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Old 09-12-2017, 01:11 PM   #401
vaper
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conguero View Post
Hello all,

Since Neutron made several replies to this thread prior to the weekend with some additional input on how and why this fix was implemented, I'm following up this week to let you know that we're continuing to read and gather your feedback* to present to the L2 Dev Team.

To be clear, we absolutely agree that this situation should've been handled and communicated better, and apologize that it wasn't.

We feel strongly that any unintended game mechanic that gets abused to generate a very large percentage of Adena income, and can lead to massive economic inflation, needs to be fixed as soon as it's identified. However, in this case we do recognize that there's correlation between the extent to which this bug was exploited, and the current significant challenges with earning Adena through in-game means.

In an ideal scenario, we'd implement more sweeping changes to the game to ease the burden of accruing Adena at the same time as any exploit fixes which cut off a common revenue stream. Changes of this scope take more time to implement and test though, and a blatant exploit that so heavily impacts the economy can't be left unaddressed in that time frame.

That said, we do appreciate the feedback. We'll continue to closely monitor the situation in-game and your input on the forums. We'll provide any updates we can as soon as they're available.

*Regardless of how vehemently you might disagree with the change, those of you who are presenting your feedback thoughtfully and without insulting remarks, inappropriate language, or conspiracy theories are helping to ensure that important criticisms are being documented. In order to present specific opinions internally, we need to hear from players who can voice their concerns in specific terms without resulting to making the types of comments that violate the Forum Guidelines and need to be moderated. We want to thank you for taking the time to express yourself in a considerate manner.
Apologising is a good step and we appreciate it. Although you have to consider why this changed happened only to Ncwest? if i remember well korea japan etc use the initial exchange rate.
From my experience in bussiness i can tell you this is a trap..
The natural course to apply this fix is first apply it to the server with the latest chronicle...so my friend be careful....
another fact is that if the echange rate stays 12 for 3 , people who Rmt will take gold/ 1 billion.
believe it or not they are happy also if adena on game are less and less..so without knowing from your part this worked like anti-Rmt measure.
Of course ncoin drop sale is to be expected from your part when you release next fishing event.
Considering all these facts and thinking ONLY the good for Ncwest....not all servers or the game itself , i believe you will spend 10-15 minutes to realise what is good for you or not.
i wish you the Best !!!

Last edited by vaper; 09-12-2017 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:39 PM   #402
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

I would like to say something
The difficulty with which we can earn adena income does not control abuses by those who use prohibited programs.
Keep in mind that the little amount of adena generated by the server will increase the illegal purchase and sale of this, that is the law of life (supply and demand)
If the adena abounds on the server, people using prohibited programs to obtain it will not be able to sell it, because there will not be anyone who needs to buy it, this has to reach a balance so that it can happen, I think its policies are wrong, unless that you sell adena.
It's time to stop the attack on real players and attack the root of the problem (illegal programs)
I hope they solve this situation as soon as possible, which clearly represents a scam to the people who help maintain this game, it seems a lie, but it is you who automated the fishing system and gave value to elcyum power, we are not to blame for that you take those measures that affect us and less after having taken our money.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:28 PM   #403
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Hi all,

Just to contribute a bit on the subject and try to make some sense out of this whole issue, I will also share my thoughts, as many fellow players did, whether I agreed or disagreed with, it doesn't really matter (RiP Chester).

I also do appreciate the fact that it may not be your own decision to alter the way fishing worked and it may have come from above, so anything we say is a shadow in the dark.

It is extremely disrespectful to the people that pay or don't pay for coins, as well as the casual players that are, in the end of the day, your customers that the upcoming change was not communicated at all.
Little would it change, while the outburst and tantrums would be the same, but at least you could look the community in the eye and say, we told you so.

Little would change, again, if this was communicated - not much to do then huh? Sell the pole? to who? Everyone would want to sell as well.

