Reflect damage buffs stacking. 50% or more on olymapid? another NcJOKE.

[Yunalesca]

/care

[ProgressiveEconomics]

I didnt read all the replies to this so I may be restating it.
Sure everyone can get these retartedly out of ballance augment's, BUT....

Now I havent done Oly yet but, What does a nuker with reflect do against a healer with these reflect augments? Think about it....
You see, simple people, It's not that some people are too poor to get the augments, gimme a break that's their own fault.. It's that some classes with this setup become almost unbeatable and there is no counter for several classes.. This creates a huge gap in ballance which makes people want to quit and lowers the population. I played dead L2 long enough, lets get this fixed!


It seems pretty simple, if a new augmentation change to the game makes it so that one class is nearly unbeatable, it needs to be changed.

Also it's really too much, Reflect should only reflect a small ammount of damage. Maybe cap it like NcSoft did to mage crits at 20%. I droped a bubble at the seige yesterday and BLAMO, im dead because someone had reflect on and I crit.... gg... This happens often with AoE now.

Broken PvP FTL





*The people who spent billions are getting nervous*


Oh yea and making it against the rules to put reflect on mobs? are you kidding me? What were some bot groups getting messed with or something? When you buff mobs, you flag, correct? So whoever youre ******* off can kill you, correct? Why the F does this need to be against the rules? Someone should make lowbie toons from a random IP and buff mobs on all the servers just because of how stupid you are.... Can we stop making carebear rules that encourage people to go to that other game that just came out.

[ProgressiveEconomics]

You have to understand people like the ones defending this, who have the augments, like diego for example....

This guy hasn't played the game without every single advantage ever made by NcSoft and lots that he made himself.... This guy has played for years. Now he makes the game his occupation.. Do you know how often I have ever seen this guy alone, outside town, flagging for pvp? Never, you know why? It's never happened... These types don't want to play unless they have every advantage and even then they are too scared. It's fear that drives them and it is fear that is making them cry in this post. Fear of waisting billions on reflect and having it get Nerfed by NcSoft.

[Shunsui]

Originally Posted by ProgressiveEconomics

I didnt read all the replies to this so I may be restating it.
Sure everyone can get these retartedly out of ballance augment's, BUT....

Now I havent done Oly yet but, What does a nuker with reflect do against a healer with these reflect augments? Think about it....
You see, simple people, It's not that some people are too poor to get the augments, gimme a break that's their own fault.. It's that some classes with this setup become almost unbeatable and there is no counter for several classes.. This creates a huge gap in ballance which makes people want to quit and lowers the population. I played dead L2 long enough, lets get this fixed!


It seems pretty simple, if a new augmentation change to the game makes it so that one class is nearly unbeatable, it needs to be changed.

Also it's really too much, Reflect should only reflect a small ammount of damage. Maybe cap it like NcSoft did to mage crits at 20%. I droped a bubble at the seige yesterday and BLAMO, im dead because someone had reflect on and I crit.... gg... This happens often with AoE now.

Broken PvP FTL





*The people who spent billions are getting nervous*

These arguments make less and less sense as this thread continues. A nuker shouldn't be killing a healer anyway unless they get a string of crits, so reflect is irrelevant in the outcome of that fight; it merely ends the fight quicker for the healer. The same class balance as with prior updates is still present: healer > nuker in Oly. I love hearing all the archers and nukers crying about reflect, as if that would make the classes suck any less in Oly. "I smash mobs I should be able to kill players just as fast, but I kill myself on reflect cuz my damage is too amazing!" Guess what, reflect or not you will still lose to healer/summoner/tank because those three classes are innately dominate in the 1v1 environment of Oly.

Freya update: healers with 4+ nuke augs = virtually unbeatable; stacked soulhound with reuse aug and ++soul of pain = virtually unbeatable; stacked OL, even with no amazing augments = virtually unbeatable. Certain classes excel at 1v1, others do not. That is the bottom line. Was it unfair that hell knights had shield of revenge which prevented daggers from stabbing them, lest they kill themselves?

Here's a humbling fact to think about. Even if everyone was equally geared in Oly--same gear, same enchant, no augments--the people crying in this thread right now would still be getting crushed by the true Oly farmers because they are simply better than you at this game. What will be the argument then? It's unfair that they have a better grasp on the class than you do?

I spent billions years ago acquiring all of the active augments that exist to be prepared for any fight in Oly, and it just so happens I couldn't care less if reflect gets changed. In fact, it amuses me how so many people think changing it will make the slightest bit of difference in a 1v1 fight. Whatever helps you feel better I suppose.

