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ElvenHottie
09-27-2007, 10:36 AM
I have an Elven Wizard, but I'm not sure whether to go Spell Singer, or Summoner for my 2nd class change.

How do these two classes compare? Is one better? Is one more expensive than the other? Which is more powerful?

Champa
09-27-2007, 11:15 AM
On the ES, you'll have next to no down time (in the right spot), while the sps will blow massive amounts of mana in very short time. I've never played sps, but I dare say that the ES will be far less frustrating to play.

ES will probably be more expensive, if you choose to use beast shots, and with crystal cost (aqua cubic isn't so great, so you can skip this one, but life cubic is nice to have up, even if it's not super reliable. I use both cubics because I have a lot of D cry anyway :p). That said, ES isn't as gear dependant as the sps. You can settle with a low C weapon, if you don't insist on doing damage along with your pony. But you'll want to have some at least half way decent armor.

Sps is probably more "powerful", being a nuker and all.

ElvenHottie
09-27-2007, 11:54 AM
So would I be correct to say:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
| ES | ESS
--------------------------------------------------------
Operation Costs | High | Low
--------------------------------------------------------
Weapon Costs | Low | High
--------------------------------------------------------
Armor Costs | Low | High
--------------------------------------------------------
MP Spending | Low | High
--------------------------------------------------------
Inactivity (MP | Low | High
Recharge) | |
--------------------------------------------------------
Dmg/second | Low | High
</pre><hr />

???

AquaSpark
09-27-2007, 02:24 PM
I wouldn't agree with the "low" dmg/second.
Now that beastshots are in the game, an ES does a good amount of damage. Let's say "medium" ;)

Champa
09-27-2007, 02:26 PM
I'd put "medium" next to cost on the ES as well. It's not *that* expensive. :)

Sunspark
10-03-2007, 10:13 AM
It depends on how much you want to spend. An ES using SS, BSPS herself, + 2 cubics + pony using SS and BSPS is very expensive.

Also: "Inactivity" should be set at none. From 40 to my current level I could grind until my eyes bleed without having to rest, ever. If you have to rest its only because you are doing way too difficult mobs for lets say, a quest.

If you want a powerful character do not go summoner; they play a very passive role in PvP. SpS is the complete opposite. Play the summoner if you think its fun to solo, be selfsufficient and different.

As for eqp; my ES is nearly 78 and still using BW :p Its simply the best armour. It's cheap compared to all those S grade toons. I did up my set to +7 though and all my money from a half year being hero went into that set and +5 epic jewelry. You get the best mdef in the game with that setup (buffed), since summoners can up their MEN without being a stupid boon. Together with transfer pain I'm a "meatshield" for incoming nuker pvp groups. Many occasions I withstood 4 buffed S grade nukers with just a prophet healing me, and my party killing the opponent. If thats your thing go ES. If you rather want to actively pwn with nukers go nuker.

EbilBaBy
10-07-2007, 02:08 AM
imo if u want pvp dont go ES: es is not really good class for pvp, they can be annoying doing the warrior bane in a mass pvp and send the poney vs some targets, but es isent a good suport class for pvp and isent a killer class. but if u like soloing i am sure with a se and a bd u can xp very well with a pony in catacombs. I have subclass arcana lord and i liked alot xp this class boxing some buffers.
about spellsinger, my main is mystic muse , imo its the best mage class because have a good number of good skills and insane dps , if u cant box recharger and buffer u will have hard time a sps, and if u do i sugest u kill mobs that die in 2 hits with last hit solar flare for extra xp

Isaydia
10-07-2007, 10:41 AM
Sunspark_Hind are good are the ES buffs for etc mage parties, do they help a lot? etc mana regen and cast speed

zorreborre
10-08-2007, 05:42 AM
ES is the chepest Summoner to play imo, since u only need to use ure horsie to nuke itīs probably even cheaper then lvling a Sps. especialy since u get C grade jeawls from the oren quest that u just smach into crystals ^^
Just lvl up using AOE, and get a PP friend if u dont box one, accumen + zerk 2 is a must.