Long story short, I would like to say that, yes, I am also disappointed that after spending adena (or coins) in buying one, two or three poles, this moderate and not excessive, as described by the game-masters, way to earn adena (in my case 40 to 60 mil per day) will be missed.

What also will be missed is the X (x= 12,9,7 or 3 billion adena) spent per pole.

What won't be missed is people bragging about 14+ fishing accounts and the money they were making.
However, that adena WILL be missed friends, as there is no substantial way to inject/generate adena in the game at the moment.

Correct me if I am wrong, but @Neutron and @Conguero, as you shared information about that 200b generated per day through fishing (is that per server or server wide?) could you kindly share how much adena is generated via the the "normal" so called, methods of adena earning? Meaning monster drops, quest rewards etc and then just compare it with last year's figures. That would be interesting to know,

Why am I saying all these, I also wonder, as most of the times we just complain until we can't be bother no more and stop, but I do have a suggestion.

I suggest that, instead of having people begging to sell a rod to each other, which is useless now, let us sell it to NPC (you gave them to us through game mechanics, let us return it back) at an adena rate that would compensate a bit our efforts.

An exchange rate at auction house min sell rate, would be okay, I guess.

That's 3b per rod via the npc. This way complaints will reduce and the market will receive the final adena injection until you decide how to improve "casual" earning.

Alternatively, you could improvise a rate of how many coins would a person need in order to get one pole from fishing, and set the price to 1/3 of that back to the players that have a rod. (again in adena via selling the rods to the NPC)

Note, that this rate shouldn't be less than the 3b or X billion that the rods sell in markets.

My last thought to this long post, and I do apologise for that, as you can see from my count, I mostly read and refrain from posting, is that we still have little understanding why in other continents, fishing still is unaffected.
It kinda takes away the reason you provided about being a bug.

I mean, seriously, a bug that runs for a year?
No one noticed from visiting the servers that there are X amount of people afk fishing 24/7 (minus downtime)?
If that's the case I am lead to believe that little do you care for the community, and you might as well revert that back to normal.
If prices are inflated by the abundance of adena, so be it. People will farm more, fish more in order to compete, at the point that item prices become ridiculous and people will not buy at these rates.

I am sorry for the long read, hope some can relate to my way of thinking.

Have a great day (or night)

Cheers,
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:45 PM   #404
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

"That's 3b per rod via the npc." => NPC CHARGED 17,000 Heine coins - approx. 20,400 NC COINS - subjective value on baits and residual rod....after mkt avg (over time) must have been 6b per rod approx...


Ya NO....and btw, you are fired as the players' advocate!


Refund NC Coins recently purchased a +0 Warehouse Cloak - both USELESS.....


PS&S. You need to ask how much ppl make from adena drops calculated by NC - Yer kidding right - Adena drop less cost of shots = BIG FAT ADENA DRAIN FROM GAME.


Give up...stop buying...play as per suggestions above....don't continue to be so foolish as to think they don't know what they are doing to their customers....."Oh really, we did that...*lmFao snicker snicker skipping all the way to the bank*" Ppl said previously they aren't stupid....NO KIDDING...what they are is unethical....but hey, didn't they say to contact your local government - that's how much of a cure they want to give you!

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Old 09-12-2017, 03:54 PM   #405
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

As I understand it, you are saying that this way of making adena was pumping 200 billion adena into the economy a day (is that gross or net; the items necessary to catch the fish are expensive, too?). Let me suggest that this is not a terrible thing, when you consider how much adena you have taken out of the system by nerfing the adena and item drops. Furthermore, it is one of the few ways that people who came intending to play a "Truly free" game can actually make enough adena to play the game at a somewhat high level.

My question is, what is your vision of the future of Lineage II's customer base. Those of us who do spend substantial money on the game should be told what we are buying into. Are you making any efforts whatsoever to expand your customer base? Are you simply trying to milk the existing customer base for as long as you can? Or are you even doing that? You have just made a change here that will discourage new customers, chase away some of your current customer base, and frustrate pretty much everybody.

