. Lethal Strike from Turn Undead on x6 HP mob does a lot of damage, but builds no more aggro than any other debuff (and doesn't even wake a slept mob, but it's another story).

MalineII
09-02-2007, 03:37 PM
A tank has duties beyond taking damage - and that is pacing and pulling. An EE is quite good at that (although not as nice as bishop's peace/trance combo of course).

Lyds
09-02-2007, 04:23 PM
Ignore the comments re: divine giving the +1 wit, this was only a needed attribute before tattoos were introduced to L2. The max +WIT rez bonus you can get is 4, which you already have from your +4 wit tattoo.. anything after that has absolutely no impact on what % rez you have.

Listof
09-02-2007, 04:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1. We were indeed speaking about C-grade at first. When else would you wear Karmian or Divine?

[/ QUOTE ]

But then you went on to say, "And of course, any group that does not need a healer as a secondary tank is not the most fun one to play as an EE" which includes any and all groups, whether C-grade or not.

[ QUOTE ]
2. In small Rift groups, I get aggro not from heals, but from trances, usually while a group cleans a corner after a bad entrance to a big room. Nothing to worry about in DC robes, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I did say that I haven't been 4x since C1 so I really wouldn't know how pulling aggro works these days at those levels and I said as much.

[ QUOTE ]
3. I know when to and when not to pull aggro in AoE teams, tyvm. I used to know how to split trains on overpulls, but I wouldn't do that with the trains of stunners, which are common to me these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you didn't know how to AOE. I was simply laying out the different types of groups and showing how an EE shouldn't be tanking in any of them. I started not to even include AOE since no one mentioned it before but I decided to throw it in there just to cover all the bases. And there may be people who have never AOE'd on a healer and wouldn't know that.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, damage dealt does not always directly relate to aggro built. Lethal Strike from Turn Undead on x6 HP mob does a lot of damage, but builds no more aggro than any other debuff (and doesn't even wake a slept mob, but it's another story).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I really get your point on this. Lethal Strike from Turn Undead? I was talking about real DDs (like archers) holding onto aggro, not about EEs trying to DD and pull aggro. Maybe I read it wrong though.

I wasn't saying you sucked, please don't get offended. I was just saying that I don't see any situation where a healer would function as a tank. I mean, in FOG, which is one of the craziest places (and most fun) I've ever xp'ed, you'll have a TON of mobs all running around at the same time, randomly spawning like 20 more mobs and healers will just be pumping out the heals and trances - even then I don't really tank. Pull aggro, yeah, on the ones I tranced, but tank? No.

Having mobs on me (in any situation, not just FOG) costs me mp to heal myself, makes me pull heals off my party members and breaks the flow of what they're doing when they have to pull of the mob they're on or the mob that would be next and come get the mob that's banging on me. It's just not a good thing, IMO.

Listof
09-02-2007, 04:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ignore the comments re: divine giving the +1 wit, this was only a needed attribute before tattoos were introduced to L2. The max +WIT rez bonus you can get is 4, which you already have from your +4 wit tattoo.. anything after that has absolutely no impact on what % rez you have.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Where did you get that info from?

I'll admit I haven't 100% kept up with the last 2 updates patch notes like I should have, but unless they changed it you're just pulling that out of your butt. If they have changed it, ok then, point me to it and I'll change my tune.

Look here (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=spoiler&Number=401548&pag e=0&fpart=1) for info on rez %.

The base WIT stat for EEs is 23. According to the chart in that thread, a level 40 EE would need 31 WIT to get max rez %. A level 48 would need 29 WIT. Doing just a +4 tat like you suggest would not do it.

Krissa
09-02-2007, 10:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. We were indeed speaking about C-grade at first. When else would you wear Karmian or Divine?

[/ QUOTE ]
But then you went on to say, "And of course, any group that does not need a healer as a secondary tank is not the most fun one to play as an EE" which includes any and all groups, whether C-grade or not.

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed. I pull virtually no aggro in stacked archer groups, but so far they are much less fun to play than melee minigroups in Rift.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I did say that I haven't been 4x since C1 so I really wouldn't know how pulling aggro works these days at those levels and I said as much.

[/ QUOTE ]
In C4, it worked basically the same way: once EEs had become 48 and got Vitalize, their peak healspeed was limited only by aggro bulidup from their heals. HoT part of GH could change that in C5, but I doubt that for so much.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3. I know when to and when not to pull aggro in AoE teams, tyvm. I used to know how to split trains on overpulls, but I wouldn't do that with the trains of stunners, which are common to me these days.

[/ QUOTE ]
I never said you didn't know how to AOE. I was simply laying out the different types of groups and showing how an EE shouldn't be tanking in any of them.

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, there are cases for C-grade EEs on AoE overpulls where it is expected to take some aggro with faster HPS and "tank" a little bit with kiting (or even without), without stopping to heal your tanking poler. Basically, it works this way:

1. Mobs hit too hard and you generate more hate with heals than your poler with damage.
2. Some of the mobs rush to you, lessening the mobs' damage to your poler.
3. You are healing for less HPS, generate less aggro, mobs run back to a poler.
4. Repeat until you can outheal the damage without splitting the train.