Sunspark
10-08-2007, 09:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sunspark_Hind are good are the ES buffs for etc mage parties, do they help a lot? etc mana regen and cast speed

[/ QUOTE ]
Ive been pvping in an SPS party. For them its uber, yes. For anything but said party or pve its near useless. Its a pvp buff and the ES is a waste of a teamslot if the rest of the party arent nukers.

[ QUOTE ]
ES is the chepest Summoner to play imo, since u only need to use ure horsie to nuke itīs probably even cheaper then lvling a Sps. especialy since u get C grade jeawls from the oren quest that u just smach into crystals ^^
Just lvl up using AOE, and get a PP friend if u dont box one, accumen + zerk 2 is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thats only true for the low levels. Starting at 65 ish its useless to AOE compared to lets say, fotd - especially circle.

MysticLance
10-08-2007, 10:25 PM
I LOVE FOREST OF THE DEAD WITH A BOXED ANYTHING-WITH-HOLY-WEAPON! &lt;3

Just thought I'd shout that out D:

caux
10-11-2007, 10:28 AM
One shooting the vampires for 13k xp &gt; holy weapon IMO :p

Isaydia
10-11-2007, 01:21 PM
I dont know crap about ES, but you can only have one of the acu or regen buffs active at once right? and what horse has what :P

Champa
10-11-2007, 04:39 PM
It's the seraphim (the pink fluorescent one) that has the buffs and cure, and yes, you can only have one of them at a time.

Isaydia
10-11-2007, 04:47 PM
what cure? =P
also whats best to use for ES, a prophet or SE?

Champa
10-12-2007, 08:20 AM
From l2p:
[ QUOTE ]
Cure of Seraphim
Party Magic (self target)
Target = self
Attribute: None
Reuse Delay: 8
Effect: Cure Sleep, Root, Paralyze, Silence, Stun

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to aoe, prophet would be best, since you already have the empower buff (bright servitor). For normal melee, it's up to your personal preferance imo. I like warcryer.

Isaydia
10-13-2007, 12:54 AM
sweet cure :P
so what does an ES do in party? except for pony buffs, can I even do any damage by nuking/melee or do I just stand around buffing all the time &gt;&gt; (talking about when I am 60+)

Champa
10-13-2007, 03:56 PM
The only times I use the seraphim, is if it's a mage party - specifically mage aoe (or raids). In fighter- or mixed parties, I use the merrow and DD/help out with my baby heals (I always do this).

EDIT: about the cure, it's not a sure thing if it's gonna cure every time; the chance goes up as you level.

Sunspark
10-14-2007, 10:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
sweet cure :P
so what does an ES do in party? except for pony buffs, can I even do any damage by nuking/melee or do I just stand around buffing all the time &gt;&gt; (talking about when I am 60+)

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't party, ES is a solo class. Next patch they take out the XP % leech your ponies do at higher lvl though, so I guess teaming becomes viable if your bored. Nevertheless soloing will always be better XP, safe for the FoG aoe duo with 4box.

As for teams; they profit more from your merrow (blue pony) - pony melee's and so do you. Your not going to outdmg DD's btw, but you can take the role of a minor healer or average tank if you wish so (to complete party roles).

Isaydia
10-15-2007, 06:17 AM
Sunspark_Hind how do you mean aoe FoG? I seriously doubt I can just go down solo and aoe, maybe I am wrong.. if so, tell me why and how :)

I want to use my ES in mage parties ^^

Sunspark
10-16-2007, 09:34 AM
Sadly in PVE mage parties dont need you. Sure, your fun and all, but your only making them OOM faster, the regen doesnt compare to an SE/EE. The teamslot is better used for an extra nuker. Its just pvp where they love us.