Yes, you apologized for mishandling the situation. But my questions go not to HOW it was done, but WHAT was done. What is your vision for expanding or maintaining your customer base and how does this change advance that vision. I respectfully suggest that it does not. Please consider a step that would advance that vision -- specifically, reversing this change. Thank you.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:00 PM   #406
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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Originally Posted by Chucksteak View Post
My clannie's are quitting, selling their gears, not all of them, but several of them. Not the tier 1 players, and not the tier 3 to use someone else's grading scale. Just the ones that only spend $100-$400 per event. A few people have suggested that no one will quit over this. They are absolutely wrong, I wish they wouldn't post assumptions about people, suggesting they have no breaking point or respect for themselves.
anyone playing on chronos that's been paying attention to the market knows many many players are quitting right now as it's obvious based on the amount of certain items for sale and the speed their prices are dropping..

called it out already that the current online numbers are very miss leading as it will take time for people to fully offload their gear before pulling the plug - can't really blame any of them after all this abuse lately with nearly zero chances to improve themselves through ingame means

2 Months from now the game will look drastically different due to the next update changes but I sincerely doubt it will be enough to halt this runaway train to hell that we seems to be sitting on here
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:19 PM   #407
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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anyone playing on chronos that's been paying attention to the market knows many many players are quitting right now as it's obvious based on the amount of certain items for sale and the speed their prices are dropping..

called it out already that the current online numbers are very miss leading as it will take time for people to fully offload their gear before pulling the plug - can't really blame any of them after all this abuse lately with nearly zero chances to improve themselves through ingame means

2 Months from now the game will look drastically different due to the next update changes but I sincerely doubt it will be enough to halt this runaway train to hell that we seems to be sitting on here




The log-in landscape will be pretty much the same tbh - no real buyers to take ppl out (event items nobody buys to any great extent anymore and those who might raise adena buy selling event items by the same token, stopped). The real game activity will be as you suggested - circling the drain.


People at every level should be ****** off:


1) Whales should be ****** for less and less value/success rates at every new event. The decision to spend is theirs/yours and that is obviously your prerogative; however, you aren't really getting anything anymore for what you are being asked to spend for non-existent results - the whales are the games most abused.


2) 2nd tier are ticked as well - no way to narrow any gap....even with an extended time horizon. They stopped buying.


3) Whales again are ****** given no mktplace to sell items.


4) 2nd tier ****** because no mktplace exists to sell their +6 and 8 gear given lack of any new customers in game.


`Round and round the circle, like a teddy bear...1 step.......`


And here we don`t even get the tickle!


Meet in Dion for lvl 20 wars - it`s not like the .001 xp from 105 to 106 has you glued to the screen anymore - lmfao
Imagine 1000+ ppl in dion with D grade +0 gear.....now that would be fun -leaving all this other BS behind

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Old 09-12-2017, 04:41 PM   #408
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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Originally Posted by Gustin2004 View Post
"That's 3b per rod via the npc." => NPC CHARGED 16,000 NC COINS


Ya NO....and btw, you are fired as the players' advocate!


PS. 16k coins = $200 USD.....atm, you don't even want the 16k NC Coins given 16k nc coins recently purchased a +0 Warehouse Cloak - both USELESS.....


PS&S. You need to ask how much ppl make from adena drops calculated by NC - Yer kidding right - Adena drop less cost of shots = BIG FAT ADENA DRAIN FROM GAME.


Give up...stop buying...play as per suggestions above....don't continue to be so foolish as to think they don't know what they are doing to their customers....."Oh really, we did that...*lmFao snicker snicker skipping all the way to the bank*" Ppl said previously they aren't stupid....NO KIDDING...what they are is unethical....but hey, didn't they say to contact your local government - that's how much of a cure they want to give you!

Hi mate,

Just to be fair, it wasn't the NPC that charged that much, it was you that accepted that cost payable to buy the baits and then get a rod.
Wouldn't you prefer that instead of struggling to compete with other players to either sell for 2.9 or 2.89 B per pole that you get something from just ditching this messed up, useless item to vendors now?

