Player & Staff Focus Chat Two - August 2011

[Moxie]

Welcome back! Our last Player & Staff Focus Chat was very successful and provided a great way for us to answer some of your most pressing questions. I would like to continue this, and pick up on any questions that may have been missed in the last thread. If you read through the entire previous thread and did not see an answer to your question, please share your question again and we will try to answer as best we can. I think everyone understands there are some answers that we can't share for various reasons, so please keep that in mind.

Since the last thread, we've had a lot of fun activities for you all which we greatly enjoyed! And we know there is some room for improvement with some of the activities. Most recently, we had a few fun weeks of Player Appreciation followed by the Rabbit Rampage Event. Player Appreciation brought double exp/sp, double drop/spoil, no exp loss on death, free gatekeepers, GM buffs, reduced raid boss respawn times, and the use of our new Angel Cat NPC, who gives away consumable buffs you can use when you like. We were excited to bring the Angel Cat to the servers, as this is a new feature for our servers and allows players to pickup and use the free buff potions at your leisure. You may have noticed that the function of the Angel Cat didn't quite work as we had planned, but we were able to smooth things over and now have a firm grasp of how it works! One of the comments we had regarding the potions was that the buffs themselves weren't as powerful as the GM buffs that we hand out on special occasions. We are comfortable with this, specifically because we want to give you something that is convenient, like the Angel Cat, but we also want to keep the GM buffs a very special thing for you.

Goddess of Destruction continues to be an exciting topic on the boards, as it should be! It's an exciting update and we're working hard to prepare it for all of you! We have many things in the works right now, so we're not going to be able to share any dates for PTS or live launch. As soon as we can share specifics, you all will be the first to know! What we can share are the next few months of events, which will include both Double XP and in-game scripted events. We'll announce dates when things are finalized.

Another recent topic was the use and monitoring of Hero Chat. The question was asked whether inappropriate Hero Chat was something that we actively monitor. While we cannot logistically monitor Hero Chat 24/7, any reports of inappropriate chat are reviewed by the GM team, the same as any other form of inappropriate chat such as Whisper or Shout. If you see inappropriate chat anywhere in the game, you should submit a petition to the GM team so they can review.

The purpose for focus chat is to provide a single open thread where players can ask questions and hopefully get direct and fast answers. Keep in mind certain limitations, like topics that aren't ready for public discussion or topics that infringe on our ability to effectively run the game from the inside. We'll leave the thread open until the end of the month. So now the thread is open to you. Please share your thoughts, questions, and concerns.

-Moxie

[Pixie_]

Looks like the Team Bios are out of date.

Any plans to advertise Goddess of Destruction and attract new players?

I would like to request that Nevit's hour glass be added to the list of items shareable with dimensional merchant. Being able to share the undroppable, untradable event items would also be nice.

Anything going on with implementing an item shop? Just flavor items like agathons and accessory items would be nice.

[Laby]

Hello Moxie,
Finally a new chat :D

My first question will be easy. I remember the mass bot ban hammer time several months ago (is it years now ?) so we almost doesn't see any Xp/Farm bot ingame nowadays. You decided to ban them, and you did it very quickly because it was your first policy rule at this time.
Now the main issue is about "automated" programs used in PvP (I don't think I need to give you a name about such programs, topics have been made again and again). Some features of the game are totally destroyed. Do you plan to do a move against those "pvp programs" or is it not in your current policy ?


My second question is more about communication: Will you do a press tour when GoD goes live, like you did with the Kamael/Hellbound update ?

[NoOne]

reduced raid boss respawn times

-Moxie

this wasn't working at all
I have 1 question also.How we all can see players numbers is decreasing drastically every month.Wondering what will happen if GoD fails and dont bring new customers to game.Will u merge the 2 servers left or shut down L2.
I'm asking that bcuz in my opinion not many ppl will start playing L2 on retail on old servers where every1 is 85.(mby new server will rly bring some new players)
In few words what is NcWest plans for the future about L2?

[Harny]

Hello Moxie, thanks for second round.

1. Any details on how will GD launch look like? Will you launch brand new website the same day/week? Any plans for advertisments?

2. Many people are wondering how a typical working day of you or Sace looks like. Can you tell us something about that?

3. Any plans for micro-transactions? Just simple in-game shop with headgear, accessories, basic pots or else.

Thanks

[Laby]

Hey, some more questions here :D

1. I once spoke about the creation of an American version of the Korean Lineage 2 Laboratory (here : http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=207928). My main post was from an answer from Cryo the first time, and I come back today with this idea again.
I think you doesn't have at the moment the time, the people, and the money to do such a service (if you have it, use it to update website skills, you did a great work with armors and weapons !). Did you consider this idea once ? Did you consider asking players to do that ? I know some people (me the first) would be interested to do that for free for the community. Why not starting a reflexion about it ?

2. Since the last two years, there are far more website with information about Korean update than before. Is it harder for you now to communicate about updates and such since there are more infos on the internet, easily found ?

3. Could we help you to update the Lineage 2 Librairy pictures with our own armors and weapons screenshots ? :D

[Breugo]

1. Do the GM's have any events planned for the LIVE servers that are similar to the PTS' "Chaos Week"?

2. When Goddess of Destruction goes live, will the GM's throw a big "party" like they did during the 7th Anniversary Celebration?

3. Soulhounds are forced to use light armor as of now and also use rapiers as their primary weapon. in Goddess of Destruction the Soulhound class will be awakened into a nuker class and will have to use a mage weapon (if they are not using one already) and most likely robes. Will there be some kind of system during the launch that will allow soulhounds and others to trade their armor or weapons for equivalent gear (like the Blacksmith of Mammon does for D-grade to A-grade weapons)?

[Desert_Eagle]

1) After rising lvlcap to 99 there will be many bot users again, do you plan to fight bots more intensive, 24/7 live monitoring by GM's maybe? Same question about PVP cheaters.

2) About GM's actions, do you plan to change policy of interaction with players ? e.g. helping ppl on raids/instances with teleporting etc.? More GM events?

3) How will you attract new players? New server for EU is possible?

[Shadowdancer]

1) I'll echo the plea for the microtransactions; I'd love to be able to buy things like headgear, hair dyes, little changes to my character, cute little agathions with their cute tricks, or bracelets with special visual effects, a shiny mount that runs at MY character's run speed, or more types of Formal Wear or Costumes that do NOT in any way affect HOW I play.

I know there has been VAST resistance to the microtransaction shop because people don't want that money be the overarching advantage, but things like cosmetic changes? I'd like to have. These don't give me any advantage beyond 'prettifying' my character thus do not 'imbalance' the game in any form.

2) While I like the update to the website info, I feel it is still sorely lacking when compared to the massive amount of information available on the L2 PowerWiki. Mobs' drop table (without giving the rate of drop, but giving the numerical amount probability -eg '1-3 animal skins'), their XP/SP reward, and more is available there than is available to us on the NA / EU servers. And since EllieBelly's site closed down, a decision of hers that was hers alone to make, a lot of information and lore was lost to us.

2a) Tangentally related, can we PLEASE have a L2 'Fashion' setup, where we can try on, via website, what armor and weapons and such are available in the game? I know there is a fansite that does this but it no longer updates. If you wanted to have a one-up on the fansite, have the armor's stats displayed as well.

3) More Lineage II swag in the shop please!

4) I echo the feeling that L2 NA players get that the game isn't being promoted enough, even though I live in the Philippines currently. This needs updating. A live playerbase in the host country means us non-NA/EU players can still play too!

5) Speaking of playerbase: you have LOTS of Australian players, players who live in countries outside of the EU and NA jurisdiction. While I can understand the limitations of physical-prize based contests, I don't understand why contests which reward the winners and participants with ingame items like hats and agathions can't accomodate non-NA/EU players.

6) is more of a suggestion. I understand the reasoning behind kicking out someone from a raid if they disconnect, but keeping them from being able to return, especially if it's a major raid like say, Valakas or Antharas (they're just the ones off the top of my head) isn't really friendly to the people who try. Not everyone has fantastic connections and with the player base shrinking, I'd suggest that instead of the total inability to return to such a significant raid should one DC, the character instead be bound to an Instance Timer type deal. Something like reconnecting within say 15-30 minutes of DC within the raid with further conditions like the same command channel being still in there, being allowed, and you get a question option like "Would you like to rejoin your raid party?" type box like a Summon Friend spell. Just a thought.

7) I really hope that cutting down the party size won't happen. I've been hearing a LOT of players being very upset about that. Similarly, the forced clan wars don't sound fun and I've been hearing people wanting to quit if that happens. It doesn't seem conducive to maintaining an already dwindling community. Please remember the NA/EU servers don't play the same way that the Koreans play and this is something that should be addressed in the NCSKR side of things too. Do they even consider player questions from this side of the pond at all?

[Luxiel]

I was going to shout out loud some questions myself, but Laby and others got almost all pretty covered up and NC already has much to answer here, so I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks for this chat and also for the recent events and efforts to make this game more enjoyable for us, costumers :D

[Lald]

1. Are there any thoughts/plans to make Lineage2 G0D F2P (Free 2 Play) as a last ditch attempt to attract new players, bring back old players...? If so, will it be similar to LOTR OnLine and, if not, how is NC going to attract new people to L2? Considering the game is over 7 years old there must be some sort of consideration of F2P with microtransactions paying the bills...

2. PvP Programs...we the players of L2 understand that if GM's go after the program users then there will be only a handful of live players left....However, by not going after the PvP Program users moe and more legit players are leaving everyday and the bot reputation on L2 North America continues... Are there any plans to finally end PvP Program usage in Lineage 2?

3. I am 85 100%, so I am not trying to be selfish but...why not just leave dbl xp/dbl spoil/dbl drop until G0D arrives in the fall? How can it possible hurt L2 by doing this? Just make it a perma setting until G0D goes live....makes sense to me as more people will get to higher content more quickly..


Lald

[Shadowdancer]

Actually, I'd like to add that it would also be VERY NICE if more of the cosmetic items were available to us via NPC shops that are adena-purchaseable without being ridiculously expensive to get. I don't really understand why this kind of content is with-held from NA server players.

Also, will there be more games in Fantasy Isle? I'd like to see more games there, some of them preferably solo-centric to benefit the occasional player wanting to kill time while waiting.

[Syndella]

Actually, I'd like to add that it would also be VERY NICE if more of the cosmetic items were available to us via NPC shops that are adena-purchaseable without being ridiculously expensive to get. I don't really understand why this kind of content is with-held from NA server players.

+1

[terrorbyte]

Are there any plans to make Lineage 2 F2P (Free to Play)? If not, what are you doing to stop the lost players for others oficial servers free like L2RU?

[jkoster]

Once Cataclysm... err, GoD goes live, will we see any of the current lore from quests or NPC dialogue transitioned? There is a wealth of information and lore in the game right now, but with the destruction of the starter villages much of it stands to be lost.

[Luxiel]

Once Cataclysm... err, GoD goes live.

For the lulz! :D

[Jorge]

Hello Moxie Good to see you again here.

My question is about ban policy, we know Cheaters have 3 chances to be catched, before a perma ban, thats good, I guess; about this topic we made some suggestions for each strike/ban. The thread was originally open by magefan, in this thread sace said that there was an internal debate about the topic.

Have the NCstaff considered any of those suggestions?


Original Thread: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=214872

[SlyCutter]

Hey Moxie:

I have noticed this over my years of playing. Whenever I get close to someone using a "bad" program my computer starts to lag and I sometimes disconnect if their multiple bad users in one area at the same time.

I have been part of mega raids with 100+ people with no lag, and then 2vs2 pvp when I can't even move full knowning someone is using a program against me.

Is there a techinical reason why real users lag around people using the "bad" programs? Is there anything we can do the miminze the lag?

Sly

[Jorge]

Hey Moxie:

I have noticed this over my years of playing. Whenever I get close to someone using a "bad" program my computer starts to lag and I sometimes disconnect if their multiple bad users in one area at the same time.

I have been part of mega raids with 100+ people with no lag, and then 2vs2 pvp when I can't even move full knowning someone is using a program against me.

Is there a techinical reason why real users lag around people using the "bad" programs? Is there anything we can do the miminze the lag?

Sly

I Thought, i was the only one having this problem, even in oly you get lag 'till macth end, and you are dead. ppl who use this kind of software say that it doesnt produce lag :(

[Laby]

Today is friday, and it means it's the last day before the week-end, and we will prolly get some answers \o/

I would like to add one question, a bit more general that what has been said before:

A) We all know, whatever who we are (single players, clan leader, community manager, Gamemaster, Executive Producer) that Lineage 2 has less and less people playing, and the popularity of the game is decreasing. For exemple, check those datas from Google Trends :
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Lineage+2&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
On this page which show statistics about the Google request on the word "Lineage 2" we see that most of requests come from Russia,, then Ukraine, then Lituania, then Poland. Let's say it clearly, there is a lack of interest about Lineage 2 in the Western market (West EU, America mainly).
The lack of interest comes from multiple reason (game too much addictive, game too hard, too many bots, too many cheaters) and from 12 servers with an average of 2k pop, we are know here with 2 servers with an average 1.6k pop (I can't post link to server stats here because you NCSoft doesn't really wanna this data to be public :P).

My question is very simple so: Do you plan anything to get more player in the game, beside the effect of a new update ?

Some will say that going to F2P is the best option to attract people. Others will say that getting rid of ingame cheat on w/e his form is better. I don't know what is the best solution, even if I have my own opinion about it. Choosing the right thing is your work. But do you plan to do something except hoping that GoD will attract tons of new player ?

[Luxiel]

"Yesterday was Thurday,

Today is friday,

Tomorrow is Saturday, and Sunday comes afterwards..." (Rebecca Black)

@Topic

I'm also eager to know what are you guys planning to do to increase the servers population. We all know our GoD Update will probably bring more players to the yard (YAY! Second music joke in one post!.... w/e), still I can't help myself not thinking that we need something more... aggro.

So I guess the first question in number of votes is that: How do you plan to increase the population? Seem that most people that posted here asked this very same thing.

Thank you very much!
~Lux

[Moxie]

Looks like the Team Bios are out of date.

Any plans to advertise Goddess of Destruction and attract new players?

I would like to request that Nevit's hour glass be added to the list of items shareable with dimensional merchant. Being able to share the undroppable, untradable event items would also be nice.

Anything going on with implementing an item shop? Just flavor items like agathons and accessory items would be nice.

Yes, Team Bios are quite out of date. As far as website updates goes, this is lower on the priority list, as we'd like to focus on the content that is useful for players.

Yes, we do plan to advertise for Goddess of Destruction.

The Nevit's system is being removed with the Goddess of Destruction update, so we will not likely request that those be made tradeable. For event items, that is something we can consider.

No news about adding an item shop.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Hello Moxie,
Finally a new chat :D

My first question will be easy. I remember the mass bot ban hammer time several months ago (is it years now ?) so we almost doesn't see any Xp/Farm bot ingame nowadays. You decided to ban them, and you did it very quickly because it was your first policy rule at this time.
Now the main issue is about "automated" programs used in PvP (I don't think I need to give you a name about such programs, topics have been made again and again). Some features of the game are totally destroyed. Do you plan to do a move against those "pvp programs" or is it not in your current policy ?


My second question is more about communication: Will you do a press tour when GoD goes live, like you did with the Kamael/Hellbound update ?

We do have a current policy against PvP cheaters and yes, we will be putting forth the same effort towards PvP cheaters as we did the farmers.

Second question, yes, we'll be doing advertising and press with Goddess of Destruction.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

this wasn't working at all
I have 1 question also.How we all can see players numbers is decreasing drastically every month.Wondering what will happen if GoD fails and dont bring new customers to game.Will u merge the 2 servers left or shut down L2.
I'm asking that bcuz in my opinion not many ppl will start playing L2 on retail on old servers where every1 is 85.(mby new server will rly bring some new players)
In few words what is NcWest plans for the future about L2?

We have some great plans for the future, but I can't share the details at the moment.

Also, can you give more info about the raid boss respawn time reduction not working? Do you know of specific bosses that were not spawning faster than normal? Can you share some details about the times/dates that were checked? I'd like to make sure this was functioning properly if we're to use it in the future.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Hello Moxie, thanks for second round.

1. Any details on how will GD launch look like? Will you launch brand new website the same day/week? Any plans for advertisments?

2. Many people are wondering how a typical working day of you or Sace looks like. Can you tell us something about that?

3. Any plans for micro-transactions? Just simple in-game shop with headgear, accessories, basic pots or else.

Thanks

1. We don't have any details to share about the launch date yet, but yes, we have plans to advertise.

2. Typical workday for me probably looks different than Sace, so I'll let her answer for herself. I typically spend the first part of my day catching up on e-mail if I'm not in meetings. The majority of my role is to coordinate all of the teams involved in L2 or projects that pertain to L2, so I spend a lot of my time talking to those team members either on the phone, in e-mail, or via IM. I spend too much time in meetings!! I try to spend some time each day reading the boards or in-game reading chat, although there are many times when things are so hectic I'm unable to do this for a few days or maybe a week at a time.

3. No news regarding micro-transactions.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Hey, some more questions here :D

1. I once spoke about the creation of an American version of the Korean Lineage 2 Laboratory (here : http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=207928). My main post was from an answer from Cryo the first time, and I come back today with this idea again.
I think you doesn't have at the moment the time, the people, and the money to do such a service (if you have it, use it to update website skills, you did a great work with armors and weapons !). Did you consider this idea once ? Did you consider asking players to do that ? I know some people (me the first) would be interested to do that for free for the community. Why not starting a reflexion about it ?

2. Since the last two years, there are far more website with information about Korean update than before. Is it harder for you now to communicate about updates and such since there are more infos on the internet, easily found ?

3. Could we help you to update the Lineage 2 Librairy pictures with our own armors and weapons screenshots ? :D

1. While I would love to have a group of people dedicated to an L2 Lab Team, as you indicated, it's not something that is feasible for us right now. I'd also really love to have a group of volunteers, but as a company, we've run into issues with this in the past. It's certainly something I'd like to think about, but we would have to spend a bit of time coming up with such a program and how to implement it properly. I will see if Cryo has anything else to add to this answer.

2. I wouldn't say it is harder for us to communicate with the information that is out there. Certainly, I know that most hardcore players will seek the information from fansites and translations out there, and I am glad this resource is available to that group. However, I think many people wait for official information from us directly, so we have a responsibility to deliver that information as accurately as we can to those who get it directly from us.