Next it will be unfair to nukers that former stormscreamers can keep emp echo. Or it will be unfair to warriors that former duelists can keep duelist spirit. Or that former elemental masters keep seraphim. Or that former adventurers can keep dash. Or that some archers kept rapid shot. The list is neverending.

This guy hasn't played the game without every single advantage ever made by NcSoft and lots that he made himself.... This guy has played for years. Now he makes the game his occupation.. Do you know how often I have ever seen this guy alone, outside town, flagging for pvp? Never, you know why? It's never happened... These types don't want to play unless they have every advantage and even then they are too scared. It's fear that drives them and it is fear that is making them cry in this post. Fear of waisting billions on reflect and having it get Nerfed by NcSoft

Diego's is the most active pvp party in Nova. You rarely see any of them pvping solo because there is no solo xp at 96+, ergo no one to gank. And it's no fun ganking lowbies.

I'm not sure what your obsession with fear is, but you clearly have no concept of end game. I spent billions OEing all of my skills, NCSoft deleted all of those. Did I cry about it? No, I kept playing the game with the new changes.

[Retri]

Originally Posted by ProgressiveEconomics

You have to understand people like the ones defending this, who have the augments, like diego for example....

This guy hasn't played the game without every single advantage ever made by NcSoft and lots that he made himself.... This guy has played for years. Now he makes the game his occupation.. Do you know how often I have ever seen this guy alone, outside town, flagging for pvp? Never, you know why? It's never happened... These types don't want to play unless they have every advantage and even then they are too scared. It's fear that drives them and it is fear that is making them cry in this post. Fear of waisting billions on reflect and having it get Nerfed by NcSoft.

There are a lot of game mechanic issues that could use some rebalancing. I have active reflect, would love passive reflect too (tried for it but hasn't happened yet), but I would understand if they nerfed it too. However, you shouldn't really slam people for trying to take advantage of whatever the current game mechanics allow for.

Some examples of mechanics that need rebalancing:
95+ healers in heavy
Summoners with bows
Summoners in heavy
Delf mages with old skills
Delf healers with pow
Light Elf summoners with pony buff
Light Elf enchanters with songs

They will probably fix some of those eventually and then new ones will pop up. That's just the reality of competitive play.

[Shunsui]

Originally Posted by Retri

+1 post

Exactly. That's what future patches are for.

[Yunalesca]

Originally Posted by Retri

Some examples of mechanics that need rebalancing:

Summoners with bows

I don't find this unbalanced on a pvp perspective. summoners 90+ rely on magic to do anything. Also there's signs that the mains devs want summoners using bows, because on raids like balok, summons are suposed to be tanks and suck in dmg + drain while tank stays far from their point of view. The bow feature is pretty much made on purpose. Also comes in as costumization.

They already have a huge penalty on casting speed and as a summoner i can tell you, using a bow on pvp against tough oponents is the worst thing you wanna do.

[Retri]

Originally Posted by Yunalesca

I don't find this unbalanced on a pvp perspective. summoners 90+ rely on magic to do anything. Also there's signs that the mains devs want summoners using bows, because on raids like balok, summons are suposed to be tanks and suck in dmg + drain while tank stays far from their point of view. The bow feature is pretty much made on purpose. Also comes in as costumization.

They already have a huge penalty on casting speed and as a summoner i can tell you, using a bow on pvp against tough oponents is the worst thing you wanna do.

I'm talking game mechanics in general, and it's possible it's by design, but it's more likely that it's something they overlooked. I have summoners in my constant so I'm more than happy to have it keep going, but I smell eventual nerf coming to that.

[Draecke]

Originally Posted by Retri

There are a lot of game mechanic issues that could use some rebalancing. I have active reflect, would love passive reflect too (tried for it but hasn't happened yet), but I would understand if they nerfed it too. However, you shouldn't really slam people for trying to take advantage of whatever the current game mechanics allow for.

Some examples of mechanics that need rebalancing:
95+ healers in heavy
Summoners with bows
Summoners in heavy
Delf mages with old skills
Delf healers with pow
Light Elf summoners with pony buff
Light Elf enchanters with songs

They will probably fix some of those eventually and then new ones will pop up. That's just the reality of competitive play.

all of the above gets fixed in Glory days update more or less and as I'm aware of it now I have time to get used to the though about it as erm yes Retri they will take away all Pre Awakening skills then among others as well re balancing on what armors & passives will do etc.

there will be even changes to the whole reflect damage issue so enjoy things for now & the Tauti update as after that it will all change again.