And yea, I would like to know how much is generated from the game, as we already know how much was from fishing.
(makes me wish auto pickup would be an option once again...)
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:19 PM   #409
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Default Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

unfortunately to ncsoft, does not care if you are legal or not, they simply look for how to get more money from players who pay all the time, which is a very big disrespect, because the money that is really invested in the game VALE MUCHO, and it is money that really does not look in the game.
the people who program lineage 2, are not helping at all, as to the improvement of this great game. There is a good update of NPCs and much less of instances that can scarcely be done. NPC outdated old cronica up C4 I have seen.
Currently we are in the great crusade chronicle and 70% of the people, is already in range 103-105 and it is sad that you can no longer make instances like octavis, tauti, ekimus, balok, istina because they no longer give items that also It worries a lot, since there are people who have monopolized raids 88-101 all the time.

Unfortunately the last events of ncsoft have been super bad, the possibility of having good things, the chance is super low, causing players who have many years to leave the game. for example with the event of the layers to have a +15 +20 to pay up to 1000 dollars to achieve it.

With regard to the subject of fishing I find that ncsoft if I perform a good management, since there are many players who sell adenas illegally.
a solution that I would give to the subject of the elcyum is the following:

the instances like octavis, istina, ekimus, baylor, balok, k85-k90-k95, kamaloka, altar, tauti and other instacias that can be done, had a chance of 100% of that elcyum so it is 2-4 per instance compensating the subject of fishing.
that could be a salvation, and by the way would subject the people who sell illegal adena to make the instances if or if to continue with their business.

the management they did seemed excellent, but they should compensate for those elcyum with instances, because otherwise it would generate a total imbalance of the game, causing people to lose it wanting to play lineage 2 or in that case people completely withdraw from ncsoft and they will go to play to the European server that today, has a good acceptance of players of l2 xD


Thank you and hope that the event of the horses will improve the rewards, as it generates a lot of trash in the inventory and are things that unfortunately can not be sold.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:30 PM   #410
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

The fishing change isn't that much of a big deal really. Some ppl make it look like they can't play this game without the fishing income, such is totally false and it's only their despair from the investment they've made in multiple fancy rods, that burns their backs.
I for one wasn't fishing, aside from the monkey event and never more, I don't but NCoins to sell them ingame either, but somehow I'm managing to stay afloat. Clearly you guys are doing something wrong here, think about it....

By the easy, I'm burning shots 24/7 on macro, so that's another expense I have, appox 150k SSR per 24hrs.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:26 PM   #411
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

In support of previous suggestions:

Repair some of the damage you have done:

+1 to An NPC which will purchase the Fancy Rod for an average market value server wide. 3b is much too low imo as I purchased some for 6.5 +. 5+ is better. I like others, did not know this was a "bug" as you say, and was a strategy to make adena for pure consumption...not to rmt. I spent a lot of money in ncoin to get some of those rods.

Make the game fun again and not impossible:

Games can change lives for the better or worse. We realize NCSoft is a corporation that needs to be profitable, but you should really do some balancing between profit and fairness to your community. And that starts outside of the game by tweeking your corporate culture. The damage your bean counters are causing is becoming more apparent. Make the game fun, fair, and challenging again. Make the NCstore items more fair and balanced with improved rates and lower costs. I hope your CEO/CFO is listening to this community and can think long term investment of a robust and loyal following of their brand across multiple titles.

Regain Trust:

I get how easy it is to get defensive when the mob is throwing everything under the kitchen sink at you. Own it. Listen and communicate thoughtfully. Empathize with your patrons/donators/fellow gamers. Make it right. No, do better than that, make it fantastic. Take this as an opportunity to turn it all around and start in a new direction with your development team.


In conclusion, this whale is currently out of blubber. Please feed me fun, fairness, balance, and a change of corporate culture and I will supply you with a much smaller but perhaps more continuous supply from now on.