AoE fog: duo with a poling destroyer, 3box your buffers outside team - get insane XP by leeching. Thats not limited to just ES, any class can leach. The xp you get from that doesnt compare to anything in the game. Its getting nerfed next "chronicle".

Isaydia
10-16-2007, 10:12 AM
thing is I am a destroyer atm, doing pole in fog.. but want to sub ES :P

Sunspark
10-17-2007, 08:28 AM
Shame you cant lvl your ES with your dest then :p

Isaydia
10-17-2007, 04:00 PM
yea indeed, but to you guys it sounds like ES is completely useless in everything except solo which is decent :(

oEliinao
10-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Ponies and orcs might look "interesting" together ^_^

Sunspark
10-18-2007, 03:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
yea indeed, but to you guys it sounds like ES is completely useless in everything except solo which is decent :(

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't put it as strongly as that, but for others in PvE we are useless. But, you can also play this game without wanting to be useful to a team and just prefer soloing -here comes the positive side: without being dependend on other classes to solo effectively. ES and PS (WL are too wanted in teams) are solo classes tbh. Expecting to be not wanted in the team is the side-effect of being a class NC designated as a pure loner class. If you do not like that fact you simply should not roll a summoner imo. One of the reasons theres so little summoners: most don't like the playstyle.

Isaydia
10-18-2007, 03:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ponies and orcs might look "interesting" together ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally someone unrderstands me! Imagine me running around with a pinky pony, that is pimpish :):D

well if you say they are good for aoe.. why cant they group with WL, dwarfs or destroyers then? I'm lost :P

Sunspark
10-19-2007, 08:42 AM
Lets see; 500 dmg aoe once every blue (haw haw, blue) moon or a destroyer killing fog mobs in 3 hits. Honestly, try aoe a FoG mob by yourself, the dmg it will do is pathetic. AOE is nice up to 65 where the dmg of the aoe scales with the mobs, but anything NOT 1/2 or 1/4th HP and the merrow will OOM real fast and do very little due to castspeed. Needless to say my destroyer friend asked me to heal him with my uber lvl 3 battleheal instead of nuking with the merrow.

Last but not least; it will get aggro and mess up the pull. Summons attract mobs passively if you run (as puller) near a servitor. If you truely want to help out in a fog aoe party/duo use the Seraphim and chaincure paralize. That way your puller can also bring those para mobs.

Isaydia
10-23-2007, 02:44 PM
just wondering sunspark, what does the 76+ ponys do? Havent been able to find good information about it

Sunspark
10-24-2007, 02:29 AM
I asume you mean the lvl 79 pony no-one found the SB for on my server yet? :)

It has a singletarget stun and a powerful AOE attack (read: a stunning merrow). Wether the stun lands often or the AOE is good I don't know. Sure it has awesome matk, but I don't know the power of the aoe nuke it has. Its lvl (84) should help against erase though.

DeathsFriend
10-24-2007, 06:48 AM
another great party favorite is summon friend isnt it?
ES has that ability right?

Isaydia
10-24-2007, 06:51 AM
summon friend rocks yea, one of the reasons why I want ES :)
But I'm still not sure how to level it as fast as possible, I was thinking of nuking to 52.. but then? anyone have tips? I have SE and prophet slave so buffs is not a problem

Sunspark
10-24-2007, 08:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
another great party favorite is summon friend isnt it?
ES has that ability right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Most ppl on my server have a lvl 56 boxed summoner for that, usually a warlock so they get crits too, so not exactly cool for us.


As for fast XP; I stopped nuking at 40. Theres plenty melee areas to XP; for example aligator island near the necro from 40 and upwards, after that Enchanted Valley (not that good), after that (lvl 50ish) its "ownage" at FP (near giants cave) - tigers and orcs. Give you uber XP up to 62-64. After that FOTD up to lvl 77. Besides enchanted valley those are the top XP spots to solo with a 2box buffer imo. Not sure what I can recommend for lvl 44-50; I never liked those lvls in terms of XP speed.