But once your mobs start stunning, you are better to avoid these situations.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, damage dealt does not always directly relate to aggro built. Lethal Strike from Turn Undead on x6 HP mob does a lot of damage, but builds no more aggro than any other debuff (and doesn't even wake a slept mob, but it's another story).

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I really get your point on this. Lethal Strike from Turn Undead? I was talking about real DDs (like archers) holding onto aggro, not about EEs trying to DD and pull aggro. Maybe I read it wrong though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am saying that if killspeed of your DDs is too small to keep aggro from you on the entry to the room, you may generate less aggro on you by turning the mobs (and killing some of them in the process... sometimes killing even more mobs than your DDs do at the same time) than by keeping them tranced.

[ QUOTE ]
Having mobs on me (in any situation, not just FOG) costs me mp to heal myself, makes me pull heals off my party members and breaks the flow of what they're doing when they have to pull of the mob they're on or the mob that would be next and come get the mob that's banging on me. It's just not a good thing, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dunno. So far, having a mob or two on me isn't what my DDs would be worried about unless they have no better things to do.

MalineII
09-03-2007, 12:25 AM
Yeah, I often find if I have room to move without aggroing more, mobs on me (even in robes) are a good secondary to trying to heal a swarmed tank... although I always have the option of peacing (PP&EE) stuff after kiting it a few paces from the group, or sleep and peace (and yes, in a crowded situation I would much rather sleep than trance).

I guess it's a matter of personal playstyle.

Krissa
09-03-2007, 02:38 AM
I don't like Sleep.

1. Any spell that casts longer than Major Heal casts way too long.

2. Trance is F1. Always, except on the soloing bar. I don't even remember on which of my bars Sleep is. And I wouldn't want to cast it accidentally (see 1).

3. Most of the time, you never know which of the slept mobs your DDs would be picking next (intentionally or accidentally). For the rest of the time, the mobs that you would want to sleep are ranged mobs and thus are better to be tranced.

MalineII
09-03-2007, 07:30 AM
I generally know the order in which the main assist proceeds and sleep things where I'm confident that they will be asleep for the full 30 seconds. Sleep = less time targeting, more time paying attention to the situation. But, as pointed out, it's a matter of how your group and you yourself play.

There's no set 'right' or 'wrong' - whatever works to keep MP full and everyone around you alive is the right way to handle a given situation.

Lyds
09-03-2007, 01:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ignore the comments re: divine giving the +1 wit, this was only a needed attribute before tattoos were introduced to L2. The max +WIT rez bonus you can get is 4, which you already have from your +4 wit tattoo.. anything after that has absolutely no impact on what % rez you have.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? Where did you get that info from?

I'll admit I haven't 100% kept up with the last 2 updates patch notes like I should have, but unless they changed it you're just pulling that out of your butt. If they have changed it, ok then, point me to it and I'll change my tune.

Look here (http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=spoiler&Number=401548&pag e=0&fpart=1) for info on rez %.

The base WIT stat for EEs is 23. According to the chart in that thread, a level 40 EE would need 31 WIT to get max rez %. A level 48 would need 29 WIT. Doing just a +4 tat like you suggest would not do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

...

The max rez bonus that you can get from +wit is 4 (+3 for ee, +4 for bish), or ~20%, which is why an ee maxes out at an 80% rez, and a bishop maxes out at a 90% rez, if you give an ee 40 wit they still won't rez for anything more than 80%. It maxes out, regardless of the numbers listed.

Read the post you just linked me to again

[ QUOTE ]

It is impossible to get a 93% res or 95% res or what ever other variation of such you have heard. There is a hard cap of a bonus of 20% added onto your res.


[/ QUOTE ]


Oh, and that didn't change in the last two updates, its always been that way, L2P

Lyds
09-03-2007, 01:23 PM
><

Listof
09-03-2007, 06:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The max rez bonus that you can get from +wit is 4 (+3 for ee, +4 for bish), or ~20%, which is why an ee maxes out at an 80% rez, and a bishop maxes out at a 90% rez, if you give an ee 40 wit they still won't rez for anything more than 80%. It maxes out, regardless of the numbers listed.

Read the post you just linked me to again

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're the one who needs to read it again (or the first time.) Nowhere does it say that +4 = 20% (or +3 for EE).

Directly above the part you quoted it says:

[ QUOTE ]
Wit does not add a set amount of % onto your res. Commonly people say it is +3 each wit or +5. This is also false.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are confused here. At level 74 (and only level 74) an EE will have their Rez maxed out at +3 WIT. However, below that, she'll need +4 WIT to max out her rez. And as I pointed out earlier, at level 40 an EE would need +8 WIT to max her rez.

Seriously, read it again.

Shinnai
09-04-2007, 04:36 AM
http://hatsch.digital-nerv.net/public/rez.php

from site of Hatschiline