P.S. I purchased Farming Simulator 2017 this weekend for $34 and had a blast until 5am one night.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:51 PM   #412
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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Originally Posted by Gustin2004 View Post
Oh my...and you wonder why NC doesn`t feel the need to change their current NO VALUE path. `Let`s log for an hour to show our resolve`....


Wake up....either quit or STOP BUYING....do not buy 1 item from L2 store...DO NOT buy 1 event item.....put yourself at inner peace and give up the urge to ultimately get nothing from your $ for the next 6 months - everything stays equal.....you weren`t going to take over the server and be KING anyway......play the `FREE2PLAY` way (L2 advertises the game as such - so let`s buy in that way for now).....start wars away from tier 1 clans - play the game, challenge yourself and your clan.....the game becomes enjoyable with no investment if relatively equal playing fields are utilized.....


If no-one buys - products change ...it`s not brain surgery.....


Here is what you are missing - don't do sieges...don't do DIMs.....it doesn't matter....ppl don't buy = tax money 0....nobody for whales to kill except themselves....for everyone but the whales, the game virtually stays the same which is the point that you are missing....so Nova & MS have 100% of castles....kings of nobody playing the game alone....the only things that will change are bottom line $s to NC and (if done correctly) the majority of ppl's fun & enjoyment increases with equal wars etc....


Until value gets added to the game - NC gets to provide a free2play game as they advertise and the whales are beached.....
Erm, that is precisely the idea of my reply? Lol
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:22 PM   #413
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Right now I'd say around 10% of the people I play with every day in game have quit and sold off all their gear. A few have written to support to have them permanently close their accounts. People are really disheartened over this change, and are looking to move on. More will follow in the weeks to come. I wish them all well.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:30 AM   #414
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

All crying for novices and many for red agin libra I beg for no more red libra this year it's not a new problem solving
There is one simple event that can solve all your problems

Shadow Weapion event all new players will be able to develop if they are lucky, (I burned a few dozen before I hit +10) but with +6 you can already to allinstances 99.
Changing the difficulty of Gludio to the same level as kama 99 so after the event ppl will be able to put a shadow on the gears ---> all solvet problems

such a shadow weapion player will be able to think of collecting on r99 weapion99 or to meak +++ knowing that he will always have a weapon to exp

All problems new players solved TY cheap fast and easy
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:41 AM   #415
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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Originally Posted by Fuman View Post
... at the point that item prices become ridiculous and people will not buy at these rates....
that point was reached long ago
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:35 AM   #416
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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It seems like a no win situation tbh. Any means of acquiring legitimate adena in game can be used by mass farmers to flood the market. I definitely don't envy the nc staff in trying to deal with this issue. Having said that, I don't think it was just fishing that brought unintended amounts of adena to the market. Any time you acquire an item with little to no adena expenditure that then sells to an npc for more adena you cause inflation on the server. A perfect example would be the carrot event last year (i think it was that event). Tons of people spending loads of ncoin and getting stacks of BEWR that no one wants to buy so they are sold to the npc's for 75kk. Multiply that times 50-100 scrolls per person x 1000+ players and there's a ton of adena that no one intended to be on the market. I'm not suggesting events like these shouldn't exist, or that the npc price of BEWR should drop. I do, however, feel like a "simple" fix to this problem would be to change what the npc's sell. Add an item, or items, that people will want to buy that only sells for adena from regular npc's. It could be something as minor as 10% drop/xp runes like the ertheia can craft or even something more substantial like giant's life stones or la vie en rose boxes. I realize that a lot of the potential item choices are currently available with ncoin and may hurt that market, but there are options.
The better option (due to things like abundance/richness talisman crafting) is to make all items with reference price > 0 be "Unusable Public Store" (a.k.a. cannot sell to NPC). This means shots, escape/resurrection/enchant scrolls, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuman View Post
Hi mate,

Just to be fair, it wasn't the NPC that charged that much, it was you that accepted that cost payable to buy the baits and then get a rod.
Wouldn't you prefer that instead of struggling to compete with other players to either sell for 2.9 or 2.89 B per pole that you get something from just ditching this messed up, useless item to vendors now?