Isaydia
10-24-2007, 09:18 AM
ahhh cool, and may I ask how you exp? :P nuke or what pony do you use and do you both you and pony fight etc etc

Sunspark
10-26-2007, 09:51 AM
Hate quoting myself but:
Me:
[ QUOTE ]
I stopped nuking at 40

[/ QUOTE ]
You:
[ QUOTE ]
how you exp? :P nuke or

[/ QUOTE ]

:p

I melee with my pony, best use a focus weapon. If your too poor just stand at the sidelines I guess. At higher lvl your own dmg start to pale so much compared to pony to a point your own dmg doesn't matter (meaning it wont make your pony do an attack less on the mob). You usually end up windshackling the mob so it hurts the pony less.

wasterx
10-26-2007, 11:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
summon friend rocks yea, one of the reasons why I want ES :)
But I'm still not sure how to level it as fast as possible, I was thinking of nuking to 52.. but then? anyone have tips? I have SE and prophet slave so buffs is not a problem

[/ QUOTE ]

Use the merrow to melee mobs as sunspark said, for 40-52 alligator isle is very good exp.

52-56 hmm, you can try AOE on 1/2 hp outside oren, but its not easy w/o a buffbox at this stage. Safer route is probly have merrow melee in a cata/necro room.

56-64 AOE 1/2 hp groups in frozen lab , wolves-&gt;cats-&gt;bears , pretty easy even w/o buffbox since the mobs are slow moving and you have servitor emp3 now.

64-79 back to merrow meleeing (no suitable 1/2 hp group mobs at these lvls)

79+ AOE with magnus for the bestest , uberest exp in the game :p

Popper
10-29-2007, 10:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ponies and orcs might look "interesting" together ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally someone unrderstands me! Imagine me running around with a pinky pony, that is pimpish :):D

well if you say they are good for aoe.. why cant they group with WL, dwarfs or destroyers then? I'm lost :P

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a glutton for punishment, I am a Dominator subbed as a ES :)

Nothing as manly as summoning a Pink Uni :P

Oh Wait!!! I insist I'm an Elf!! a Green Elf, uhmmm...... Wood Elf, yeah thats it!! I have pointy ears and stuff, they are just a little small compared to other elves. :P

Fintan
11-07-2007, 01:22 AM
hello, I am ES since a month or so now and leveled from 45-51 at Pavel ruins and got very good and fast xp from the mobs with no downtime.
Now I am doing it at Frozen Labyrinth, non aggro group mobs + single mobs at the same spot, if you have no buffbot its a good place, AoE and if you are low mp just switch to single mobs.

Ayara
12-01-2007, 01:40 AM
I'm doing a little research about summoner classes as I might make one on the side for fun.

I know a little about WK and PS but nothing about the ES. What is the positive and negative points of a ES to the other two? How does their playstyle differ from the other two?

I see many people mention having an OOP buffer with their summoner. I thought summoners were the "solo" class. Why do they need an OOP buffer?

Sunspark
12-01-2007, 04:31 AM
We only have 4-5 buffs. Thats on the slim side if you compare XP rates with buffs from a PP or SE. I dare say with 2box you can get 50% more XP/hour easely. Solo class means we can solo without.

ElvenHottie
12-03-2007, 07:12 PM
Wow, lots of information on the 2 classes. I decided to go SpS because eventually I think it would be cool to PvP with my elf.

I've actually solo lvl'd her to 58 so far. It does have some downsides like the mana regen, but so far I only spend 2-3 min down at a time, and I usually lvl in areas where pots drop. With the pots its not so bad, and the extra exp using solar flare definitely makes up for the down time.

The speed is amazing, I can take on monsters 10 lvls higher than me simply because I can kill them before they reach me! I have a +4 int, a +4 con, i still have yet to add a +4 wit, so my SpS could be much faster.

Thanks for all the advise!