3. Unfortunately, this is not an easy process, even if we had many submissions from users. We haven't made a final decision on whether we want to update the screenshots for that part of the library or if we will remove the screenshots entirely. This is still being discussed.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

1. Do the GM's have any events planned for the LIVE servers that are similar to the PTS' "Chaos Week"?

2. When Goddess of Destruction goes live, will the GM's throw a big "party" like they did during the 7th Anniversary Celebration?

3. Soulhounds are forced to use light armor as of now and also use rapiers as their primary weapon. in Goddess of Destruction the Soulhound class will be awakened into a nuker class and will have to use a mage weapon (if they are not using one already) and most likely robes. Will there be some kind of system during the launch that will allow soulhounds and others to trade their armor or weapons for equivalent gear (like the Blacksmith of Mammon does for D-grade to A-grade weapons)?

1. We will not likely have a "Chaos Week" on the live servers. As fun as it is, it could be very intrusive to players who do not wish to participate and I can see it being a negative experience for some. PTS is the perfect place to have such an event, which is why we've only held them there.

2. We don't have any specifics to share about the Goddess of Destruction launch, but I can say we are all very excited for the update and very excited to share it with the community!

3. This is a very good question. There isn't a system specifically to address this. I will ask the Dev Team about this during our next conversation, so we can understand if there was an issue with this for their community.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

1) After rising lvlcap to 99 there will be many bot users again, do you plan to fight bots more intensive, 24/7 live monitoring by GM's maybe? Same question about PVP cheaters.

2) About GM's actions, do you plan to change policy of interaction with players ? e.g. helping ppl on raids/instances with teleporting etc.? More GM events?

3) How will you attract new players? New server for EU is possible?

1. Yes, we will be fighting this with more intensity than previous years.

2. We've actually been doing more of this type of thing for the last 6-9 months. GM events specifically are pretty difficult to master, with the time required to plan and execute the events versus the benefits the players see. We've done a handful of these over the last year (or two?), and while they were extremely fun for us and for the players who got to participate, we were very bummed that the reach was so limited. We still continue to brainstorm ways of doing this and making it fun for MANY people.

3. I think the advertising question may answer this. I'm not sure if opening a new server would necessarily attract people, but if we see a need for one, we would definitely consider it.

-Moxie

[Yidao]

[Laby asking about using player screenshots in the Library]

3. Unfortunately, this is not an easy process, even if we had many submissions from users. We haven't made a final decision on whether we want to update the screenshots for that part of the library or if we will remove the screenshots entirely. This is still being discussed.

-Moxie


Wouldn't it be the easiest solution if you linked an item's library page to the datasheet of that item in the NCKorea Powerbook Wikipedia. Like for example write on the page of the Icarus Heavy Arms two-handed sword [here (http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/item.html#itemsTop)] the name of the weapon with a hyperlink like this:
Icarus Heavy Arms (http://power.plaync.co.kr/lineage2/%EC%9D%B4%EC%B9%B4%EB%A3%A8%EC%8A%A4+%ED%97%A4%EB% B9%84+%EC%95%94%EC%8A%A4).

NCKorea is sometimes a bit out of synch with NCWest, like right now they have GoD already live, with the level of some equipment series being changed, but on the Korean page our players could get valuable additional information like the required Stage of the Soul Crystal for an SA, the necessary Gemstones, a nice picture of the weapon, crafting information and a list of monsters who drop it. Via the links on the Korean PowerWiki people can then go on to search by themselves for the monsters who drop and spoil the key materials or the Durable Metal Plates they are still missing. Get the best of both worlds :)

[Laby]

Thank you Moxie for all your time spent to answer our questions :)

I hope you'll get a relaxed week end without too many emails :D

Laby

[Lald]

My apologies if I missed it but I saw no response about making L2 F2P in a last ditch effort to increase the gaming population....pretty sure this was asked a few times in this thread.

So again I ask: Are there any plans, discussions, thoughts as to making Lineage 2 Goddess of Destruction a Free to Play MMORPG?

Thanks

Laldaanstar

[4r4k4w4]

My apologies if I missed it but I saw no response about making L2 F2P in a last ditch effort to increase the gaming population....pretty sure this was asked a few times in this thread.

So again I ask: Are there any plans, discussions, thoughts as to making Lineage 2 Goddess of Destruction a Free to Play MMORPG?

Thanks

Laldaanstar

That is exactly my question, seeing that this model has worked pretty well for the russians.

[Laby]

May be the "No Micro Transaction" or the "No Prime shop (it's the name on the button ingame" include the answer :)

[MaoMao]

Some will say that going to F2P is the best option to attract people. Others will say that getting rid of ingame cheat on w/e his form is better. I don't know what is the best solution, even if I have my own opinion about it. Choosing the right thing is your work. But do you plan to do something except hoping that GoD will attract tons of new player ?

Actually, a F2P model will also eliminate cheating. Private server model means that the GMs are keen to stop cheaters because they aquire by cheating what GMs would sell otherwise.
Currently there is an incentive to support the cheaters because they form the big majority for once, but also because their trains pay more than a few accounts that someone can play manually.
As such, the introduction of F2P in certain conditions will not only solve the population issues, but also the cheating. Ppl will better buy from GM-shop than from bots, and the GMs will try to eliminate the competition, hopefully, not by competing in price, but by eliminating the cheaters. At present, the cheaters can dictate to NCNA because if they get banned 80% of the revenue is gone and the servers will be empty making it impossible for legits to enjoy the game even if there will be one last merger, while, if F2P is introduced, the pop problems will be solved and fine tuning about what will be sold in GM shops can be done later.
I personally believe that vita potions, perks, special pets with better stats, such as snow fenrirs are compared to regular ones, bound to the char, access to more advanced features such as improved party matching, personal page on web with some standard features and format, more avatars in the community boards for payd subscribers and many things like these will still give a chance to the freebies while alowing for big revenues from ppl that can afford to pay thousands for the game they love.
More advertising, or some advertising, rather, wont solve the current problems. It is too late to afford to wait some more and try again solutions that didnt work.
I offered before the solution of a new server where cheating wont be allowed as a premium service, either that or F2P model with premium service for paying customers.
It is too late for any other solution, in my view.
M

[Fenris von Ulfer]

Hello Moxie and fellow players

few questions :

1 How will look payment system when we enter GoD update? I believe all players here wish to know if we will go to free l2 and some kind of premium accounts or everything will be like till now.

2 Everybody is asking about how U( i mean GMs) plan to fight with cheaters usuing well know z-kinda programs :) but i am interested how u plan to punish them? It will be ban to all their accounts or deleting chars or maybe other penality?

3 What are U thinking about changing this policy about using nostromo / macro keyboards or U dont wana do any changes? Many players believe(ye me too) those rules are seriously not good. It is kinda like ban ppl for using better hardware - ssd drives or totaly nasa pc :) - So any changes about that ?

4 We are all w8 for PTS server to check new game features. Could U give any info when it will be launched ?

5 Last question for now :) - I admit ur work is preety decent till now but there are dark sides( yeee Vader like) with rumors that U arent banning ppl using z-kinda programs because there will be a lot bans and not many players would stay here. + reports aren't doind anything i mean players whith frapsed behaviour of using bot/z-kinda program are still playing. So my question is - U will ban them before GOD update or before it ?

Best wishes to U Moxie and all stuff :)

[Laby]

4 We are all w8 for PTS server to check new game features. Could U give any info when it will be launched ?


They don't give a date because they don't know themselves. There are always bad thing which occurs when you plan to do a thing, and you take some time to fix them.
They plan to do it for Fall 2011 but they don't know if it'll be in Sept, Octob or November. because of that. They don't really have a time line, they just go as fas t as possible about it :)

[Luxiel]

They don't give a date because they don't know themselves. There are always bad thing which occurs when you plan to do a thing, and you take some time to fix them.
They plan to do it for Fall 2011 but they don't know if it'll be in Sept, Octob or November. because of that. They don't really have a time line, they just go as fas t as possible about it :)

Fall ends on Dec 21th, so the Live GoD might take longer if needed... I rather w8 until next year for this update than playing in a bugged version of it.

[NoOne]

Fall ends on Dec 21th, so the Live GoD might take longer if needed... I rather w8 until next year for this update than playing in a bugged version of it.

hmmm how fall ends on 21 Dec?...for me it ends on 1 Dec and start on 1 sept

[Luxiel]

hmmm how fall ends on 21 Dec?...for me it ends on 1 Dec and start on 1 sept

Seasons of 2011:
SPRING EQUINOX March 20, 7:21 P.M. EDT
SUMMER SOLSTICE June 21, 1:16 P.M. EDT
FALL EQUINOX September 23, 5:05 A.M. EDT (Fall's Beginning)
WINTER SOLSTICE December 22, 12:30 A.M. EST (Fall's End)

Source: Almanac (http://www.almanac.com/content/first-day-seasons)

First Day of Autumn
Fall Equinox - day when night and day are of equal length
September (9/22/08, 9/22/09, 9/23/10, 9/23/11, 9/22/12, 9/22/13, 9/23/14, 9/23/15, 9/22/16, 9/22/17, 9/23/18, 9/23/19, 9/22/20)

First Day of Winter [a.k.a. Last Day of Autumn]
Winter Solstice - shortest day of the year
December (12/21/08, 12/21/09, 12/21/10, 12/22/11, 12/21/12, 12/21/13, 12/21/14, 12/22/15, 12/21/16, 12/21/17, 12/21/18, 12/22/19, 12/21/20)

Source: HolydaySmart (http://www.holidaysmart.com/seasons.htm)

Also, North America's Fall coincide with Brazilian Spring (I'm Brazilian), which goes from Sept 23th to Dec 21th or Dec 22th.

[Moxie]

Ahh, sorry for the confusing response. Laby was correct, in that we have no news about a free to play model.

-Moxie

[Laby]

Some more questions, for Moxie and for Sace too :D

Since you sometime play regular characters, have you ever beenn in a embarassing situation when people are starting to speak about GMs, NCSoft & others and asking your opinion ?

Moxie, what is the aspect of being a producer you never imagined before being it ?
Same question for Sace about being CM :D

[Moxie]

1) I'll echo the plea for the microtransactions; I'd love to be able to buy things like headgear, hair dyes, little changes to my character, cute little agathions with their cute tricks, or bracelets with special visual effects, a shiny mount that runs at MY character's run speed, or more types of Formal Wear or Costumes that do NOT in any way affect HOW I play.

I know there has been VAST resistance to the microtransaction shop because people don't want that money be the overarching advantage, but things like cosmetic changes? I'd like to have. These don't give me any advantage beyond 'prettifying' my character thus do not 'imbalance' the game in any form.

No news regarding microtransaction items.


2) While I like the update to the website info, I feel it is still sorely lacking when compared to the massive amount of information available on the L2 PowerWiki. Mobs' drop table (without giving the rate of drop, but giving the numerical amount probability -eg '1-3 animal skins'), their XP/SP reward, and more is available there than is available to us on the NA / EU servers. And since EllieBelly's site closed down, a decision of hers that was hers alone to make, a lot of information and lore was lost to us.

I would love to have a more detailed website, similar to the powerwiki in Korea. Logistically, this is a somewhat difficult accomplishment for us. However, we are always trying to think of the best solution that can be implemented for a full, functional website.

2a) Tangentally related, can we PLEASE have a L2 'Fashion' setup, where we can try on, via website, what armor and weapons and such are available in the game? I know there is a fansite that does this but it no longer updates. If you wanted to have a one-up on the fansite, have the armor's stats displayed as well.

We were really excited and proud of the armor and weapon viewer that was created for the Freya preview website. We would like to be able to implement something like this in the future, but right now, it is not in the works.


3) More Lineage II swag in the shop please!

What types of items would you like to see? I know Sace recently had a poll asking what types of swag items are desirable, which was helpful, but more geared towards contest prizes and live event give-aways. We don't have any plans at the moment to expand that store.


4) I echo the feeling that L2 NA players get that the game isn't being promoted enough, even though I live in the Philippines currently. This needs updating. A live playerbase in the host country means us non-NA/EU players can still play too!

We do plan to have an advertising campaign for Goddess of Destruction. Keep your eyes open around the Internet when we get closer to launch! (I know you don't know when launch is yet, but you will eventually. :) )


5) Speaking of playerbase: you have LOTS of Australian players, players who live in countries outside of the EU and NA jurisdiction. While I can understand the limitations of physical-prize based contests, I don't understand why contests which reward the winners and participants with ingame items like hats and agathions can't accomodate non-NA/EU players.

All contest limitations are based on legal requirements we must meet. All of our contests are reviewed and approved by our legal team. We must follow the advice of our legal team.


6) is more of a suggestion. I understand the reasoning behind kicking out someone from a raid if they disconnect, but keeping them from being able to return, especially if it's a major raid like say, Valakas or Antharas (they're just the ones off the top of my head) isn't really friendly to the people who try. Not everyone has fantastic connections and with the player base shrinking, I'd suggest that instead of the total inability to return to such a significant raid should one DC, the character instead be bound to an Instance Timer type deal. Something like reconnecting within say 15-30 minutes of DC within the raid with further conditions like the same command channel being still in there, being allowed, and you get a question option like "Would you like to rejoin your raid party?" type box like a Summon Friend spell. Just a thought.

This is an issue that needs to be discussed with the development team directly. We have actually had some conversations with them regarding this issue and hope to continue discussing it with them. Thank you for the suggestion!


7) I really hope that cutting down the party size won't happen. I've been hearing a LOT of players being very upset about that. Similarly, the forced clan wars don't sound fun and I've been hearing people wanting to quit if that happens. It doesn't seem conducive to maintaining an already dwindling community. Please remember the NA/EU servers don't play the same way that the Koreans play and this is something that should be addressed in the NCSKR side of things too. Do they even consider player questions from this side of the pond at all?

The development team does listen to feedback from each territory, however, their decisions for direction of the game has to take into consideration all territories as a whole. We will monitor this type of feedback and also analyze statistics in-game and pass that information on to the development team.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

I was going to shout out loud some questions myself, but Laby and others got almost all pretty covered up and NC already has much to answer here, so I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks for this chat and also for the recent events and efforts to make this game more enjoyable for us, costumers :D

You are welcome! We're all happy to hear that our efforts are received well. :)

-Moxie

[Moxie]

1. Are there any thoughts/plans to make Lineage2 G0D F2P (Free 2 Play) as a last ditch attempt to attract new players, bring back old players...? If so, will it be similar to LOTR OnLine and, if not, how is NC going to attract new people to L2? Considering the game is over 7 years old there must be some sort of consideration of F2P with microtransactions paying the bills...

2. PvP Programs...we the players of L2 understand that if GM's go after the program users then there will be only a handful of live players left....However, by not going after the PvP Program users moe and more legit players are leaving everyday and the bot reputation on L2 North America continues... Are there any plans to finally end PvP Program usage in Lineage 2?

3. I am 85 100%, so I am not trying to be selfish but...why not just leave dbl xp/dbl spoil/dbl drop until G0D arrives in the fall? How can it possible hurt L2 by doing this? Just make it a perma setting until G0D goes live....makes sense to me as more people will get to higher content more quickly..


Lald

I believe your first two questions have been addressed already. As for double xp/drop settings, we'll be doing these events quite a bit in the coming months. We will let you know schedules when it is time to announce the details.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Actually, I'd like to add that it would also be VERY NICE if more of the cosmetic items were available to us via NPC shops that are adena-purchaseable without being ridiculously expensive to get. I don't really understand why this kind of content is with-held from NA server players.

Also, will there be more games in Fantasy Isle? I'd like to see more games there, some of them preferably solo-centric to benefit the occasional player wanting to kill time while waiting.

Being able to provide the cosmetic type items is more of a technical obstacle to solve. We have tried to distribute them through events, contests, and server wide item insertions, but this is difficult to implement. We hope to find a solution to make them more widely available in the future.

We aren't aware of any changes or additions to Fantasy Isle with the Goddess of Destruction update. As for plans after that, I'm not aware of any additions or changes.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Once Cataclysm... err, GoD goes live, will we see any of the current lore from quests or NPC dialogue transitioned? There is a wealth of information and lore in the game right now, but with the destruction of the starter villages much of it stands to be lost.

I'm actually not sure about this. I do know that many of the NPC's will be gone, so my assumption is that those texts will be removed and not placed on other NPC's. However, I am not 100% positive about this. I will inquire with the dev team during our next discussion.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Hello Moxie Good to see you again here.

My question is about ban policy, we know Cheaters have 3 chances to be catched, before a perma ban, thats good, I guess; about this topic we made some suggestions for each strike/ban. The thread was originally open by magefan, in this thread sace said that there was an internal debate about the topic.

Have the NCstaff considered any of those suggestions?


Original Thread: http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=214872

I appreciate the suggestions and the reminder about the question. We've implemented some changes in the last couple of years to address these types of users. One thing I want to clarify is that any RMT related accounts do not get warnings. They are banned immediately. This includes farmers, spammers, sellers, etc. The system we put in place has actually been very successful. I do not believe we will make any changes to this system at the moment.

-Moxie

[OrochiGirl]

What's going to happen to the Butterfly Hairpin and Scar accessories now that the Festival of Darkness will be going bye-bye in the next update?

[Lald]

I believe your first two questions have been addressed already. As for double xp/drop settings, we'll be doing these events quite a bit in the coming months. We will let you know schedules when it is time to announce the details.

-Moxie

Uhm, so, those first 2 questions were answered? Sry, I did not see anything that clearly states Lineage 2 Goddess of Destruction will not be F2P... Did I miss it?

Please state that there are no plans whatsoever to make L2 F2P.....this will allow for me, and many others, to plan for the Fall...


Thanks

Laldaanstar

[Sace]

Uhm, so, those first 2 questions were answered? Sry, I did not see anything that clearly states Lineage 2 Goddess of Destruction will not be F2P... Did I miss it?

Please state that there are no plans whatsoever to make L2 F2P.....this will allow for me, and many others, to plan for the Fall...

Here are the responses Moxie gave to the two first topics in your original question.

We do have a current policy against PvP cheaters and yes, we will be putting forth the same effort towards PvP cheaters as we did the farmers.

Ahh, sorry for the confusing response. Laby was correct, in that we have no news about a free to play model.