And yea, I would like to know how much is generated from the game, as we already know how much was from fishing.
(makes me wish auto pickup would be an option once again...)
You auto-pickup everything (including adena) when you are a flying-transformed object.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:39 AM   #417
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

double post - ignore
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:13 AM   #418
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

I never really fished nor I personally care or gets affected by this Fishing changes but with this "changes" NCwest is acting like that of those corrupt government tons of problems within the server low drop rates,bugs and other stuffs and yet they focused on silly stuffs like this?
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:38 AM   #419
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Nerfing fishing is just bad temporally cure for symptoms of real problem.
Why one need adena in first place?
Probably because he cant obtain item or crafting resource from mob drops and crafting is hard with small success rate.
So one need adena to buy that item or resource from someone who was exceptionally lucky to obtain it.
I understand that game economy must be driven by scarcity and lack of items and resources.
But no adena and no items in drops is overkill in long scale.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:46 AM   #420
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Dear NCSoft,

It is apparent that the drop rates in the game have been continually decreased in an effort to encourage more L2 Store purchases with real life money. It is only a small percentage of your player base who can actually afford to put real life money into this game so they are the ones who continually benefit with better items, more +++ gear and ultimately more adena in their pockets.

The problem is with the drop rates being decreased and with NCSoft's apparent desire to line its own pockets with real life money. The game is far too out of balance now and cannot be completely repaired.

I raise up characters from lvl 1 to lvl 85 for CRP and Mentee Coin. Playing the game normally without sending any adena to a lvl 1 character to help them out, this is what i find:

1. all gear is provided through the daily missions and paulina's gear packs
2. health potions are provided at very low level
3. soushots / spiritshots are provided throughout the growth of the character with a reward of S grade shots on third class change.

essentially a new character has no need for anything as everything is provided. a result of that is that drop rates have been decreased so dramatically through the lower levels that when a character awakens it can have anywhere from 1,000,000 to 3,000,000 adena in its possession.

if these characters of mine were going to continue on past lvl 85 they would be starting their awakened life with essentially no money. true they get the 30-day paulina's gear for free, and they can obtain the event immortal gear with the diplomas but still they have no adena. they don't encounter any real opportunity to start building a bank for future gear purchases because drop rates have been decreased so dramatically, both items and adena. new players are scrambling to save up adena for future R95, R99 items and it becomes impossible so they give up and quit.

at the same time they look around at the people in the +10 armours, +++ weapons, talismans, jewels, jewelry, cloaks and all the other high advantages of the game and they wonder, how do i get that kind of gear too? unfortunately the answer is, spend your hard-earned real life money.

so yes, people found the powerful fish / elcyum powder exchange and used it as much as possible, now it is taken away. it was the best opportunity people had to raise up adena, and even still it wasn't great amounts but it was *some*.

so, NCSoft, are you going to increase drop rates again across the realm? are you going to give people something they can get their hands on to help them improve their characters as they grow? as i see it, the imbalances in the game are between the "haves" and the "have-nots," the ones who can spend copious amounts of cash on the game and those who can't. the imbalances in the game are from the L2 store commodities and what can be found in-game.

possible solutions? give us ways in-game to obtain some of the L2 store purchases, perhaps through tricky and involved quests or even as occasional drops from raids and instances. bring some balance back to the game by leveling the playing field between those with big bank accounts and those on disability with limited funds. start giving the possibility of advantage to your player base who loves L2 for what it is but can't afford your high-dollar, low success rate for enchant items.

so please, increase drop rates for the lower levels especially. please find a way to make premium items available in the game for people who don't mind a grind or don't mind working a quest for a good reward. please bring some balance back to the game by giving people who don't have big bank accounts an opportunity to work a little harder to earn and achieve better items in the game. you'll be surprised how many people would be willing to do it.

thank you.
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