[Yunalesca]

Originally Posted by Retri

I'm talking game mechanics in general, and it's possible it's by design, but it's more likely that it's something they overlooked. I have summoners in my constant so I'm more than happy to have it keep going, but I smell eventual nerf coming to that.

The fact summoners can solo certain party spots can be kind of scary yea, but we also have o look at a high end game perspective. If they are nerfed it will be more of a reason to exclude summoners, since people will enchant skills, get better gear while summoners gear doesn't give a boost as big as it does to all other classes.

Since it's been god-harmony-tauti and now glory days i'm hoping it stays the way it is. The class has already it's annoying issues..summon bug when we can't summon anything, pets get easily stuck, skills cannot be pressed twice while far away or it screws up the summon positioning and on top of that, the skills have delays specially when summon is not in range. I hope that to compensate for those annoying lil things we don't get nerfed ><

[Ishmila]

LOL people think its EASY to get reflect, sorry friends its not vey easy to do this, but i mean if u think getting passive reflect, then active, then a +30 buff then rune and valkakas, ya sure u will have a lot, bet u can name a whole like what , 5 peopel IF THAT who have it ? lol i dont even have it, but hey i dont cry. Will they fix it, ya probably, what u gonna do till then ? post about it till they take it away? nice job, yet another subject we waste GMs time with instead of important issues, like , why pets get stuck on walls ! fix the general game play before u start to fix the other things

[Yunalesca]

Originally Posted by Ishmila

LOL people think its EASY to get reflect, sorry friends its not vey easy to do this, but i mean if u think getting passive reflect, then active, then a +30 buff then rune and valkakas, ya sure u will have a lot, bet u can name a whole like what , 5 peopel IF THAT who have it ? lol i dont even have it, but hey i dont cry. Will they fix it, ya probably, what u gonna do till then ? post about it till they take it away? nice job, yet another subject we waste GMs time with instead of important issues, like , why pets get stuck on walls ! fix the general game play before u start to fix the other things

FYI reflect will be fixed, yes FIXED cause it's not working as intended.

[Draecke]

Originally Posted by Yunalesca

FYI reflect will be fixed, yes FIXED cause in GoD it's not working as intended.

fixed

[Shunsui]

So what's the fix? All this suspense is killing me and the people who won't win even without their opponent having it.

[Yidao]

Originally Posted by Shunsui

So what's the fix? All this suspense is killing me and the people who won't win even without their opponent having it.

http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic....tart=40#p11043

[Zazie]

Sweet a fix in Glory Days. So what, a year+ from now? Unless they make it chance like VR is. People will still complain about it regardless if its 20% 50% 100% cap'd etc.

[ViciousElf]

This reflect is as "stupid" as "immune".

[Likh]

Originally Posted by Retri

Some examples of mechanics that need rebalancing:
(...)
Summoners with bows
Summoners in heavy

Yeah, I also think we should get cool new skills for those!

[Balegrim]

Correct me if I'm wrong. And this just MIGHT be simple logic talking here. . . But aren't there classes that can actively debuff other classes? I don't know much about passive reflect (I assumed it was an applied spell), but it sounds to me like reflect is only a royal pain when stacked with the casted buffs. So why not just roll with a debuffer and reduce that 50% to like 10 or 20 (whatever is attainable through 'passives')?

This may not be a problem with the game's mechanics, but rather a problem with the players refusing who would like one class to rule them all. The game seems to offer a HUGE variety of skills and skills to counter those skills. I can't help but feel that all avenues against this 'broken' buff have not been exploited.

[SweetDreamZ]

Originally Posted by Diego_Vargas

QFT, this clearly illustrates why reflect is fine, as equipment disparity between players is INTENTIONAL.

This game is not about equal footing, if you want that go play an fps. In L2 you have the ability to amass gear and levels to make yourself stronger than your peers.

Too many tears in this thread, people have forgotten what this game was about and what has made it survive for the past 8+ years.

i felt like highlighting the last thing

that being said from a good person i know, who used to be the legendary "First" Gladiator to >> the i am afk xping duelist and then >> diego are you finally at your pc no response player. Game went to .... once most ppl turned onto the dark side of a***ish.

At the End this game is nothing and gets you tired and bored unless your with the people you do enjoy the game with, without these people not even some boss jewels keep you motivated !

_________

about the reflect dmg, its fine stop qqing like some teenagers
adapt to the Situation and overcome it