2. Many people are wondering how a typical working day of you or Sace looks like. Can you tell us something about that?

Every day is different, but some daily tasks are constant throughout: reading and moderating the forums and answering PMs and questions, checking Facebook, Twitter and YouTube pages to review new comments, working through emails about on-going projects, writing weekly reports on the status of the Lineage II community, preparing for upcoming events and contests by writing and coding the event page, working with the legal team for contest terms, creating art assets for them, etc... Beyond the re-occurring tasks, there are always two or three long-term projects that I work on, some with sooner deadlines than others, and there are also the occasional surprise urgent issues when everything else is put on hold while its resolved. This is part of why I have a hydra as my forum avatar: multi-tasking is practically a job requirement. :)

Moxie, what is the aspect of being a producer you never imagined before being it ?
Same question for Sace about being CM

That's a tough question because I don't remember much from before I was CM! o.O Jk... kinda... I guess it'd have to say that this job position ended up being a lot more emotional than I expected, but not in a bad way. You can't let emotions drive your job but you can't understand a community of human beings without them. With no emotions, community management would be just a bunch of marketing numbers, as if you could assign a number to "happy." There is a lot more to the job aside from emotions, of course, but I guess you could say that the endless emotional journey in this job makes me feel... connected... in many meanings of the word.

[MaoMao]

The system we put in place has actually been very successful. I do not believe we will make any changes to this system at the moment.
-Moxie

So, this means there are no more adena sellers, no more trains (btw, I am meeting like 2-3 different ones a day and i dont exp much), no more auto CvC ?
I am sorry to say, but many cheaters left by themselves and this does create the illusion of success, but as we can see more ppl leave every day for the same reasons, cheaters and legits alike.
1. Adena farmers left because there isnt much of a market for it, the cheaters in general farm with own trains.
2. CvC cheaters left because there is no advantage for them if everyone uses same programs.
3. AFK exp trains are not seen much these days because every cheater is maxed out and you can see this in sieges, lots of white names since they dont need nevit bonus anymore.

So, it is only an illusion things are working better, true, it is not as bad as before, but the causes lie primarily elsewhere, the cheaters are still here and are still cheating, but because are maxed out, the trains mostly go out at events and sieges, as such are not everywhere anymore, but cheating wasnt solved, and we see this by the continuous decline in online presence, even if we ignore the boards and petitions.
M

[Profeta]

I would like to join to MaoMao currently a part of her comment is right. A part of the cheaters doesn't use cheats nowadays, because they already cheated so many what is enough to them to stay on the top.

I would like to ask about the next. We hear many times, that the Russian Official Lineage 2 has a really good anti cheater system what name is "Frost" do you plan, that you will install this system to our servers?

I guess the community of EU/NA would welcome this system and it would help so much in your work too.


My second question currently about these double xp and drop events.

So, I guess not so good idea keep another double xp event after the upcoming event.

1. It is always good if we have low middle and high level players who can party with new and returner players too.
2. In the Goddess of Destruction will be too high than the max level population, what can make slower and harder the game, because the player won't be able enjoy and try the new features.
Also the new players need to party too who will arrive around the GD.

And still somethings about the Goddess of Destruction.
1. Moxie you wrote, that it is the part of your daily work to watch the youtube, twitter etc.
I would like to ask why don't you upload the all official videos about the GD to youtube what has be released, the players just can find these videos on different fan channels mostly. To promote the game on youtube is free to upload the videos doesn't need so long time also.

I know, that you can't say anything still about the GD release, but I would like to tell my idea when the best release it, I guess the ideal time to make the PTS is second half of October or first half of November, to release the live GD is the best time I guess the November.
To this times mostly everyone can be here who want play with the game, no vacation, no higher or hard work time in September when many peoples return to his job or school. Also the weather become to colder peoples spend their time mostly at home.

[Laby]

I would like to ask about the next. We hear many times, that the Russian Official Lineage 2 has a really good anti cheater system what name is "Frost" do you plan, that you will install this system to our servers?


Frost is illegal in France, United Kingdom, United States and most of states because of his use: he is scanning your whole computer. Such a program is illegal :)

[Luxiel]

Frost is illegal in France, United Kingdom, United States and most of states because of his use: he is scanning your whole computer [Without your notice]. Such a program is illegal :)

Fixed for you, Laby. ^^

To scan the whole computer is legal, as antivirus and antispyware programs do that. Also, resident shield scans (live scan of ANY thing that is opened, either application or archive) are also legal. But they are legal when the user is notified cleary of what and when it's being scanned.

If you request your AV or ASpy program to scan your whole computer, it's ok. If a invisible/untouchable process (GameGuard, L2.bin, probably Frost process too) scans files not related to the product it's binded without even telling or asking the user about it, then it's illegal.

Based on this, it's possible to make things like GameGuard, which is a resident shield and a sandboxer to Lineage 2 process, legal. The problem is that GG's definitions need to me updated very often, because it can't really scans the dephs of the system to the root of the bot programs, it can only stop them going inside L2 process and stealing/injecting info.

It's effective, but needs far too many updaters with a good formation. Still none system is 100% failure or invasion proof.

Russian and Korean laws are pretty strange. I never understood why any Korean game needs you to prove that you are a real Korean Citizen (or, at least, have a Korean ID Number, which is illegal to use if you are not the real owner).

@ Moxie / Sace

I've seen a pattern in these past months, regarding double xp / double drops weeks: They are occuring with 2 weeks apart one from another.

1. Was this just a coincidence or do you tend to do 2x Events every 2 weeks until GoD goes Live?

2. Talking about GoD, can some of you guys tell us what will be the PTS configs? Are we all getting lvl 85 or lvl 99 toons to test things out or what are we getting so we can test things up?

3. I know Sace already said that you people don't plan to merge both servers but, thinking a little on it, it couldn't harm people that much to have both servers into one. Since both have low population right now, you could focus on managing only one server (and getting an uber connection and hardware, maybe at iceland, which is mid-way between the current servers). How do you see this and why it's not a good option to merge both servers into one?

4. In an hypothetical scenario, if GoD exceeds espectations and Chronos and Naia get Crowded to the top, would you open new servers? If yes, would you offer Server Transfer service for those who might want to get there?

Thank you very much for your attention
~Lux

[MaoMao]

It's effective, but needs far too many updaters with a good formation. Still none system is 100% failure or invasion proof.


It is not effective, cant do anything against packet manipulation, ie traffic interception and modification as long as the protocol is unchanged and encryption keys (even if changed regularly) are so easy to find.

The only solution is to scan all the processes, with the user consent. After all, you are forced to agree with an EULA which allows for you to be banned without any reason and without refund, how can that be less illegal than accepting your processes to be scanned ?

I am not a lawyer, but, even so, lets say it is illegal, the game can be modified to send from time to time differently encrypted messages with the number of packets it sent and got ACK for and an overall CRC. If packets were manipulated, that will fail and the cheater will be exposed.

Whether that will mean they will get "actioned" for a few days or even banned after a while, that is an entirely different matter, as I see it, it is not the impossibility to stop the cheating that we deal with here, it is the lack of interest in doing that.
Dont forget we do report cheaters, we do petition them, those are obvious trains that pacify any bunny, are coming one after another to look at your fresh drop and then move away, ppl afk in towns dancing/self-buffing/singing, even afk in the fields that keep buffing even if the rest of the party is dead or very far, those bots get reported every day, petitioned, you cant say GMs didnt know or there is any doubt, they just look the other way and copy-paste something.
Untill at least this doesnt change, there wont be an upturn, just, maybe, a slowing down of the downturn.
M

[Laby]

It is not effective, cant do anything against packet manipulation, ie traffic interception and modification as long as the protocol is unchanged and encryption keys (even if changed regularly) are so easy to find.

Server are protected, and no need to protect the client side when server side is protected for almost everything. When it's not, we have see that NCSoft take those matters really seriously.


After all, you are forced to agree with an EULA which allows for you to be banned without any reason and without refund, how can that be less illegal than accepting your processes to be scanned ?

You are not forced to anything, if you don't like the EULA you could also not play :D If you are not happy about a legal contract, I guess you just have to shutdown and say nothing, not especially saying it's illegal

[Laby]

One more question to Moxie:

Is updating gameguard to be most effective (may be like the Korean one ?) or using an other program to stop 3rd party program is an option you had, or you will consider ? Or do you prefer to do this work "by hand" ?

[Luxiel]

It is not effective, cant do anything against packet manipulation, ie traffic interception and modification as long as the protocol is unchanged and encryption keys (even if changed regularly) are so easy to find.

It is effective, if it is configured and maintained the right way. GameGuard is supposed to SandBox the Game process and let it only draw resourse of the OS like you mouse movements and your keyboards strokes, send them in packets to the server in a protected tunnel and process the response for legal (game-wise) data.

GG is effective, but demands lots of people with great minds on what may break that sandbox Or capture the packets. If GG was setted up by people like that and used to its fully potential, NOTHING except normal mouse and keyboard functions would work. Mice that require softwares would only operate as common ones, keyboars with Media, Volumen and other buttons would only operate as common ones too.


The only solution is to scan all the processes, with the user consent. After all, you are forced to agree with an EULA which allows for you to be banned without any reason and without refund, how can that be less illegal than accepting your processes to be scanned ?

Inside any constitution, one of the first sentences is always like "Every individual has his right of having privacy on his own environment, provided that that said individual don't break any other laws that may demand a break on that privacy". Scanning each and every process will need Users content, but can't be an EULA Clause. EULA must not mention ANYTHING that implies that users rights need to be given up in order to use the product. That's the same reason you must consent with the use of you image when participating in contests.

EULA states how the Costumer shall interact with the product. Since NC Soft is providing the service, they have the right to determine the punishment for unwanted behavior. So, if they get you cheating, they will ban you, since you are the one that's breaking the fair play rules, they don't must refund nor they will be forced to, as it wasn't their fault. It's just a protection to their product.

Now, scanning the whole computer means scanning things that will not have ANYTHING to do with the product they are selling. It's a clause that might force the product inside things that don't are nearly close or binded to what is being sold and, thus, can't be an EULA Clause, since it consist into a contract that must bind your whole system instead of only your account, password and Lineage 2 folder.

Also, now talking in a computer-wise manner, having a live process scan that can't be controled may lead to security breaches. It would force Lineage 2 to be running with all Memory and Resource access, having functions that would be able to get along the OS calls and sneak around between proccess. That's far too much power for a malware exploiter to use if he finds a way in.

It's true GameGuard nowadays have fully access to Admin Resources but it don't have build functions that go around the system structure (like process). It can only mess with L2 process, as it was written to mess with it and it's functions won't be able to affect directly other processes.

My final point is: Defensive behavior (Banning without notice and refund; GameGuard SandBox and policies) are allowed because NC Soft have the right to protect their product from unwanted behavior. Offensive Behavior (Actively scanning your computer for bots; Killing Process that might mess with L2 instead of blocking their access) is legally more complicated because it isn't just about defending their product: It may hurt users rights, even if he consent.

This would consist in a major change of contract in order to safe the users information and NC Soft would have to change their policies a lot to fit into this new category. The bind between them and the costumer would need to be different.

~Lux

[MaoMao]

You are not forced to anything, if you don't like the EULA you could also not play :D If you are not happy about a legal contract, I guess you just have to shutdown and say nothing, not especially saying it's illegal

Exactly my point.

To reply luxiel too, the constitution does allow for privacy, but if i strip naked in the street the ppl looking wont be taken to court, same here, if i want o play l2 without cheaters, i wont take to court ncna because it scans my processes, especially when it scans it only for some signatures, unless I am an adena dealer and big CvC fan that cant do without, but those are free not to play if they dont like the rules of the game.
While scanning is introduced later, the EULA says NC has the right to change it all the time and also the rules were known long before, if they cant cheat anymore, is not a change of rules, just a step of enforcing them.

If they get me cheating, sure, they can ban me, however EULA says everybody can be banned without reason, whether they are cheating or not.

M

[Luxiel]

Exactly my point.

To reply luxiel too, the constitution does allow for privacy, but if i strip naked in the street the ppl looking wont be taken to court, same here, if i want o play l2 without cheaters, i wont take to court ncna because it scans my processes, especially when it scans it only for some signatures, unless I am an adena dealer and big CvC fan that cant do without, but those are free not to play if they dont like the rules of the game.
While scanning is introduced later, the EULA says NC has the right to change it all the time and also the rules were known long before, if they cant cheat anymore, is not a change of rules, just a step of enforcing them.

If they get me cheating, sure, they can ban me, however EULA says everybody can be banned without reason, whether they are cheating or not.

M

I know you won't take NCNA to court, neither a botter would. But they won't be allowed to sneak into people process, they just won't be. It's not only the EULA that has to change, the whole service contract has to be adapted. If that's done, they might be able to scan things with your permition without getting laws on them.

As for they being able to ban anyone without further notice: They can do that, it's their service and you play by their rules. While they have your account they have the right to block it if they think you deserve it. The service contract you agreed upon your account creation mentions it.

But it doesn't mention that you would need to open your privacy right in order to let the game scan for bots lively. EULA can't predict anything that includes actions from the provider to the user. It's only from the user to the provider. Just read it, you will find things like "If the user does this, the provider does that" and never the other way. It predicts responses from the provider to the end user and what he may or may not do with the product. You may not cheat and if you got caught cheatting, you are open to their punishment, which may include whatever they want as long it stays strict to the user-provider relationship.

Letting they come inside without it being a respose to the user actions is illegal, because the kind of service they provide can't do that. Their provider model has to change so they are legally able to do that.

Just read some Antivirus EULA and compare. It has to do with the nature of the service provided and how the company is positioned legally to provide the service.

~Lux

[Luxiel]

the constitution does allow for privacy, but if i strip naked in the street the ppl looking wont be taken to court (...)

Sorry, but this particular point needs attention.

Legally talking, privacy happens on your own environment.

Streets are public places, privacy don't exists on public places. If you strip naked, people looking aren't breaking your privacy, but you are breaking their right of staying in a public place without being offended by indecent exposure.

But if you are naked at your house, people that get by on the streets and come to your windows to peek in are breaking your privacy, since your house isn't a public place (provided that your nakedness isn't visible from public places, that's it).

Also environment is to be seen as a metaphor. Namely you cell phone is a private environment. So, even if you drop it at the streets, someone that looks at your pics without your permition is breaking your privacy. Your ingame warehouse is a private environment and anyone that is able to look inside it without being at your side at the computer (read people that look to your warehouse at the Database and aren't part of the Company that own that data) are breaking your privacy.

[MaoMao]

Streets are public places, privacy don't exists on public places.

Exactly my point. L2 world is a public place.
Cant say to the police, hey, you dont have the right to apply the law because that means you will check my ID and that is private...
M

[Luxiel]

Exactly my point. L2 world is a public place.
Cant say to the police, hey, you dont have the right to apply the law because that means you will check my ID and that is private...
M

Your computer isn't a public place. It's a private environment. While L2 is being protected by GG, it's ok, the publicity of World of L2 and the nature of the service allows NCNA to defend their product.

Once it come to L2 being able to access you computer, it's stepping into a private environment and having access to information that wasn't supposed to be of the companies knowledgement, which requires a different model to provide a term like "can I sneak up on your process? If no, you won't play this game..." to the users...

Also, there are cases when the law must be broken to apply a larger law, but that requires a higher authority. It's what happens when the Bank Sigil is broken in order to find out where did some money go or when cops have to shoot people to apply a federal law when a state law forbid them to shoot... NCNA can sneak up on our process if we allow it but it needs a special provider model to have authorization to do that...

~Lux

PS: Don't think these stuff are that simple. The ingame world is indeed public to those that pay and play, but the game itself and the connection means along with the client and the server are private property and environment bound to NCSoft and it's branches, as well as your computer and it's contents are bound to yourself. So, depending where you are stepping, things may fall into privacy break or public rights violation (which are the so called licenses, that forbids any client modification, for example)...

[OrcZilla]

I missed the last chat, so I'd like to start this post out by quoting something that you said in that thread, then follow that with a quote from this thread:

In regards to PvP cheaters, we know there is a difference between regular farm bots and those who use PvP cheat programs. These users have not seen as much of an impact as the farm bots have, however, this is actually a big topic of discussion for us right now. I won't be able to share any details, but please know that it is something we are beginning to address. I would like you to think of the results we saw when we took a hard approach to the farm bots and please know that we hope to have the same results relating to PvP cheaters.

On that note, I want to remind everyone that it IS a violation of our user agreement to use these types of programs and you can and will be banned for these actions.

-Moxie

We do have a current policy against PvP cheaters and yes, we will be putting forth the same effort towards PvP cheaters as we did the farmers.

Second question, yes, we'll be doing advertising and press with Goddess of Destruction.

-Moxie

The bold parts of your posts should show you exactly why players simply don't believe a word that NCSoft says about how seriously they take cheating.

Since the beginning of Lineage 2's operation in NA/EU, NCSoft's company line on the subject of cheating (whether farmer/RMT cheating or PvP cheating) has always been that you take cheating very seriously, and when the player is investigated and if found to be cheating, the player will be banned (or temp banned nowadays).

Every official response (however few there are) to all complaints about the prevalence of botting/cheating in this game for seven years has always insisted that you do ban cheaters, you do whatever you can to fight the cheaters.

But, how can that be an honest accounting of the situation if you're only "beginning to address" PvP cheating?

To be clear, you've been maintaining that you do ban cheaters, you do take cheating seriously and you are doing whatever you can to fight the cheaters, while simultaneously suggesting that we're all just imagining the rampant cheating going on all around us because NCSoft is acting in earnest, banning cheaters left and right and not just ignoring them, but that hasn't been the case at all! You're only just now beginning to address PvP cheaters!

Though technically having told the truth, banning certain cheaters (that is, the farmers/RMTers) in order to earn the due diligence badge and doing a few token PvP cheater temp bans here and there in order to fit under the umbrella definition of having "banned cheaters," this kind of explains why you refused to publish separate figures for the number of farmer/RMT bans and PvP cheater bans before, doesn't it?

And before the farmer/RMTer mass bans (by which time, it was already too late to be of any real effect), you were saying the exact same things, yet the same farmers stood unbanned month after month. Did you also then finally change your policies to "begin to address" them, which resulted in the mass bans?

To reiterate, we've been complaining about PvP cheaters for almost a year (if not already a year, and on certain servers before the last merge, years before then already). NCSoft says that they're banning cheaters when they're found, and if reported cheaters aren't banned, then they obviously must not have been cheating despite it being glaringly obvious that they are cheating. It must be our collective imaginations, especially on siege weekends and in Olympiad where it matters the most!

However, it turns out that NCSoft hadn't even really begun banning for PvP cheating, and they're only now starting to do so!

So, how can you expect any of us really believe anything that you or any other NCSoft representative says from here on out about anything when you've essentially been PR-spinning your way to being technically-truthful in saying "we ban cheaters" for the last seven years? Considering the litany of stumbles, farces, and otherwise unfortunate events in this travesty you call "supporting Lineage 2," the smart money is on betting opposite of whatever you say.

C'mon, this all has to be funny as hell to someone else, too.

[Dendro]

First off, nice post Orczilla!

Before the mass ban hammer fell on the farmers/rmt cheaters, we saw individual and small amounts of accounts disappear. I suppose this was happening over the course of several months while they tested the process and warmed up the ban hammer, and while doing so they obviously compiled a nifty little list of accounts to get axed at the same time. Once they had the process developed and ready, you could literally watch the toons disappear from Giran.

Now we move onto the PvP cheaters and the same pattern seems to be emerging. They have targeted and plucked a few from the servers while they hone the PvP ban process all the while making a list, checking it twice and finding out who’s naughty and nice. Then, one day, while battles are fought on the siege field, the legits begin to see the PvP cheaters disappear! The cheaters are cursing at their screens knowing the castle will soon be overrun and taken with the legits who are still in game across the servers and they are rejoicing and hoisting their swords, axes, daggers and staffs high in the air!!!

Justification has come!! Tap the barrels!! Dance in the streets!!

It’s all coming SOON...

Is it a matter of how serious they are about cheaters or a matter of resources?

[OrcZilla]

First off, nice post Orczilla!

Before the mass ban hammer fell on the farmers/rmt cheaters, we saw individual and small amounts of accounts disappear. I suppose this was happening over the course of several months while they tested the process and warmed up the ban hammer, and while doing so they obviously compiled a nifty little list of accounts to get axed at the same time. Once they had the process developed and ready, you could literally watch the toons disappear from Giran.

The question wasn't whether or not it happened - the question is why did it take so ****ed long for it to happen while NCSoft insisted that it was doing something about the problem all along whenever we complained as NCSoft clearly wasn't doing anything about the problem (for those who will nitpick, don't even go there. There's a difference between token bans and real enforcement).

The simple fact that NCSoft finally snapped out of it and rapidly and massively reduced the number of farmers/RMTers in such a short span of time after so many years of claiming to be doing something but not really doing much at all demonstrated that they had the capability of doing something all along, but simply chose not to until that point.

All the while from day one, they claimed they took cheating seriously and that they were doing something about the cheating, when they really weren't until years later after several mass exoduses of players fed up with non-enforcement of farmers (damage already done).

Now we move onto the PvP cheaters and the same pattern seems to be emerging. They have targeted and plucked a few from the servers while they hone the PvP ban process all the while making a list, checking it twice and finding out who’s naughty and nice. Then, one day, while battles are fought on the siege field, the legits begin to see the PvP cheaters disappear! The cheaters are cursing at their screens knowing the castle will soon be overrun and taken with the legits who are still in game across the servers and they are rejoicing and hoisting their swords, axes, daggers and staffs high in the air!!!

Justification has come!! Tap the barrels!! Dance in the streets!!

It’s all coming SOON...

Is it a matter of how serious they are about cheaters or a matter of resources?

Indications are already beginning to emerge that they're being less-than-ingenuous about either their willingness to ban cheaters or their capability to detect when cheats are used.

Just this past siege weekend, new scripts were being used to make players immune to the effects of aggression skills and the other custom (though relatively old) scripts were still being used to coordinate, automate party targetting/auto-pot/etc.

The GM response? Aside from the closed petitions (closed for being reports of the same player using scripts, despite being different instances; basically "you already petitioned him once last siege weekend, and we're closing this new petition because we don't want to spend the time to investigate this separate incident" type), the "If nothing has been done about that player, then he must not have been using programs, so stop reporting" variety.

They've been telling us all along that they're doing something about the cheaters and that we, the players, are probably reporting people for cheating when they're not cheating at all because their investigations would have shown that they're cheating if they were.

Turns out that the first part of that sentence was false, as they're only now "beginning to do" something about the PvP cheaters (or claiming as such, at least), just how things only got better in regards to farmers/RMTers when they "began to do" something about farmers/RMTers.

Is it possible or even likely that the second part was also false because it was an attempt to make us question whether or not we're actually seeing what we're seeing on a daily basis (formerly farmers/RMTers, mass auto-targetting, backstab/hide immunity, auto-pot, auto-rebuff, hate immunity, etc.) in order to obfuscate the obvious fallacy of the first part?

They've already proven themselves as liars - they told us they were doing something about the cheaters, both farmers/RMTers and now PvP cheaters, only for them to finally, really do something years too late for farmers/RMTers. And now, they're only beginning to do something about the PvP cheaters, yet again demonstrating that they really didn't take PvP cheating seriously or really ban for it despite their assurances that they did before now.

Are you really going to take them at their word again?

In the end, in both cases of the famers/RMTers and now PvP cheaters, the relative few legits left in this game are proven yet again to be the idiots - we played legit while the rest cheated their collective ***** off and not only got away with it but reaped massive benefits for years while NCSoft claimed they were banning for cheating but just looked the other way.

[Laby]

The question wasn't whether or not it happened - the question is why did it take so ****ed long for it to happen while NCSoft insisted that it was doing something about the problem all along whenever we complained when NCSoft clearly wasn't doing anything about the problem (for those who will nitpick, don't even go there. There's a difference between token bans and real enforcement).

Policy change, Politics changes, Producer changes

[MaoMao]

Orzilla and dendro, I am smelling mass infractions for "spreading false rumours", attacks on "red names", for "rallying ppl to cheat and declaring you will cheat yourself" and all the like that make the day of ppl complaining about bots as well as well as substantial growth of the bot thread. :P
Probably NC Korea doesnt approve getting the company such a bad name over here and they try all they can to silence everyone who is talking about bots, which, we all know are all just some nice guys that support the game and community, without which the market will collapse, prices will rise, CvC will cease and the game will close.

As usual, they hope bots will save the game, who cares about a few unhappy stupid ppl that keep on playing by the rules in spite of all warnings, threats and suspension of accounts we did to them, both in forums and ingame, they might be that desperate that they have nothing to lose anymore, but then they should not play and move away to give us some breathing space...

We did everything to make them go, short of outright final ban, tho we threatened that, but they are still here, **** pesky vermin, but judgement day will come mwahahahah :D

Now, leaving the bitterness apart, lets be honest and agree the game cant be saved anymore, the cheating did kill it and all it is left to do is announce of the closing of this sad joke that was L2 in NA and EU.
Hoepfully the Koreans will allow a server for us in their jurisdiction, just leave it untranslated and the community will find the time to post npc dialogue translations in fan sites, soon, the real hardcore fans will learn korean if that is the price to pay to be able to play our favourite game in peace.
M

[OrcZilla]

Sucks to be her then when she has to respond to these kinds of posts.

But, really. The two "beginning to" efforts are separated by years. Both are very similar in that it has the potential of getting rid of paying customers from the user base, and both targets are guilty of cheating and generally destroying the game environment/community.

Different producers, same politics, mostly-same policy (temp bans lol), same actions.

It's my opinion that they simply didn't want to do anything (in corporate speak, it wasn't the right time financially/strategically) until now.

[MaoMao]

Sucks to be her then when she has to respond to these kinds of posts.

But, really. The two "beginning to" efforts are separated by years. Both are very similar in that it has the potential of getting rid of paying customers from the user base, and both targets are guilty of cheating and generally destroying the game environment/community.

Different producers, same politics, mostly-same policy (temp bans lol), same actions.

It's my opinion that they simply didn't want to do anything (in corporate speak, it wasn't the right time financially/strategically) until now.

1. They dont ban cheaters as of now. I reported trains that were there till they moved, because I PMed the leading char and was always on even tho the train was gone from the place i was visiting it daily. So dont imagine anything changed yet. Ther eis still time, you know...
2. The temp bans were not only a tool to pretend something is done, that even managed to fool me at first, but also a justification to unban the few cheaters that were banned before, because, ya know, they didnt have the chance these guys from today have. The GMs are suddenly increasing the subscriptions, instead of reducing them, they are finally usefull to the company...
3. You see, L2 in NA produces such losses, that maybe, finally, Koreans are beginning to look into it and stop taking that BS about different markets, old game and stuff. After the GoD release which not only that will remove one justification, but also will chase away more long-term fans, it will be finally proven that it was never the fault of the game at all, ppl did like it even more as it was before, so all those justifications in the reports sent to Seoul were just that, justifications. Judgement day is coming, and it wont be pretty. Not only that we will be proven right, but also avenged. Sadly, it is too late for the game.
M

[OrcZilla]

Orzilla and dendro, I am smelling mass infractions for "spreading false rumours", attacks on "red names", for "rallying ppl to cheat and declaring you will cheat yourself" and all the like that make the day of ppl complaining about bots as well as well as substantial growth of the bot thread. :P

In case you haven't read any of my posts in the past (I choose to visit this laughable excuse for an "official board" as little as possible to retain as much of my sanity as possible - may not have been as successful as I had hoped at that), I have been caring less and less about infractions or whatever wet noodle they're threatening us with nowadays (lol temp bans).

Though I don't think I was spreading false rumors, attacking red names, rallying people to cheat, and I definitely didn't declare that I'll cheat, it is looking like I was an idiot for not cheating all these years.

As for the bot thread, lol. That's just the place where they corral all the talk about cheaters so the forum wouldn't flow over with all the complaints about cheaters. With the bot thread in place, where all cheater talk can be conveniently moved amongst a sea of similar posts, it would almost be like there isn't much of a cheater problem in Lineage 2 to an average internet passerby, isn't it?

Probably NC Korea doesnt approve getting the company such a bad name over here and they try all they can to silence everyone who is talking about bots, which, we all know are all just some nice guys that support the game and community, without which the market will collapse, prices will rise, CvC will cease and the game will close.

As usual, they hope bots will save the game, who cares about a few unhappy stupid ppl that keep on playing by the rules in spite of all warnings, threats and suspension of accounts we did to them, both in forums and ingame, they might be that desperate that they have nothing to lose anymore, but then they should not play and move away to give us some breathing space...

We did everything to make them go, short of outright final ban, tho we threatened that, but they are still here, **** pesky vermin, but judgement day will come mwahahahah :D

Now, leaving the bitterness apart, lets be honest and agree the game cant be saved anymore, the cheating did kill it and all it is left to do is announce of the closing of this sad joke that was L2 in NA and EU.
Hoepfully the Koreans will allow a server for us in their jurisdiction, just leave it untranslated and the community will find the time to post npc dialogue translations in fan sites, soon, the real hardcore fans will learn korean if that is the price to pay to be able to play our favourite game in peace.
M

The Koreans don't want us over there. Then, they'd have to fight the cheaters when the Koreans complain and also balance the game worth a **** and not just make pretty textures and stupid Dwarf animations instead of giving them pvp/pve skills.

[MaoMao]

The Koreans don't want us over there. Then, they'd have to fight the cheaters when the Koreans complain and also balance the game worth a **** and not just make pretty textures and stupid Dwarf animations instead of giving them pvp/pve skills.

Actually, I never said we should be given the right to play in korean servers, of course they dont want 90% cheater population to join their servers and start abusing their customers, no, I meant they could in the kindness of their heart, put an old machine retired from their servers in a corner of the datacenter, throw a copy of their software, allow for latin char code but leave untranslated otherwise because that would be too much of an effort, not worth for us.
One GM/CM would suffice to keep the game clean, and I bet there are many koreans speaking english over there.
No support whatsoever, just allow us to pay with the TC we have or with CC, leave us to figure out their payment site, ppl will post guides on how to click and where, just give us a home, no matter how bad, please :(
M

[Syndella]

Please stop derailing the thread...

[OrcZilla]

1. They dont ban cheaters as of now. I reported trains that were there till they moved, because I PMed the leading char and was always on even tho the train was gone from the place i was visiting it daily. So dont imagine anything changed yet. Ther eis still time, you know...

I left the game for a year, I think during the Hellbound chronicle/throne/whatever and most of the next.

From before I left to after I returned, only two things remained the same:

1) NCSoft claimed to be serious about cheating and also claimed to ban for cheating.

2) The same player that I reported every day for months before I left was still botting away in the same, exact spot. An entire year+ later.

1) + 2) = ????

The player was finally banned months later when I PMed the then-Community Manager about it. First and only ray of hope I have ever seen from NCSoft support to this day.

2. The temp bans were not only a tool to pretend something is done, that even managed to fool me at first, but also a justification to unban the few cheaters that were banned before, because, ya know, they didnt have the chance these guys from today have. The GMs are suddenly increasing the subscriptions, instead of reducing them, they are finally usefull to the company...

I laughed when I heard about the temp bans. Reminds me of when HGM Spam changed his anime cartoon's dialogue to something less confrontational and more pleading, addressed to farmers.

3. You see, L2 in NA produces such losses, that maybe, finally, Koreans are beginning to look into it and stop taking that BS about different markets, old game and stuff. After the GoD release which not only that will remove one justification, but also will chase away more long-term fans, it will be finally proven that it was never the fault of the game at all, ppl did like it even more as it was before, so all those justifications in the reports sent to Seoul were just that, justifications. Judgement day is coming, and it wont be pretty. Not only that we will be proven right, but also avenged. Sadly, it is too late for the game.
M

I think that Lineage 2 is flawed from design.

WoW had bots in mind as indicated by its basic loot and gameplay philosophies.

Lineage 2's design almost promotes cheating as a necessity.

Lineage 2 is moving clumsily towards WoW's design while trying to hang on to as much of its grind requirements as possible (destroying the game economy in the process) because the designers can't figure out how to create a compelling game experience to keep people playing (and subscribed) in lieu of the grind.

GoD may change all that, but it's still not looking good for the game economy and grind requirements thus far afaik.

[MaoMao]

Please stop derailing the thread...

So you think this is a minor issue not worth taking into consideration when we adress the staff ? Cheating has already been addressed and it is all moot by now ?
It should all be about how happy we are that cheaters finally are maxed out and parade their trains only at events and sieges ? All praises and bows ? Thanks for making space for legits because the bots are quitting out of boredom ? For the infractions, for the supporting of -_- and -_- that destroy legit clans for adena ?
No, no matter what threats, till I will not be banned I will still point out what I think is flawed in this "design" of a payd game supported by adena dealers accounts.
We either pay for the game and the cheaters are kept out, or we dont, and then the cheaters will be banned anyway because will compete with the GMs.
The "best of 2 worlds" is not possible, as anyone can figure out.
M

[Syndella]

So you think this is a minor issue not worth taking into consideration when we adress the staff ? Cheating has already been addressed and it is all moot by now ?
It should all be about how happy we are that cheaters finally are maxed out and parade their trains only at events and sieges ? All praises and bows ? Thanks for making space for legits because the bots are quitting out of boredom ? For the infractions, for the supporting of -_- and -_- that destroy legit clans for adena ?
No, no matter what threats, till I will not be banned I will still point out what I think is flawed in this "design" of a payd game supported by adena dealers accounts.
We either pay for the game and the cheaters are kept out, or we dont, and then the cheaters will be banned anyway because will compete with the GMs.
The "best of 2 worlds" is not possible, as anyone can figure out.
M

Stop being so dramatic... Maybe you need to take a break from the game.

[Lald]

Great Posts Orczilla

The questions I asked in this thread about F2P are exactly the reasons Orczilla has pointed out: I no longer want to have to pay to play Lineage 2 if nothing is changing. If the game is F2P and people cheat so be it, but why the hell am I gonna pay any longer for a game where cheaters still are able to cheat....

If L2 is to be F2P then I stay, if notm time to roll...


Lald

[Syndella]

If L2 is to be F2P then I stay, if notm time to roll...

While I agree that something should be done while we're paying I do not agree that F2P is a viable solution. For me if the game goes F2P I go somewhere else.

[MaoMao]

Great Posts Orczilla

The questions I asked in this thread about F2P are exactly the reasons Orczilla has pointed out: I no longer want to have to pay to play Lineage 2 if nothing is changing. If the game is F2P and people cheat so be it, but why the hell am I gonna pay any longer for a game where cheaters still are able to cheat....

If L2 is to be F2P then I stay, if notm time to roll...


Lald

For me the F2P issue is somewhat of a big dilemma.
While I certainly dont like to pay ppl to lie me and do nothing, help -_- and all, I dont have any problem with 100$ or so a month that I pay for me and a few other ppl (BTW, great job in adding paypal as an option, I can send money without having to log in ppl's accounts, even in places where I cant buy TC for ! This was a great move, albeit very late, but still congratulations !).
If the game goes F2P AND microtransactions are offered for items that dont greatly impact the chances of ppl which dont pay, I would pay at least the same, but if cheaters continue to mock us, then I will just keep playing without giving any money. Tho it wont make any sense at all, in a F2P environment, to continue to protect cheaters because that will be so obvious it takes out potential revenue, that even NCNA ppl will understand it.
If, however, there will be armors, weapons, safe enchants, etc on sale, then while I wont leave, I will take up the challenge and lead a clan of ppl that wont buy that because it will be same cheating as now, only legal.
From what I know, this view is also shared by the big majority of the ppl I know, and it appears here in the forums as well, even current cheaters are not thrilled by this idea, not least because will cut some of their revenues in RL money.
Ppl will feel good to pay more like as a donation for the hard work of the ppl running the game, but I doubt NCNA will agree with F2P because they cant offer a service that will make ppl reach for their wallets, this is probably the real reason for which F2P is out of the question and they will better close the game like in L1.
M

[oderon]

Russian and Korean laws are pretty strange. I never understood why any Korean game needs you to prove that you are a real Korean Citizen (or, at least, have a Korean ID Number, which is illegal to use if you are not the real owner).
Some countries just like to have "Big Brother" attitude and want to know what their citizens are doing.
MMOs for example can be used by terrorists to coordinate their plans, or even by normal people to spread some dangerous opinions that are not approved in public :P

[Leonidar]

This might sound like a question that don't really matter that much but I am still curios, will the ingame petition window ever be rewamped?
I mean doing ingame petitions as it is today is pretty useless, trying to fit something in to 255 characters when writing something to a GM is really hard.
And sadly many times one get a response that I should get back with more information? I think you know were I am getting at.

[Laby]

How many people are working in each team ? What are all the different teams existing and working for Lineage 2 ? Yes I'm asking for an organigram :P

What is the most stressful problem you ever faced as working for Lineage 2, the one who affected you the most. TW Badges problem ? A server crash ? A merge ?

What is the main topic of this week you should do until Friday ?

What are the operations done during a regular maintenance ? Is it only software side, or there are some hardware maintenance too ?

[MaoMao]

This might sound like a question that don't really matter that much but I am still curios, will the ingame petition window ever be rewamped?
I mean doing ingame petitions as it is today is pretty useless, trying to fit something in to 255 characters when writing something to a GM is really hard.
And sadly many times one get a response that I should get back with more information? I think you know were I am getting at.

Yeah, I get the same problem. I try to squeeze all in there then the GM complains that is not clear and i should bring more information.
While for reporting trains there is usually enough space even for names like XxXoOooxoOoXxX mutiplied by nine and soon only by seven, for exploits and bugs that is much harder.
M

[Laby]

Even if you are ingame, it's fare more effective to do a petition using the Web service :)

[Moxie]

Hey Moxie:

I have noticed this over my years of playing. Whenever I get close to someone using a "bad" program my computer starts to lag and I sometimes disconnect if their multiple bad users in one area at the same time.

I have been part of mega raids with 100+ people with no lag, and then 2vs2 pvp when I can't even move full knowning someone is using a program against me.

Is there a techinical reason why real users lag around people using the "bad" programs? Is there anything we can do the miminze the lag?

Sly

We are aware of this happening, but aren't able to disclose anything related to technicalities of why. Unfortunately, I do not have any advice for minimizing the lag at this time.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Today is friday, and it means it's the last day before the week-end, and we will prolly get some answers \o/

I would like to add one question, a bit more general that what has been said before:

A) We all know, whatever who we are (single players, clan leader, community manager, Gamemaster, Executive Producer) that Lineage 2 has less and less people playing, and the popularity of the game is decreasing. For exemple, check those datas from Google Trends :
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Lineage+2&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
On this page which show statistics about the Google request on the word "Lineage 2" we see that most of requests come from Russia,, then Ukraine, then Lituania, then Poland. Let's say it clearly, there is a lack of interest about Lineage 2 in the Western market (West EU, America mainly).
The lack of interest comes from multiple reason (game too much addictive, game too hard, too many bots, too many cheaters) and from 12 servers with an average of 2k pop, we are know here with 2 servers with an average 1.6k pop (I can't post link to server stats here because you NCSoft doesn't really wanna this data to be public :P).

My question is very simple so: Do you plan anything to get more player in the game, beside the effect of a new update ?

Some will say that going to F2P is the best option to attract people. Others will say that getting rid of ingame cheat on w/e his form is better. I don't know what is the best solution, even if I have my own opinion about it. Choosing the right thing is your work. But do you plan to do something except hoping that GoD will attract tons of new player ?

Yes, we plan to do some things to attract more players. I can't divulge any details at this time.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

"Yesterday was Thurday,



Tomorrow is Saturday, and Sunday comes afterwards..." (Rebecca Black)

@Topic

I'm also eager to know what are you guys planning to do to increase the servers population. We all know our GoD Update will probably bring more players to the yard (YAY! Second music joke in one post!.... w/e), still I can't help myself not thinking that we need something more... aggro.

So I guess the first question in number of votes is that: How do you plan to increase the population? Seem that most people that posted here asked this very same thing.

Thank you very much!
~Lux

See previous answer. I wish I could tell you all the plans, but now is not the time. :)

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Wouldn't it be the easiest solution if you linked an item's library page to the datasheet of that item in the NCKorea Powerbook Wikipedia. Like for example write on the page of the Icarus Heavy Arms two-handed sword [here (http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/item.html#itemsTop)] the name of the weapon with a hyperlink like this:
Icarus Heavy Arms (http://power.plaync.co.kr/lineage2/%EC%9D%B4%EC%B9%B4%EB%A3%A8%EC%8A%A4+%ED%97%A4%EB% B9%84+%EC%95%94%EC%8A%A4).

NCKorea is sometimes a bit out of synch with NCWest, like right now they have GoD already live, with the level of some equipment series being changed, but on the Korean page our players could get valuable additional information like the required Stage of the Soul Crystal for an SA, the necessary Gemstones, a nice picture of the weapon, crafting information and a list of monsters who drop it. Via the links on the Korean PowerWiki people can then go on to search by themselves for the monsters who drop and spoil the key materials or the Durable Metal Plates they are still missing. Get the best of both worlds :)

This is an interesting idea and I think it would be beneficial to existing veterans of the game, as they would understand everything they are looking at. But to link a newer user to the Korean page would be confusing and likely a poor experience. Pulling that data to our site with translation text is our main goal. However, we are still working towards a permanent solution for all of the library updates.

-Moxie

[Laby]

Ty Moxie, i'm curious about your secret evil plan to dominate the world, and attract more players :D

[Lald]

Ty Moxie, i'm curious about your secret evil plan to dominate the world, and attract more players :D

Uhm,,,perhaps the focus of this "secret evil plan" should first be on retaining the players they already have?

Makes sense to me....


Laldaanstar

[Dendro]

Uhm,,,perhaps the focus of this "secret evil plan" should first be on retaining the players they already have?

Makes sense to me....


Laldaanstar

Sorry, this can't happen because, according to so many people, when the ban hammer comes down on the PvP cheaters there will only be about ten people total on each server...so they have to work on attracting new peeps to L2.

At least I'll be here to greet the newbies! :)

[Profeta]

Yes, we plan to do some things to attract more players. I can't divulge any details at this time.

-Moxie

I would like to expand Laby's comment with 2 things:
1. The Lineage 2 has different name in every different Asian country, so we can count much higher "trend index" at world wide.
2. If you see the trend indexes of another MMOs you can see, that same happen with them too they are under the "1 trend index" too.

But, yes need to find the way to increase the population. I don't care some much about these sites what show the server online number, they aren't official results, but as I know normal start from 3k online peoples.
But need keep in mind some years ago when the NCsoft posted the top online numbers and account numbers in regions we could see, that in China was 10-15 times more active accounts like was the top online number on whole servers.

So currently the lower online number not far not sure, that mean lower active accounts too.

[MaoMao]

We are aware of this happening, but aren't able to disclose anything related to technicalities of why. Unfortunately, I do not have any advice for minimizing the lag at this time.

-Moxie

In numerous ocasions cheaters said that is not true, their programs dont cause lag in sieges, for example, just need SSD's, connections under 1 ms ping and latest alienware and everything will work out.
While probably that is needed for them if they would use normal clients for their trains, in other markets where cheating is not allowed, higher population servers with 3-4-5 times the ppl we have at a siege, lag, while exists, is way lower than here where you cant do anything in 50+ ppl area just watch the debuffs and then the 30 k blow from invisible ppl.
I fully agree my hardware is not the best (but conection is among the best in romania which was last time i checked in top 3 contries regarding inet download speed and 5th for upload in the whole world*), however I did participate in siege in the russian servers just to test and for 4-5 times the ppl, lag is about half as here, with same hardware and internet connection, while ping is higher over there.
If you have no advice about how to minimise lag caused by cheating, I will help you a bit:
How about cutting the cheating and see how lag goes ?
Alternatively, continue to allow cheating and the population drop will eventually make it playable at sieges, like it happened in Franz before merger, in a few months we will have about same pop in Naia as it was in Franz towards end.
M
*Source: http://www.netindex.com/

[Laby]

Am I the only one thinking that if 3rd party programs make others lags, it's a matter of packet flood ?
Too much action in a short time compared to a normal human player



How about cutting the cheating and see how lag goes ?
Agree with this sentence :D


One more question, and even if it's really controversious or whatever, I would like it to be answered:

Do anyone of NCSoft actually tried 3rd party programs such as [examples of programs removed] or whatever ? I mean, more than knowing there are programs. Do you know them ? Do you know how they do work? Do you study them to counter them ?
You could do like the ostrich, put your head in the ground and say there is a problem and I don't know what to do to fix it or you could study cheaters to understand how they think, how they work to counter them.
Just Know your ennemy

[Luxiel]

Am I the only one thinking that if 3rd party programs make others lags, it's a matter of packet flood ?
Too much action in a short time compared to a normal human player


If this is the real problem, there is an easy fix to that: Limit the number of packets/actions recieved by server from one client in a little slice of time.

Also they could set a delay between actions recieved. This last one could also fix some SS problem BUT it might slowdown the gameplay a little (which I personally would like. I don't like playing RPGs that goes like 2-sec PvP, both players smashing 3 or 4 buttons and BAM someone dies).

EDIT: I hope they don't got all "Infraction Time" on your comment for it have names of illegal (EULA Breaking) software, which they might consider as "advertising".


Do you know them ? Do you know how they do work? Do you study them to counter them ?


EDIT2: Pretty nice question and arguments. I want to see that answered too. I mean, I've read and watched Twlight series prior to judge it and know how good or bad Sthephanie Meyer can write and how that story can be useful to me (Lame but still valid comparison, I know).

[Laby]

EDIT: I hope they don't got all "Infraction Time" on your comment for it have names of illegal (EULA Breaking) software, which they might consider as "advertising".

It worth it, and actually I'm clean of infraction. It'll not be a surprise since, even if those words already exists on the boards :D

[MaoMao]

It worth it, and actually I'm clean of infraction. It'll not be a surprise since, even if those words already exists on the boards :D

Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.
Some ppl are allowed to do many things, others cant even talk about prices in marketplace or clan rules in recruiting thread, so, if you see cheaters doing some things, dont imagine you will be allowed too, even normal, within the written rules stuff, is not allowed for legits, so be careful.
If this is the real problem, there is an easy fix to that: Limit the number of packets/actions recieved by server from one client in a little slice of time.
They cant do that, only ppl in korea can access the source, here they just install some build and translate stuff.
However, there is another flaw in what you suggest, not only that will slow down the gameplay, but will also put a lot of load on the server to do real-time checks on packets, keep timers for actions and things like these.
Banning cheaters can be done automatically, tho, if you do 10 assists per minute, it is doable if you dont do anything else, but at 100 there is no doubt who is doing the assists, the man or the machine, so, lets say, over 10 assists pe minute, 3 min automatic freeze, such as the chatban or something similar. This will also show everyone in the battlefield without a shadow of a doubt, who is cheating in which clan. It has same disadvantage as being impossible to access the code, but something like this, for other actions as well, could be usefull in other jurisdictions too.
M

[Laby]

More "soft" questions :)


1) During the Korean PTS, a realatively new system has been implanted to improve the security of your account: before login a character, you should click on numbers to write "PIN" code. Do you plan to implant this one ?

2) Is it possible to get more stats about our servers ? Specifically about classes, to know the class most played in NA servers & others :)

[4r4k4w4]

They cant do that, only ppl in korea can access the source, here they just install some build and translate stuff.
However, there is another flaw in what you suggest, not only that will slow down the gameplay, but will also put a lot of load on the server to do real-time checks on packets, keep timers for actions and things like these.
Banning cheaters can be done automatically, tho, if you do 10 assists per minute, it is doable if you dont do anything else, but at 100 there is no doubt who is doing the assists, the man or the machine, so, lets say, over 10 assists pe minute, 3 min automatic freeze, such as the chatban or something similar. This will also show everyone in the battlefield without a shadow of a doubt, who is cheating in which clan. It has same disadvantage as being impossible to access the code, but something like this, for other actions as well, could be usefull in other jurisdictions too.
M

They can do this traffic shaping at the router level, so it would be transparent to the server and on a platform that they control.

[MaoMao]

They can do this traffic shaping at the router level, so it would be transparent to the server and on a platform that they control.

Hum, so you are thinking of something like layer7 where the packets will be decrypted, inspected, figured out what actions did the char, set timers, stop the next packets if the treshold has been reached, send a fake ACK otherwise the client will keep sending the packets, even DC depending on some stuff, I cant even start to imagine the problems this will cause...
The router will have to be extremely smart and act as a "man in the middle" server, while i dont think it is impossible, dissassbling the code and patching it in assembler looks like a much simpler option...
Simple packet flood can be solved at router level, effectively disconnecting the clients sending too many packets because will discard them, but I can imagine there are legitimate actions where packet flood can occur. Are they ?
M

[Laby]

Obivous solution: block the cheat programs :D

[Luxiel]

Obivous solution: block the cheat programs :D

Obvious Answer: They can't :D

[MaoMao]

Obvious Answer: They can't :D

Not so obvious. While blocking the programs might be diffcult (there are hardware KB and mouse simulators to run programs completely transparent to the computer on which l2 runs), discovering the users of those programs is a piece of cake.
Any player can set traps for bots knowing their behaviour, GMs have a much wider array of possible tests.
The only obvious answer is: They dont want to :D
M

[pix]

making the bot report button unuseable if ur in war with the person u want to report, whilst i understand it could be used maliciously ,,,, sometimes u only realise ppl r bots when u kill, they auto accept rez or some such, which u would only know if u war them. Not permitting waring clans to report each other i doubt reduces the malicious reports giving everyone has alts so what was the thinking behind this ?

[Moxie]

Sorry, I don't have much time today to answer questions, but I was able to ask this question last week during discussions with the dev team.

I'm actually not sure about this. I do know that many of the NPC's will be gone, so my assumption is that those texts will be removed and not placed on other NPC's. However, I am not 100% positive about this. I will inquire with the dev team during our next discussion.

-Moxie

Dev team has confirmed that at Goddess of Destruction launch, this lore will not be available. They noted this is a good suggestion and may discuss the possibility of having the lore somewhere in-game for perusal in the future.

-Moxie

[jkoster]

Dev team has confirmed that at Goddess of Destruction launch, this lore will not be available. They noted this is a good suggestion and may discuss the possibility of having the lore somewhere in-game for perusal in the future.

-Moxie

Fair enough. I just wish I had time to screenshot everything.

Thank you!

[Luxiel]

The only obvious answer is: They dont want to :D

"They can't" can be translated to this as well, hence why I said that. :D

~Lux

[Moxie]

Hi folks,

Wanted to let you know we are busy busy with PAX preparations this week, so I will not have a chance to answer questions. We'll return next week with more free time. :)

-Moxie

[pix]

Pax ?

[Moxie]

Pax ?

PAX (http://prime.paxsite.com/)! We will be doing a presentation and a meet and greet on Saturday, in Seattle.

-Moxie

[pix]

no wiser what does pax stand for ?

[Syndella]

no wiser what does pax stand for ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wiki+pax+game

[pix]

ah tyty ^^

[MaoMao]

making the bot report button unuseable if ur in war with the person u want to report, whilst i understand it could be used maliciously ,,,, sometimes u only realise ppl r bots when u kill, they auto accept rez or some such, which u would only know if u war them. Not permitting waring clans to report each other i doubt reduces the malicious reports giving everyone has alts so what was the thinking behind this ?

I dont think anyone is looking into report score some chars have, there was at least one permapurple and nothing was done, even if you write petition, still you get copy-paste answer and train stays.
Over the years have been numerous "enhancements" to protect the bots, from impossibility to train in dungeons, to banning bot killers, when the bot report button has been introduced, everybody was stunned as it was a major break from the usual way of NC, it was obvious for some it will be nerfed soon, and it was.
You cant use in town, MRT, etc, even if the "person" is dancing/singing/selfbuffing AFK for hours, because in town many ppl can see and will get permapurple fast, for example, we dont want to scare the bots, make sure they feel protected and supported, after all they are saving the game right now...
M

[Mareesha]

I have not been posting (or reading) the forums much lately, preferring to spend my time playing L2 before Goddess removes more content from the under lvl 86 part of the game, but I have some questions and comments.

1) is the deletion of Content from the older part of L2 going to continue until there is nothing left (assuming there is anything left now but the grind) except the new content being made for Goddess?

2) Is the information about PKs in TW, as posted on the L2 Website intended to be misleading?
There it states "Player Kills: PK (player kill) counts do not apply while on the battlefield. There is no PK penalty because the clan battle status is maintained even when enemies go outside the battlefield."

This gives the impression that if a participating Character has not got to a participating Castle or Fort, and is not flagged or in a War, that being killed would give the killer a PK and cause them to turn RED. That is how it works at Castle Sieges. That is not how it works during TW.

As most of the PvP/PKer/Griever players and clans by now know, any TW signed toon which is not on a battlefield can be freely killed and will suffer full exp loss. The attackers/killers will become flagged, but will not become RED. Going outside the Battlefield is not needed.

It is nice to see that the Developers are giving the PK/Griever community a bit of love, particularly with the heavy restrictions coming in Goddess. Hopefully they have also considered the side effects of making TW the main PK/Grieving opportunity in the game. With the greatly accelerated leveling expected in Goddess, people will not have 4 or 5 months to sit in town gathering 100 TW badges to get Noble/Sub. It will also make the other nice items available from TW much harder or impossible to get for those who do have or get their 100 badges. This will particularly discriminate against any new players who come into L2 with Goddess, and could create a block on Character development as hard as Stabbing Baium (which I never had to do) was.

So my question on this is, is the information intentionally misleading? And perhaps also, is this outcome, the intent of the Developers?

P.S. I saw that it's also possible to Rez toons on TW battle fields with spells and scrolls. Please note that it is.. sometimes. Sometimes it works, and sometimes you get a message saying it can not be done. This feature added little benefit to the game content.

3) just a comment on the problems of game/server growth if Goddess does prove very successful. It is far easier to merge servers than unmerge them. The option of moving a few of my toons, even at no extra expense, with only a tiny bit of their gear and gathered resources is too stupid to consider. L2, unlike some more recently developed games (which probably have seen the situation L2 is in and are dodging it) has no support for moving full accounts, clans, including all warehouses, inventory, etc. to other new servers.

Creating a new fresh server, like was done in the Euro area during the first round of mergers in NA, can be done. That server was I heard from friends who did try it, heavily botted, which people needed to get gear, adena and exp to get anywhere close to the other Euro servers. I considered moving, but decided that my play style would not benefit and continued developing my existing Characters. At this point, and with the much heavier pressure to restrict bots, I'm not sure how new players starting a new server would do, particularly once lvl 99 Characters were allowed to arrive from the existing 2 servers.

I hope NC will not merge the Euro and NA servers, but leave both running until the game finally shuts down. That would allow some room for player growth, but I fear that 2 servers is the most we will ever see here.

Should NC find they absolutely do need to add another server in either area, I would suggest giving all starting Characters permanent real gear for all levels up to at least 79 or 84. That gear might need to be Account bound (probably a wise idea and something that can be done). Also, it might be necessary to block movement of Characters to the new servers until such time as a certain density of R grade or even lvl 99 players have been able to develop.

This might create a new server which will offer a positive experience for those who end up playing there. There are probably some other things which would be required to make it successful also. My suggestion is in no way exhaustive, but creating a new server is not just a matter of buying a box, loading an OS and the L2 server software, and letting people join it or worse, transfer there.

4) The great L2 myth. "Everyone returns to L2!". At one level it is true. I have seen a lot of former players return. For a few days or a couple of weeks. None have stayed. Others have just talked about coming, remembering the good times they had here fondly. Remember things unfortunately which I've been rarely able to do in the last 2 years. Those I have continuing communication with, many are people I only knew in L2 and have lost now they are gone, are off playing other games on other servers run by other companies. This as we all recognize is not a good situation. We can only hope that the Developers in Korea will get lucky and find a winning combination.

Mare

[TetiusRaules]

I come back to May Player and Staff focus, as some questions are still pending ;)

Items that are not transferable are set by the Dev team. We can make requests for things to be transferable, however, the final decision is up to the Dev team. What items are you referring to? There may be specific reasons for different items, so I would need to know which items you mean in order to answer more directly.

-Moxie

-Moxie

here come answer and a few adding questions :

*****************

From the rules :
What is Non-Transferrable?
The following items will not be transferred.
All items in your inventory that are not equipped.
Items in your warehouses and freight.

I speak about items like (list is not complete) :

- Panda agathion and other rare items given as contest rewards,
- Daewonsoo agathion and others appreciation gifts,
- All agathions from past events (like Cupid one)
- Chrono souvenirs
- cloaks from quests/events
- one shot quest items (raccoon, rabbit and those ears, formal dress, dawn bracelet, palaika rewards...)

*******************

Speaking about formal...
Why not open cloak equipement hability ?
The pearl anniversary one fits nicely with it and i'm pretty sure some players would enjoy to wear both at same time (with level limitations of course).

******************

I remember Korea Dev team told us, when fantaisy island released, we will got a Wedding feature coming with it. Is it still on plans ? When this feature is about to come ? Will we get wedding rings as the same as they were existing for Lineage ?

*****************

What will happen to festival exclusive drops like scars and butterfly hairpin ?
They were rare but at least we got a very little chance to get them.
Today with GoD upcoming and catacomb/festival enclose ....

******************

I got remaining a Chest of Event with some Jack'o Lantern transformation stick on a char i don't delete only to save the item. Why not opening transfer through dim service to those items or, better make the stick perment ? I think some others players are in same situation as me.

*****************

I thank a lot all the team for those topics and I hope those questions will find answers.

[MaoMao]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hUy9ePyo6Q

[Moxie]

Hello Moxie and fellow players

few questions :

1 How will look payment system when we enter GoD update? I believe all players here wish to know if we will go to free l2 and some kind of premium accounts or everything will be like till now.

2 Everybody is asking about how U( i mean GMs) plan to fight with cheaters usuing well know z-kinda programs :) but i am interested how u plan to punish them? It will be ban to all their accounts or deleting chars or maybe other penality?

3 What are U thinking about changing this policy about using nostromo / macro keyboards or U dont wana do any changes? Many players believe(ye me too) those rules are seriously not good. It is kinda like ban ppl for using better hardware - ssd drives or totaly nasa pc :) - So any changes about that ?

4 We are all w8 for PTS server to check new game features. Could U give any info when it will be launched ?

5 Last question for now :) - I admit ur work is preety decent till now but there are dark sides( yeee Vader like) with rumors that U arent banning ppl using z-kinda programs because there will be a lot bans and not many players would stay here. + reports aren't doind anything i mean players whith frapsed behaviour of using bot/z-kinda program are still playing. So my question is - U will ban them before GOD update or before it ?

Best wishes to U Moxie and all stuff :)

1. In regards to Free 2 Play or premium accounts, we are always evaluating what is best for the community, but right now we have no news.

2. There are very few instances where we "delete" characters, one of those being during a server merge when there are too many characters for the final server. We would not delete characters as a way to punish anyone. All punishments would be in the form of a ban or in some cases related to RMT, removal of Adena or items obtained from RMT Adena.

3. We have not had any recent discussions regarding Nostromo, so no changes with that.

4. We have not announced any dates for PTS yet.

5. "rumors that U arent banning ppl using z-kinda programs because there will be a lot bans and not many players would stay here. "

These types of rumors are absolutely false. Our GM team always works hard to gather evidence of characters using third party programs and then to remove them. They are also always researching different ways to gather this type of evidence.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Some more questions, for Moxie and for Sace too :D

Since you sometime play regular characters, have you ever beenn in a embarassing situation when people are starting to speak about GMs, NCSoft & others and asking your opinion ?

Moxie, what is the aspect of being a producer you never imagined before being it ?
Same question for Sace about being CM :D

Yes, I've witnessed players saying things about the staff. Sometimes good things, sometimes bad things. That's actually part of why I like us to play, so we can see honest opinions. If the negative opinions are something that we can change, I work to make those changes. Sometimes the opinions are a little off base, sometimes based on false rumors, etc. I've never been straight up asked my own opinion and I've never voiced an opinion. That would just be weird and wrong.

Something I never imagined: how stressful it is. It's definitely the most rewarding job I've ever had, but even after hearing many people over the years talk about the feelings of stress, I didn't fully understand it until the last year. But it's worth it. :)

-Moxie

[Moxie]

What's going to happen to the Butterfly Hairpin and Scar accessories now that the Festival of Darkness will be going bye-bye in the next update?

We asked a similar question to the Dev team about rewards that would be going away. They let us know these items would be available elsewhere in the game, but I haven't specifically asked about the Butterfly Hairpin or Scar accessories. I can check on that for you.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

So, this means there are no more adena sellers, no more trains (btw, I am meeting like 2-3 different ones a day and i dont exp much), no more auto CvC ?
I am sorry to say, but many cheaters left by themselves and this does create the illusion of success, but as we can see more ppl leave every day for the same reasons, cheaters and legits alike.
1. Adena farmers left because there isnt much of a market for it, the cheaters in general farm with own trains.
2. CvC cheaters left because there is no advantage for them if everyone uses same programs.
3. AFK exp trains are not seen much these days because every cheater is maxed out and you can see this in sieges, lots of white names since they dont need nevit bonus anymore.

So, it is only an illusion things are working better, true, it is not as bad as before, but the causes lie primarily elsewhere, the cheaters are still here and are still cheating, but because are maxed out, the trains mostly go out at events and sieges, as such are not everywhere anymore, but cheating wasnt solved, and we see this by the continuous decline in online presence, even if we ignore the boards and petitions.
M

Our opinions on the successes of our efforts are not only based on what can be seen in-game, but also on what we see in analytics behind the scenes. I don't think I will ever be able to say that we will be 100% free of these types of users. I think that is an impossibility for any MMO. My comment was based on the success of our efforts as compared to previous years. I believe the changes have been successful and have helped make the game a more fun place to be.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

One more question to Moxie:

Is updating gameguard to be most effective (may be like the Korean one ?) or using an other program to stop 3rd party program is an option you had, or you will consider ? Or do you prefer to do this work "by hand" ?

We have and do consider all of the options. Gameguard has actually been helpful for us in identifying certain situations, we discuss and consider other solutions similar to Gameguard, and some of the investigations are done by hand. (So all of the above. :P)

-Moxie

[Yidao]

2. There are very few instances where we "delete" characters, one of those being during a server merge when there are too many characters for the final server. We would not delete characters as a way to punish anyone. All punishments would be in the form of a ban or in some cases related to RMT, removal of Adena or items obtained from RMT Adena.


I am not sure whether this is a wise policy. Please take a look at this video of the "Destroy the Dark Spirit Demons" campaign quest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUGVZhxWfU4&feature=channel_video_title

As you can see, there are far less quest monsters than players, which leads to a situation like with the "Rattle Bump" event treasure chests on Fantasy Island. The players in the video are Koreans, who like to do things manually, whereas our player population being what it is, there will certainly be bad persons who will use auto-targeting programs to get an advantage over the "pedestrians". It would be really good if you could see your way to not only ban but actually delete the accounts of 3rd party software users. Not as a form of punishment but in a joyful spirit of selection and garbage disposal.

"Goddess of Destruction" is simply not suitable for server populations of several thousand players. You might want to run this article through Google Translator:
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=390&l=845

Because of the insane leveling speed, everybody in Korea has in the meantime wound up in the Hall of Orbis, the end game hunting ground; they often don't even need five minutes to complete a Zone Quest for which the developers have allotted half an hour. This overcrowding leads to a lot of unhealthy phenomena.

GoD is what it is, you can't change that. What you can change is the social environment, and since the server populations must be cut in half anyway to provide a happy gaming experience for everybody, it would be a good choice to take out first of all those players who can't behave in a civilized way :)

[NoOne]

i have a very good idea how to attract ppl to the game....Just close all other servers
And now the question...are they allowed by ncsoft to run or they break NCsoft copyrights?

Why NCsoft don't just sue them and close them all?....prolly is enough to contact them and tell them close your server or u go to jail....

just wondering...

i know , i know my english is the best

[CypherZ]

Moxie, any plans on having a 2x EXP/Drops till GoD hits? (Similar to what happened with Aion 2.5)

Alot of people that I know of(casual players) are taking a break till GoD because of the improved levelling curve and said that it would be pointless to level now because it'll be easier when GoD hits.

[Profeta]

I would like to ask the next:

As we could read you plan many service upgrades in the close future, like website update, powerwikipedia, control same strong hands the pvp cheaters as the farmer bots and the real money trader players, also we could read that you have plans to increase the number of players and still some other plans.

So Do you plan to release all these changes when the Goddess of Destruction will release too or these will release in different times?

[4r4k4w4]

To Moxie and Sace:

What level is the character that you play? Did you achieve it without boosting it with your gm powers?

[MaoMao]

Our opinions on the successes of our efforts are not only based on what can be seen in-game, but also on what we see in analytics behind the scenes. I don't think I will ever be able to say that we will be 100% free of these types of users. I think that is an impossibility for any MMO. My comment was based on the success of our efforts as compared to previous years. I believe the changes have been successful and have helped make the game a more fun place to be.

-Moxie

I agree the game is getting more enjoyable for legits as the bots are quitting. Nobody says the game can be free of cheaters, you are right, there isnt such a thing, however, we are still far from the times when the cheaters are the minority.

In Naia there are 3-4 real legit clans right now and they are doing great while the bots are shuffling their "const" around, but no real growth is happening there, on the contrary.
Sure, with GoD's level 99 that will change, it all depends on how good the legits will manage to hold the line and accept inevitable losses in order to preserve their core for future growth and aggregation, but, in general, if the server population continues to drop, there wont be any merger and no shutdown, on the long term, legits will win, with or without NC support.
M

[JohnDoe]

Do you have frequent conversations with Korean Developers ? Do you make suggestions to them ? Have they implemented anything that suggested only from NA/EU Region ?

Do NCSOFT KR staff browse our message boards ? Have they expressed any opinions regarding NA/EU population ?

In GD we will have a Hall of Fame Museum/NPC. Have you ever thought / discussed a similar Hall of Shame ? Some stats that nobody would like ot see next to toon "Name ? Coloring "Name / mass bans would be better imho but maybe too harsh / illegal / meaningless / financial damaging from a corporate company view. Would an NPC listing "bad" stats would be a problem ? I guess not since there are no problems listing "good" stats.

I was thinking of a top 10 in some categories like

1) Number of well defined and documented petitions regarding a specific "Name
2) Number of GM checks that observed peculiar behavior but could not document a ban regarding a specific "Name
3) Weird ratio's that don't fit observed metrics like frequency & quantity of adena changes / time online, PvP won / time online, IP changes per specific toon / month, contiguous XP hours / total hours online

There are many more numbers and ratios that none would like to see his / her "Name beside even though no EULA breaking could be proved.

To avoid exploiting some Hall of Shame features, there could be some automatic weight factor for "popular" toons that regularly make it to the normal Hall of Fame .. Its normal that they will have some some more petitions / imba ratios even if not cheating .. A weight factor seems fair ..

Have you ever thought any ways to discourage use of programs instead of just ban some of the offenders ?

What would be your position of mildly penalizing suspected offenders in steps ? Like a debuf that increases in level as long as peculiar activities are continued ? That way almost nobody can know what has happened except the offender (and his party) that gradually looses "super powers" until start playing game the intended way ?

Buff Level 1 : Decreasing all Stats 5% for 1 day
Buff Level 2 : Decreasing all Stats 10% for 2 days
Buff Level 3 : Decreasing all Stats 20% for 4 days
Buff Level 4 : Decreasing all Stats 40% for 1 week
Buff Level 5 : Decreasing inventory slots 50%, weight limit 50%, introducing chance to drop if killed even if not chaotic for 2 weeks

Have you ever used a similar mechanism in detecting at least PvE bots ? That kind of bots may not pose a big issue atm with level cap kept to 85,100% for so long and with so many XP events but in GoD leveling becomes relevant again.

Using a CP elixir when CP suddenly drops to half cannot definately prove something but ...

Removing buffs that are instantly replaced while at the same time no action is taken (stop XP / regroup / chat / etc) while toon / party abilities are heavily penalized at the same time by a "weird" debuff is a crystal clear bot case .. I still remember the days that by just laying adena to the ground we drove bots down cliffs and to all kind of places where they could stuck .. They took their measures by just not picking up what was not theirs but ...

If there was an item

a) Completely new
b) With item_id changing very often, taking random values and never using an already used value
c) Seem like it was dropped by "offending" toon

We could use again old times tactics to detect bots

In GoD there is a built in ability to record straight to .avi format. To prove that someone is using a program an experienced player does not need more than 30 sec video. Since it can be proved that a original L2 client video is authentic (or its very easy to make it work that way) have you ever discussed the idea of accepting GD .avi as a proof of using an illegal program ? A simple web form to post that .avi to NCSOFT and a GM examining it would be far more cost effective than examining petitions, searching for offender, going there, making tests, writing reports etc, etc.

Have you ever thought of using bot program engineering against them ? What if an IG button did not only made a video capture but also created an encrypted file that would contain all stats of "other" ppl involved ? I guess that NCSOFT staff has some things / numbers in mind while "manually" checking for the use of programs. What if the REC button recorded all that useful info ? A simple parser would make it extremely easy to determine which cases need "manual" examination / human interaction. A simple reader used by NCSOFT staff could overlay selected stats of selected toons displayed on the 30 sec recording. Something like spectator mode in Oly but with more functionality could further document a clear violation of EULA.

2 Command Channels, about 10 parties, IT, Tezza PvP ..
CC command: ALL ATTACK "Name
Me: Hitting with Hurricane every 5 seconds, for at least 30 sec, nobody bothers
Me: Arcane, Enlightenment, Wind Votex, Slug, Aura Cannon, in that 5 sec I got 3-4 debufs, 3-4 buffs stolen, disarm a dagger on my back and a Kamael in front of me

It's far beyond human abilities to turn a number of players against a non-factor (me) coordinating a series of actions while ignoring me for at least 1 minute (30 sec doing nothing, 30 sec slowly using hurricane). It was very "funny"? becoming the center of universe for 2 seconds after being ignored for 1 minute ..

IF we had a "trusted" recording with an encrypted container file detailing game specifics we could easily, almost instantly and automated, identify offenders with auto PvP programs. NCSOFT staff interaction would be minimal to identify and document the case. A Level 1 Debuff for 1 day would be easy to give and not that harsh in case of an error.

If all these seem difficult / need effort / money that do not exist .. Have you ever discussed the possibility of video captures used as evidence of breaking the EULA ? Many players won't get into making another petition because they are bored to do something they did so many times in past with no success .. Just pressing a button and uploading using a simple web form is another issue ..

On the game server population ... Have you ever discussed with Korean's the F2P option ? Do they have any involvement in that or it is solely an NCNA decision ?

We all know that there is a huge number of private servers operating with ranging time span, population etc. Have you ever run any scenario of influx of players IF official servers were converted to F2P ? What was the results ?

[Syndella]

In GD we will have a Hall of Fame Museum/NPC. Have you ever thought / discussed a similar Hall of Shame ? Some stats that nobody would like ot see next to toon "Name ? Coloring "Name / mass bans would be better imho but maybe too harsh / illegal / meaningless / financial damaging from a corporate company view. Would an NPC listing "bad" stats would be a problem ? I guess not since there are no problems listing "good" stats.

I was thinking of a top 10 in some categories like

1) Number of well defined and documented petitions regarding a specific "Name
2) Number of GM checks that observed peculiar behavior but could not document a ban regarding a specific "Name
3) Weird ratio's that don't fit observed metrics like frequency & quantity of adena changes / time online, PvP won / time online, IP changes per specific toon / month, contiguous XP hours / total hours online

There are many more numbers and ratios that none would like to see his / her "Name beside even though no EULA breaking could be proved.

To avoid exploiting some Hall of Shame features, there could be some automatic weight factor for "popular" toons that regularly make it to the normal Hall of Fame .. Its normal that they will have some some more petitions / imba ratios even if not cheating .. A weight factor seems fair ..

Have you ever thought any ways to discourage use of programs instead of just ban some of the offenders ?

This has been suggested often and as stated by NCsoft multiple times there are tons of legal issues (especially in the USA) surrounding such things - I think the term was "public slander".

[AndreasK]

Posting the name of a person who was banned for botting is not "slander".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander

Slander is a false accusation (not a fact) and there is no defaming if a person got banned.

[Dreamer]

Dear Moxie,

why dont we get informed after reporting a bot if he got temp baned/final ban?
Why dont we get a respone if the player we reported rly is botting?
I mean it would help a lot, cos from time to time ppl get accused to bot and get reported, but still around. If the petitioner would get a response "the person was legit" it would be more usefull.

If its not possible, then pls tell in detail why not cos it was done in the past too (loved the funny Announcements "xxx was a bad guy has been detected botting").

[Laby]

Dear Moxie,

why dont we get informed after reporting a bot if he got temp baned/final ban?
Why dont we get a respone if the player we reported rly is botting?
I mean it would help a lot, cos from time to time ppl get accused to bot and get reported, but still around. If the petitioner would get a response "the person was legit" it would be more usefull.

If its not possible, then pls tell in detail why not cos it was done in the past too (loved the funny Announcements "xxx was a bad guy has been detected botting").

Sace already answered about this one, the answer is somewhere in the suggestion topic speaking about what we could do again players whichj are botting (solutions and sanctions). It's all about reputation, a company can't calomn players

[Luxiel]

This post of mine (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3082671&postcount=10) has some definitions of offenses like that.

Telling who was banned for what, if not stated in EULA that they would do that, would fall in some of the cases I explained on the linked topic.

~Lux

[Jorge]

Moxie as Producer, I have a question related to safety aspects.

As a customer and l2 player, I would like to know, is there a minimal opportunity for any employee of NA-NC to act inappropriately, in aspects of personal information, or to interfere with aspects of the game that violates some ethical principles, which could have a negative impact in the community, if so, is there any control mechanism to prevent something like this happen?

[JohnDoe]

This has been suggested often and as stated by NCsoft multiple times there are tons of legal issues (especially in the USA) surrounding such things - I think the term was "public slander".

The proposed method does not constitute any kind of accusation .. There won't be any definite conclusion .. It will be just numbers .. Actual ones .. AFAIK there is no legal ground procecuting someone for just publicizing some game scores /statistics .. You do not advertise them, nor make them publicly available or relate them with some real name .. It's just 1 NPC in game that gives access to some game stats ..

And that's why I proposed the specific method .. It SHOULD be legal because NCSOFT NA WILL implement that kind of NPC anywayz with GD .. I just propose to add some more numbers to the same NPC or make a similar NPC with other kind of stats ..

Personal opinion about one NPC being good / advertising some players and other NPC / numbers causing trouble to other players should not have a legal ground ..

Its like having SOME companies making public Q1/Q2/Q3/Q4 reports except the ones with bad numbers .. Or making public the list with the top ones only .. I suggest that we have the list for everyone or at least TOP / BOTTOM ..

No discrimination or "slander" ..

[Dreamer]

Could we get atleast some puplic info if ppl got accused to use any 3rd party and after they got checked the result was "no they are clean"?

Rly rly want it, since some known person accused me recently on this forum botting in GC....

[MaoMao]

Could we get atleast some puplic info if ppl got accused to use any 3rd party and after they got checked the result was "no they are clean"?

Rly rly want it, since some known person accused me recently on this forum botting in GC....

That is not necessary, because, as long as you are still playing, it is supposed in many clans, that you are clean.
Ppl believe NC does ban bots, and, as such, nobody which can play ever botted (well, that did change recently and you are allowed to bot 2 times before ban occurs).
M

[Cabbie]

As a customer and l2 player, I would like to know, is there a minimal opportunity for any employee of NA-NC to act inappropriately, in aspects of personal information, or to interfere with aspects of the game that violates some ethical principles, which could have a negative impact in the community, if so, is there any control mechanism to prevent something like this happen?

It has been said in the past that NC monitors all activities of its employess that have accounts (both work and personal accounts) that could interfeer with game play that is not authroized by management.

iirc - NC employees are not allowed to even join clans of non-NC employees unless authorized.

[MaoMao]

And that is really sad, IMO, because they cant interact with the "community" and see what problems ppl face.
They dont meet the everyday trains, dont get insulted, dont read hero chat, etc.
They also cant appreciate this game, for them it is just another job from 9 to 17, couldnt care less in the day l2 will be closed.
Really, really sad :(
M

[ChikariShu]

I would think ther be aneasier way to south all minds , and prolly even bring a ton of players back.
As said above, most cheaters are also pvp'ers, u'r rarely gonna see a PVE'er cheat because then he'd miss all the fun of the hunting part wich thy like or even role players wont cheat cuz they care less about levle then about social activities.

The answer is extremely simple then to satisfy both groups who really hate each other for not playing the same ways.

An PVP server and a PVE server.
Instead of a euro server and an american server, wich totally adds up to nothing because there's americans on the euro one even more then on american one and euro's on the american one, more then on the euro one.

[Pumuky]

I have a question, when the next patch comes live, is ncsoft going to continue with their policy or reducing the price at wich items can be sold to the npc as those items become increasingly easy to be obtained?

Would be nice to know so i can sell the stuff now and not see it reduced to 10% of its price.

ty

[Miyazaki]

I would think ther be aneasier way to south all minds , and prolly even bring a ton of players back.
As said above, most cheaters are also pvp'ers, u'r rarely gonna see a PVE'er cheat because then he'd miss all the fun of the hunting part wich thy like or even role players wont cheat cuz they care less about levle then about social activities.

The answer is extremely simple then to satisfy both groups who really hate each other for not playing the same ways.


Not all legits want to only do PVE. They like PvE sure, but the game also means PvP and executing a clan strategy. Cheaters (sorry for the 'us and them' tone) are often maxed out and their only fun comes from PvP and sometimes from grieving none maxed characters.

Bad PvP behavior comes mostly from being maxed in combination with being a bad person. This could be a cheater, this could be a legit.


An PVP server and a PVE server.
Instead of a euro server and an american server, wich totally adds up to nothing because there's americans on the euro one even more then on american one and euro's on the american one, more then on the euro one.

Forget it, this game is PvE AND PvP, NC soft just has to work on making PvP fair again (as much as possible). Also, making events on one 'western' server would be a nightmare beyond comprehension. Sorry, but 5 am I sleep, I won't go to do any kind of RB or join in any kind of event at such times.

[Yidao]

I have a question, when the next patch comes live, is ncsoft going to continue with their policy or reducing the price at wich items can be sold to the npc as those items become increasingly easy to be obtained?

Would be nice to know so i can sell the stuff now and not see it reduced to 10% of its price.

ty

Last week the NPC buy price for A~R-Grade Crystals was reduced in Korea:
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=251&start=40#p4683

Other than that the NPC prices will remain the same.

[Yidao]

Not all legits want to only do PVE. They like PvE sure, but the game also means PvP and executing a clan strategy. Cheaters (sorry for the 'us and them' tone) are often maxed out and their only fun comes from PvP and sometimes from grieving none maxed characters.

Bad PvP behavior comes mostly from being maxed in combination with being a bad person. This could be a cheater, this could be a legit.

...

Forget it, this game is PvE AND PvP, NC soft just has to work on making PvP fair again (as much as possible)...

In Korea, and until recently also in Thailand, they do have non-PvP servers for teenagers and Buddhists. Those servers also have some non-gambling (or better call it "reduced gambling") aspects:
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=251&start=10

[Pumuky]

Just wondering if we're getting a heads up or they will do it like they have until now during regular maintenance without mentioning anything at all on the notes.

[Yidao]

The basic question is what patch state we will get when GoD goes live on our servers. Since in the same patch Tyr Warriors were given a whole new skill, my personal guess would be that we get GoD at least as of September 7, i.e. with the lowered NPC prices. But even Moxie won't be able to tell you that with any finality :)

As to your original question whether you should sell your Crystals before the update - if I were you I would wait until the PTS and first check out the NPC prices there. The reason for the price reduction was that there existed a shortage of those Crystals on the Korean servers (scroll a bit upwards from the post I have linked above). So if against all expectation NCWest should not implement that change, it is to be expected that there will be a similar shortage on our servers (actually that can already be observed) and you might be able to sell your Crystals on the market in Giran at a high price :D

[Moxie]

I missed the last chat, so I'd like to start this post out by quoting something that you said in that thread, then follow that with a quote from this thread:


The bold parts of your posts should show you exactly why players simply don't believe a word that NCSoft says about how seriously they take cheating.

Since the beginning of Lineage 2's operation in NA/EU, NCSoft's company line on the subject of cheating (whether farmer/RMT cheating or PvP cheating) has always been that you take cheating very seriously, and when the player is investigated and if found to be cheating, the player will be banned (or temp banned nowadays).

Every official response (however few there are) to all complaints about the prevalence of botting/cheating in this game for seven years has always insisted that you do ban cheaters, you do whatever you can to fight the cheaters.

But, how can that be an honest accounting of the situation if you're only "beginning to address" PvP cheating?

To be clear, you've been maintaining that you do ban cheaters, you do take cheating seriously and you are doing whatever you can to fight the cheaters, while simultaneously suggesting that we're all just imagining the rampant cheating going on all around us because NCSoft is acting in earnest, banning cheaters left and right and not just ignoring them, but that hasn't been the case at all! You're only just now beginning to address PvP cheaters!

Though technically having told the truth, banning certain cheaters (that is, the farmers/RMTers) in order to earn the due diligence badge and doing a few token PvP cheater temp bans here and there in order to fit under the umbrella definition of having "banned cheaters," this kind of explains why you refused to publish separate figures for the number of farmer/RMT bans and PvP cheater bans before, doesn't it?

And before the farmer/RMTer mass bans (by which time, it was already too late to be of any real effect), you were saying the exact same things, yet the same farmers stood unbanned month after month. Did you also then finally change your policies to "begin to address" them, which resulted in the mass bans?

To reiterate, we've been complaining about PvP cheaters for almost a year (if not already a year, and on certain servers before the last merge, years before then already). NCSoft says that they're banning cheaters when they're found, and if reported cheaters aren't banned, then they obviously must not have been cheating despite it being glaringly obvious that they are cheating. It must be our collective imaginations, especially on siege weekends and in Olympiad where it matters the most!

However, it turns out that NCSoft hadn't even really begun banning for PvP cheating, and they're only now starting to do so!

So, how can you expect any of us really believe anything that you or any other NCSoft representative says from here on out about anything when you've essentially been PR-spinning your way to being technically-truthful in saying "we ban cheaters" for the last seven years? Considering the litany of stumbles, farces, and otherwise unfortunate events in this travesty you call "supporting Lineage 2," the smart money is on betting opposite of whatever you say.

C'mon, this all has to be funny as hell to someone else, too.

I can't speak on behalf of those who made decisions for the game before me, I can only focus on what the direction of the current staff is. No, I can't blame you or any other player for having doubts, but I will still encourage hope, as we do continue working on ways to improve.

My intention of the quoted comments above wasn't that nothing whatsoever has been done over the last 7 years, as that is not the case. We have had GM's on staff since the before the game launched and they do work to find characters violating the rules of the game. They do remove these types of users on a regular basis. However, our goal is to provide vast, marked improvements in this area, similar to the improvements we were able to show with farmers/botters/spammers last year.

-Moxie

[NoOne]

welcome back Moxie....long time didn't see u...can u share some info with us about how GoD update is going?....

[Moxie]

The question wasn't whether or not it happened - the question is why did it take so ****ed long for it to happen while NCSoft insisted that it was doing something about the problem all along whenever we complained as NCSoft clearly wasn't doing anything about the problem (for those who will nitpick, don't even go there. There's a difference between token bans and real enforcement).

The simple fact that NCSoft finally snapped out of it and rapidly and massively reduced the number of farmers/RMTers in such a short span of time after so many years of claiming to be doing something but not really doing much at all demonstrated that they had the capability of doing something all along, but simply chose not to until that point.

All the while from day one, they claimed they took cheating seriously and that they were doing something about the cheating, when they really weren't until years later after several mass exoduses of players fed up with non-enforcement of farmers (damage already done).



Indications are already beginning to emerge that they're being less-than-ingenuous about either their willingness to ban cheaters or their capability to detect when cheats are used.

Just this past siege weekend, new scripts were being used to make players immune to the effects of aggression skills and the other custom (though relatively old) scripts were still being used to coordinate, automate party targetting/auto-pot/etc.

The GM response? Aside from the closed petitions (closed for being reports of the same player using scripts, despite being different instances; basically "you already petitioned him once last siege weekend, and we're closing this new petition because we don't want to spend the time to investigate this separate incident" type), the "If nothing has been done about that player, then he must not have been using programs, so stop reporting" variety.

They've been telling us all along that they're doing something about the cheaters and that we, the players, are probably reporting people for cheating when they're not cheating at all because their investigations would have shown that they're cheating if they were.

Turns out that the first part of that sentence was false, as they're only now "beginning to do" something about the PvP cheaters (or claiming as such, at least), just how things only got better in regards to farmers/RMTers when they "began to do" something about farmers/RMTers.

Is it possible or even likely that the second part was also false because it was an attempt to make us question whether or not we're actually seeing what we're seeing on a daily basis (formerly farmers/RMTers, mass auto-targetting, backstab/hide immunity, auto-pot, auto-rebuff, hate immunity, etc.) in order to obfuscate the obvious fallacy of the first part?

They've already proven themselves as liars - they told us they were doing something about the cheaters, both farmers/RMTers and now PvP cheaters, only for them to finally, really do something years too late for farmers/RMTers. And now, they're only beginning to do something about the PvP cheaters, yet again demonstrating that they really didn't take PvP cheating seriously or really ban for it despite their assurances that they did before now.

Are you really going to take them at their word again?

In the end, in both cases of the famers/RMTers and now PvP cheaters, the relative few legits left in this game are proven yet again to be the idiots - we played legit while the rest cheated their collective ***** off and not only got away with it but reaped massive benefits for years while NCSoft claimed they were banning for cheating but just looked the other way.

I understand the frustration you have with the responses you've seen over the years. I want to again clarify that the intent of my comments was not to say that no efforts have been made with previous leaders of Lineage II. I know that efforts were made and accounts were closed on a regular basis. The intent of my comments were to show that our goal is to give the players more noticeable results in this area of the game. We are actively working towards this goal.

In regards to your petitions being closed inappropriately, can you share with me the petition number or ticket number? Or even PM the name of the character you used to send the petition with the server name. I'd like to look into some of these responses.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

This might sound like a question that don't really matter that much but I am still curios, will the ingame petition window ever be rewamped?
I mean doing ingame petitions as it is today is pretty useless, trying to fit something in to 255 characters when writing something to a GM is really hard.
And sadly many times one get a response that I should get back with more information? I think you know were I am getting at.

The in-game petition window is being worked on, however, we have not made a request to increase the character limit in the window. This is something I can check on with the dev team.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

How many people are working in each team ? What are all the different teams existing and working for Lineage 2 ? Yes I'm asking for an organigram :P

What is the most stressful problem you ever faced as working for Lineage 2, the one who affected you the most. TW Badges problem ? A server crash ? A merge ?

What is the main topic of this week you should do until Friday ?

What are the operations done during a regular maintenance ? Is it only software side, or there are some hardware maintenance too ?

There are many teams at NCwest that are shared between games, so it's difficult to give a precise number as to how many people in each team that work specifically for Lineage II. There are numerous teams, including customer support, quality assurance, production, brand, community, web development, billing development, operations, to name a few. We have anywhere from 1-3 people we work with on a regular basis in each team, though depending on the project, we may have as many as 5 people on a single team dedicated to Lineage II. As projects begin and end, this number can fluctuate.

One of the more tiring issues I faced was following a server merge when quests were lost. More for a personal reason, I had to catch a flight early the next morning. So staying until 3:00 AM while the team finalized the fix was a bit tiring! But worth it. :)

The main topics of each week lately aren't topics I can discuss just yet. We have all been extremely busy with these plans!

Regular maintenance always includes database maintenance, but also can include software updates (like Windows updates), hardware updates, event based updates, etc.

-Moxie

[Moxie]

Am I the only one thinking that if 3rd party programs make others lags, it's a matter of packet flood ?
Too much action in a short time compared to a normal human player



Agree with this sentence :D


One more question, and even if it's really controversious or whatever, I would like it to be answered:

Do anyone of NCSoft actually tried 3rd party programs such as [examples of programs removed] or whatever ? I mean, more than knowing there are programs. Do you know them ? Do you know how they do work? Do you study them to counter them ?
You could do like the ostrich, put your head in the ground and say there is a problem and I don't know what to do to fix it or you could study cheaters to understand how they think, how they work to counter them.
Just Know your ennemy

Yes, we are studying them directly.

-Moxie

[Laby]

Thx moxie for answers :)


Yes, we are studying them directly.

-Moxie

Omg, best response so far :D

[Moxie]

More "soft" questions :)


1) During the Korean PTS, a realatively new system has been implanted to improve the security of your account: before login a character, you should click on numbers to write "PIN" code. Do you plan to implant this one ?

2) Is it possible to get more stats about our servers ? Specifically about classes, to know the class most played in NA servers & others :)

Yes, we are aware of the secondary PIN system that was introduced in Korea. We would like to implement this here, but it requires some development time on our end as well as coordination with the Korean dev teams. When there is more information to share regarding this schedule, we will let you know.

-Moxie

[Luxiel]

Yes, we are studying them directly.

-Moxie

NC Staff: Officially Cheaters! :eek:

Jokes apart, it's good to know that you all got yourselves into the underground world to know who are you fighting against.

Thank you very much!

~Lux

[Moxie]

welcome back Moxie....long time didn't see u...can u share some info with us about how GoD update is going?....

Testing is going well. This is a VERY LARGE update! We are all very excited about it, but also extremely busy!!

-Moxie

[Wedge]

What about Anakims in GoD?
In GD, the new classes and their skills will greatly overshadow the power of the Anakim transformation.
But
sace you are 100% wrong the anakim sealbooks get boosted like all the xforms get boosted when GoD hits cause i play on the KR GOD server and your are 100% wrong anakim still a problem in KR.

[washtak]

I think "studying directly" doesn't mean trying them. It means getting info about them and watching at players using them.

And yes, we're waiting for an answer about Anakims.

[NoOne]

What about Anakims in GoD?



i saw an movie from korea 2 partys with anakim vs 1 party w/o anakim and the 2 partys lost

[n00dles]

i saw an movie from korea 2 partys with anakim vs 1 party w/o anakim and the 2 partys lost

from what i've seen from the skills descriptions theres nothing good as anakim skills for wizards.

two 197 power holy aoes costing 72 mp and with reuse shorter then the new nukes.
plus all the + on the basic stats.

ppl who never/dont play(ed) the game and had the effort to biuld a toon just dont know what they are talking.. like sace superiors.

[OrcZilla]

I can't speak on behalf of those who made decisions for the game before me, I can only focus on what the direction of the current staff is. No, I can't blame you or any other player for having doubts, but I will still encourage hope, as we do continue working on ways to improve.

Really?

Do you really think that it's appropriate or reasonable for your customers to pay you to do a job and have to hope that you'll actually do that job? Shouldn't that kind of be expected, rather than hoped for?

Get this straight: We pay you to do a job, and even though your job encompasses more than just EULA enforcement (which itself falls into the quality/service assurance sector), you're still ******* getting paid to do it. Not hope to do it, but ******* do it.

My intention of the quoted comments above wasn't that nothing whatsoever has been done over the last 7 years, as that is not the case. We have had GM's on staff since the before the game launched and they do work to find characters violating the rules of the game. They do remove these types of users on a regular basis. However, our goal is to provide vast, marked improvements in this area, similar to the improvements we were able to show with farmers/botters/spammers last year.

-Moxie

One pvp program user a year is "regular." Once a decade is "regular."

You can't seriously tell me that any kind of enforcement you've put forth on this front has been anywhere near meaningful beyond providing grounds on which you can say the words "we ban ****" in official communications.

Otherwise, siege weekends wouldn't have been littered with the same names using the same programs since the last merge.

You were "regularly" banning botters since the beginning of the game, and it still took me coming to the boards and PMing one of the former Community Managers to finally ban someone who had been botting for years despite my in-game /gm reports before I left the game for a year and after I had come back.

In short, you're still doing the exact same **** thing as previous producers, pushing the same company line of "we've been banning ****" despite being present at any territory war/siege weekend since merge would tell anyone that you simply haven't to any meaningful degree.

At least admitting that would have been a step in the right direction, but you can't even do that.

As for your more current efforts towards the "marked improvements," here's a hint: One-size-fits-all server-side detection methods don't work on those who employ customized scripts.

Of course, you have to care about them getting away with it in the first place.

Also, thanks for not having GMs working at all during the weekends.

[z0phiel]

Really?

Do you really think that it's appropriate or reasonable for your customers to pay you to do a job and have to hope that you'll actually do that job? Shouldn't that kind of be expected, rather than hoped for?

Get this straight: We pay you to do a job, and even though your job encompasses more than just EULA enforcement (which itself falls into the quality/service assurance sector), you're still ******* getting paid to do it. Not hope to do it, but ******* do it.



One pvp program user a year is "regular." Once a decade is "regular."

You can't seriously tell me that any kind of enforcement you've put forth on this front has been anywhere near meaningful beyond providing grounds on which you can say the words "we ban ****" in official communications.

Otherwise, siege weekends wouldn't have been littered with the same names using the same programs since the last merge.

You were "regularly" banning botters since the beginning of the game, and it still took me coming to the boards and PMing one of the former Community Managers to finally ban someone who had been botting for years despite my in-game /gm reports before I left the game for a year and after I had come back.

In short, you're still doing the exact same **** thing as previous producers, pushing the same company line of "we've been banning ****" despite being present at any territory war/siege weekend since merge would tell anyone that you simply haven't to any meaningful degree.

At least admitting that would have been a step in the right direction, but you can't even do that.

As for your more current efforts towards the "marked improvements," here's a hint: One-size-fits-all server-side detection methods don't work on those who employ customized scripts.

Of course, you have to care about them getting away with it in the first place.

Also, thanks for not having GMs working at all during the weekends.


This game and all others will NEVER be 100% bot/cheat free, get used to it or stop playing games completely, I quit back in C1, this thread is just the same **** that people were saying back then, it's not going to change, no matter what they do to stop bots and chats they will find a new way around it, it's their nature to break the system and no system is 100% safe and secure unless it's not connected to the internet at all.

[OrcZilla]

I understand the frustration you have with the responses you've seen over the years. I want to again clarify that the intent of my comments was not to say that no efforts have been made with previous leaders of Lineage II. I know that efforts were made and accounts were closed on a regular basis. The intent of my comments were to show that our goal is to give the players more noticeable results in this area of the game. We are actively working towards this goal.

I honestly don't believe you or your staff have the Midi-chlorians to understand the problem, let alone fix it.

Though, I guess I can't fault you for that - your intention was never to fix it, but to cull the masses enough once to give the appearance of something actually being done, which is something significantly better than what NCSoft has been doing about the problem since merge (read: nothing).

In regards to your petitions being closed inappropriately, can you share with me the petition number or ticket number? Or even PM the name of the character you used to send the petition with the server name. I'd like to look into some of these responses.

-Moxie

I'll PM you the ticket number I still have sometime today, but one of them was an in-game petition that was closed (and thus not sent to your automation machine to produce and forward an automated e-mail to me) and I can't send you a ticket number for that one.

Again, thanks for not having GMs working on the weekends, too.

[OrcZilla]

This game and all others will NEVER be 100% bot/cheat free, get used to it or stop playing games completely, I quit back in C1, this thread is just the same **** that people were saying back then, it's not going to change, no matter what they do to stop bots and chats they will find a new way around it, it's their nature to break the system and no system is 100% safe and secure unless it's not connected to the internet at all.

I never said that this game and all others could be 100% bot/cheat free, but there's a difference between not even really trying, which has brought this game quite a reputation for being a bot- and cheater-haven, and actual attempts at improving things.

Just the fact that you brought up how you quit in C1 and the threads on this subject back then are the same as the ones today is a laughable testament of the progress NCNA has made in improving the experience of their customers on this front - none whatsoever!

Thanks for reinforcing my message about how despite however much NCSoft claims to be doing something, anything about the cheater problem, they haven't done anything meaningful at all.

[Jorge]

This game and all others will NEVER be 100% bot/cheat free, get used to it or stop playing games completely, I quit back in C1, this thread is just the same **** that people were saying back then, it's not going to change, no matter what they do to stop bots and chats they will find a new way around it, it's their nature to break the system and no system is 100% safe and secure unless it's not connected to the internet at all.

You are right, this kind of games are not free of cheaters, but Havings sames cheaters all weakend killing all and even they say freely that they are cheater :) and u dont see any action buy any GM its kinda sad :(

[Wedge]

During years I try to compete with cheaters, but if in GoD all those programs are still in use Lineage 2 packets - I'll quit this game in 1 click.
Even at free shards those radars don't working, but working good on NA/EURO servers.
I know, korean players don't have such big problem with pvp cheaters, like we have. But maybe someone, who play on korean GoD server, can tell me, is <<cheat programm name here>> still working in GoD? Or as always, first week after launch don't working, then working perfect?

[NoOne]

ofc they will work,ofc they work in korea also but Destructor said that koreans dont rly use them bcuz they enjoy pve / pvp by hands.....dont believe what are u hearing about free server and no programs...some programs are working there also and on private the big problems are gm;s friends,exploits,bugs ,server droping 10 times per day and so on

what i dont understand is why NC dont block this programs...always they avoid to answer that question....

SO NCSOFT WHY DONT U JUST BLOCK THIS PROGRAMS?.....

[Nasicae]

Unless NA turn into Innova, and use that program they have there. However, that would be illegal in the US..

[Profeta]

ofc they will work,ofc they work in korea also but Destructor said that koreans dont rly use them bcuz they enjoy pve / pvp by hands.....dont believe what are u hearing about free server and no programs...some programs are working there also and on private the big problems are gm;s friends,exploits,bugs ,server droping 10 times per day and so on

what i dont understand is why NC dont block this programs...always they avoid to answer that question....

SO NCSOFT WHY DONT U JUST BLOCK THIS PROGRAMS?.....

well, this is an interesting thing. As I hear from another peoples who I know and those peoples plays different MMOs as me (we), says too, that there aren't blocked too, these cheater programs. Also are bots in WoW too as, I heard you can enter to WoW servers too with cheats without problem. But same things at the EVE online as I heard.

I guess, something here with the international rules. As I wrote down many times, that you CAN'T compare the rules or chances of NCwest with the NCKorea, NCJapan or Innova or another local service.

These international services have to find the way what with they can run their game everywhere without hit the rules of any country.

While the Innova example only a Russian service company, so under the Russian rules they can do everything, that protect their servers.
Example they use the Frost defender program work excellent, but yes it is watch through your whole computer.
But as I heard these programs not allowed in France, because it is hit the humanity rights of the users.

[NoOne]

@profeta exactly that i'm asking...why they dont block it?..bcuz of law,bcuz they dont want,bcuz bots are customers also,bcuz etc....just lf for an answer not some astral answer like :"we are doing our best to catch bots"....

anyway i believe we will never have anti bot system

[Profeta]

@profeta exactly that i'm asking...why they dont block it?..bcuz of law,bcuz they dont want,bcuz bots are customers also,bcuz etc....just lf for an answer not some astral answer like :"we are doing our best to catch bots"....

anyway i believe we will never have anti bot system

Yes, this would be an interesting question.

[Profeta]

My question would be the next:

I did read on Korean Lineage 2 site about the newest Lineage 2 update what is release after the Goddess of Destruction - Awakening.

Do you have any public information about it? Or do we need to wait for the G-Star 2011 to get informations about it?

What I saw on the Korean site, that the air pvp will appear in the game with huge flying ships.

[NoOne]

My question would be the next:

I did read on Korean Lineage 2 site about the newest Lineage 2 update what is release after the Goddess of Destruction - Awakening.

Do you have any public information about it? Or do we need to wait for the G-Star 2011 to get informations about it?

What I saw on the Korean site, that the air pvp will appear in the game with huge flying ships.

link pls...
i dont think we will ever see smt like that here....servers will gone from long time

[wasted]

We do have a current policy against PvP cheaters and yes, we will be putting forth the same effort towards PvP cheaters as we did the farmers.

-Moxie

Sry Mrs,but i cant believe you...you should try harder!

Everyone who log in game,can see that things havent change w/o your "policy".L2 is the land of the "i log with pvp prog and i do whatever i want w/o consiquences"

Almost 5 months pass since this answer http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3070628&postcount=40 (http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost.php?p=3070628&postcount=40)and situtation is the same.

i think that is time your next answer should be with numbers and actions.

we dont need more "politician" answer of style "we did,we do,we have,we will".....at least in Greece we had many of that for plently of years and you know hows the things become;)

[Yidao]

link pls...
i dont think we will ever see smt like that here....servers will gone from long time

This is the article Profeta was talking about:
http://lineage2.playforum.net/news/lin2hot/id/1043414
Please note the date (June 7) and the fact that those are not screenshots but "handmade" pictures for a Powerpoint presentation.

And since you mention servers, NCKorea will have a major merge on October 26, with 12 low-population servers being amalgamated into 2:
http://lineage2.playforum.net/news/lin2hot/id/1046214

[Profeta]

And since you mention servers, NCKorea will have a major merge on October 26, with 12 low-population servers being amalgamated into 2:
http://lineage2.playforum.net/news/lin2hot/id/1046214

this sounds so strange, how a game which is in the Korean top 10 games (most played) since 7-8 years get server merges?:eek::confused:

Are you sure, that you saw it well? Or Maybe there the server cap limit not 5-6-7k as at us and they want 10-15k online players on each servers?

I really can't imagine what is going here.

[Yidao]

Vein from Inven.co.kr thinks that this is in preparation for the inter-server wars which were announced as a future project at the time of the Freya update:
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=390&l=857

The main problem with the servers in Korea is that some of them have a very high population, whereas others (the 12 which get merged on October 26) are almost empty. You can get an impression of this imbalance by the number of overenchanted weapons per server:
http://power.plaync.co.kr/lineage2/%ED%86%B5%EA%B3%84%EC%8B%A4+-+S84+%EB%A7%88%EB%B2%95%EA%B2%80%2811.04.18%29
Apart from the Olympiad for which you need a certain minimum number of players who can be matched, little Tiat with 3 overenchanted Vesper Busters on April 18 would stand no chance in a war against Aria with 57 overenchanted Vesper Busters :D

Apart from that we must also face the fact that "Goddess of Destruction" did not bring in as many new players as the developers had hoped (that's also why they later added the Mentoring System (http://www.l2gc.com/blog/new-mentoring-system-in-gd/)). I guess that in the "Dark Aion" Han Jae-hyeok and his colleagues created there is simply too much doom and gloom for a country which is involved in a very real war.

[Profeta]

Vein from Inven.co.kr thinks that this is in preparation for the inter-server wars which were announced as a future project at the time of the Freya update:
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=390&l=857

The main problem with the servers in Korea is that some of them have a very high population, whereas others (the 12 which get merged on October 26) are almost empty. You can get an impression of this imbalance by the number of overenchanted weapons per server:
http://power.plaync.co.kr/lineage2/%ED%86%B5%EA%B3%84%EC%8B%A4+-+S84+%EB%A7%88%EB%B2%95%EA%B2%80%2811.04.18%29
Apart from the Olympiad for which you need a certain minimum number of players who can be matched, little Tiat with 3 overenchanted Vesper Busters on April 18 would stand no chance in a war against Aria with 57 overenchanted Vesper Busters :D

Apart from that we must also face the fact that "Goddess of Destruction" did not bring in as many new players as the developers had hoped (that's also why they later added the Mentoring System (http://www.l2gc.com/blog/new-mentoring-system-in-gd/)). I guess that in the "Dark Aion" Han Jae-hyeok and his colleagues created there is simply too much doom and gloom for a country which is involved in a very real war.

Ah, yes I got after your post some information too, well I guess it is a very special and new situation in the gameworld than, that a game get server merges to use out the new contents what I think will arrive in the next update in January. Really understand able also, that in these cross server wars if a server has heavy or full server population mostly while another has mostly light population won't be fair and enjoy able the gameplay. But if the NCsoft plan to do cross server wars, than they have to remove their server transfer service, because anyway with a time everyone try to move to the winner servers.

Well, yes I guess in Korea the Lineage 2 already has an own place, so it is in the top 5 MMO and in the top 10 game (in every category). I guess this is quite enough, also a good news, that the GD was all in one successful, I guess normally we could calculate with it, that the GD Awakening will keep and increase its place in the Korean market, but many contents still really fresh, so I guess they will able just increase the player number in Korean drastically with the next update, when they improve the liked contents, update the less liked contents and restore those things what was a liked thing in L2 before the GD, but in the GD it was changed.

All in one, I think the GD first of all in EU/NA can increase drastically the player number, if the NCwest does the necessary service changes (remove the pvp cheaters, changes in payment system and after these some creative promotion idea).
The faster leveling process, the questing, the pvp mostly popular in our area, so im sure in it, that much more new players will enjoy the Lineage 2 in GD as at now.

[Desert_Eagle]

There are some issues had place at Russian GoD PTS:
1) Too many people at one starting location, heavy lags, critical errors, server unstable.
2) Too many people willing to test ~5000 for 1 server.
3) Impossible to test an opportunity to use a quest item to choose a class to awaken.

Will NC use this experience in future PTS ?
Limit people able to login PTS server (like Innova did), or may be make AION like queues for log in?
Will they give to all players a quest item to choose a class to awaken?

[washtak]

There are some issues had place at Russian GoD PTS:
1) Too many people at one starting location, heavy lags, critical errors, server unstable.
2) Too many people willing to test ~5000 for 1 server.
3) Impossible to test an opportunity to use a quest item to choose a class to awaken.

Will NC use this experience in future PTS ?
Limit people able to login PTS server (like Innova did), or may be make AION like queues for log in?
Will they give to all players a quest item to choose a class to awaken?

Too many players? On US/EU servers? That won't happen, don't worry. ;)

[Profeta]

Too many players? On US/EU servers? That won't happen, don't worry. ;)

You musn't be sure in it.

but to answer to Desert Eagle's question too.
1. At Russia, was about 200 players around me in Talking Village, with full graphic I got a little lag, but I could play without problem, with low details I could play without any lag.
2. The Russian test server has only 1500 slots and maybe they has +500 for premium users, so totally 2000.
Well, yes if our PTS will have only 1500 slots too it will can be problem at us too. First of all than if maybe NCwest decide, that everyone can test the GD in F2P form.
3. Yes, I guess the Innova hurried too much with their PTS, while mostly at us we not really have any problems on PTS as I see their PTS is too problematic, I thought maybe the real reason why from CBT become OBT at Russia, that the developers will need much longer time to finish with the Live version as they planned before it.

[Luxiel]

3. Yes, I guess the Innova hurried too much with their PTS, while mostly at us we not really have any problems on PTS as I see their PTS is too problematic, I thought maybe the real reason why from CBT become OBT at Russia, that the developers will need much longer time to finish with the Live version as they planned before it.

I'm quoting this as a remainder to those that always cry for a hurry in GD development. That's exactly why we aren't on the PTS yet.

~Lux

[Aghen]

There are numerous teams, including customer support, ... , web development, ...
-Moxie

best joke !! You are telling us that there are some people paid to do NOTHING at NCSoft ?

[wasted]

best joke !! You are telling us that there are some people paid to do NOTHING at NCSoft ?
why not?dont tell me u dont dream such a nice work for yourself

[Draecke]

well they got to move on and launch PTS/Go Live at a certain point in the near future anyways..

can't keep hiding behind the fact Korea is still making many bug fixes every week as then we get in the "soon" world aka we'll never get it..

weekly updates by korea:
http://lineage2.plaync.co.kr/board/update/list

google version:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ko&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Flineage2.plaync.co.kr%2Fboard%2Fupd ate%2Flist

[Dreamer]

dont even bother to write Questions here to Moxie, since my official response (after i had to write to another person cos of no answer) that Moxie is bussy and will answer pm's + here in the "next couple weeks"

Great to w8 a couple of weeks for a response of a send pm.
And guess what... I sent my question to another Staff and ...... silence....

[DrachaVonDrachen]

Today is October 6, 2011... so stop posting in this August thread. You know they are busy so stop bugging them about questions you already know the answer is going to be.

[NoOne]

Today is October 6, 2011... so stop posting in this August thread. You know they are busy so stop bugging them about questions you already know the answer is going to be.

SOON and WE WILL DO OUR BEST?

[DrachaVonDrachen]

soon and we will do our best?

qft

[Moxie]

Hi Folks,

With the discussions, plans, and work that is happening right now, I am going to close this thread for the time being. To participate in discussions regarding "Play Your Way" or the future business model, please see this thread (http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=218352).

-Moxie