Lineage II Forums  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:20 PM   #21
Filiae
Goblin Lord
 
Filiae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Filiae is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnda View Post
You can when the Ertheia roll out!
Ertheia are a lore abomination. They are following the exact same lore structure as the Kamaels, the same class structure, same skill structure, same subclass and noblesse structure as Kamaels. It's a huge insult to Kamael fans. It's like NC just came to your house, stole your stuff and then handed it to the next person in line.

NC could have achieved the exact same result by simply reimplementing the original Kamaels and making the old Kamael classes gain skills all the way up to level 99 and removing Kamaels from the current awakening system.

Except the Kamaels actually make sense as being the descendents of the original winged Arteias considering they have actual wings and can fly in their final form.

The new race has no wings and are all females with extremely stupid looking fox/cat ears.
Filiae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 03:49 PM   #22
Linnda
Zaken
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kalos
Posts: 3,238
Linnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filiae View Post
Ertheia are a lore abomination. They are following the exact same lore structure as the Kamaels, the same class structure, same skill structure, same subclass and noblesse structure as Kamaels. It's a huge insult to Kamael fans. It's like NC just came to your house, stole your stuff and then handed it to the next person in line.

NC could have achieved the exact same result by simply reimplementing the original Kamaels and making the old Kamael classes gain skills all the way up to level 99 and removing Kamaels from the current awakening system.

Except the Kamaels actually make sense as being the descendents of the original winged Arteias considering they have actual wings and can fly in their final form.

The new race has no wings and are all females with extremely stupid looking fox/cat ears.
As much as I love my main Linnda, I'm a sucker for adorable furry things.
__________________
http://stereoberry.sakura.tv/honeych...s/banner_l.jpg
Linnda: (Aeore Cardi/Iss Heiro 95/90/80/80)
Linnda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 11:23 PM   #23
Filiae
Goblin Lord
 
Filiae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Filiae is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnda View Post
As much as I love my main Linnda, I'm a sucker for adorable furry things.
Sigh.
Filiae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 02:42 AM   #24
FidgitTheClown
Valakas
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,915
FidgitTheClown has a spectacular aura about themFidgitTheClown has a spectacular aura about themFidgitTheClown has a spectacular aura about them
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

the kamael back story was a little weird.
but this new race not too different.

an island appears out of nowhere.
although in this case it fell from the sky and almost destroyed talking island.
again.

the ears are not quite Furry.
i viewed them as such, but upon closer look.
they are indeed feathered and not fur clad.

this is why everyone kept saying wing like ears.
i had to look quite close to notice.
i have no clue how random npcs bother to pay that much attention.
not like when you see a dwarf and you're like you are small, you must be a dwarf.

the classes are not really the same.
they just have similar notes as a warrior class and a caster class.
kamael were much deeper skill wise.

these classes are clearly built specifically to become an awakened class without having to replace all the old useless skills.
__________________
Orc! __________________________________________________ _________
Last edited by Sace; 02-01-2013 at 07:51 PM.
Reason: http://youtu.be/dG8wsae-6tU
FidgitTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 03:15 AM   #25
FidgitTheClown
Valakas
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,915
FidgitTheClown has a spectacular aura about themFidgitTheClown has a spectacular aura about themFidgitTheClown has a spectacular aura about them
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

http://youtu.be/VU66Owpenkc

i was trying to find the original kamael preview quest.
i don't remember it very well, but i figure after searching, it looked kind of like this... so it may be the one i saw.
i had hoped it would provide some more back story, but it doesn't have much aside from the mention of Eva.

can't find the old walk through for kamael quests either which had rich story telling.
__________________
Orc! __________________________________________________ _________
Last edited by Sace; 02-01-2013 at 07:51 PM.
Reason: http://youtu.be/dG8wsae-6tU
FidgitTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 05:57 AM   #26
BigBubbles
Zaken
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA, R.I.
Posts: 3,369
BigBubbles is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filiae View Post
Ertheia are a lore abomination. They are following the exact same lore structure as the Kamaels, the same class structure, same skill structure, same subclass and noblesse structure as Kamaels. It's a huge insult to Kamael fans. It's like NC just came to your house, stole your stuff and then handed it to the next person in line.

NC could have achieved the exact same result by simply reimplementing the original Kamaels and making the old Kamael classes gain skills all the way up to level 99 and removing Kamaels from the current awakening system.

Except the Kamaels actually make sense as being the descendents of the original winged Arteias considering they have actual wings and can fly in their final form.

The new race has no wings and are all females with extremely stupid looking fox/cat ears.
You're wrong, the Kamael's were reconned in, the Ertheia were in the original lore, they were called Arteia though, its a translation error.

The Kamael's lore, that Fidgit is forgetting is they are a genetically manipulated race of supersoldiers, created by the giants as foot solder's in their war with the GoD's. Also Fidgit, their island and primeval isle were there all along, just hidden behind walls of mist and sailors were to scared to sail there at first by the reconned lore. The Kameals made their presence known, and a shipwreck happened on happy dino isle to clue us into their presence.

The Ertheia are one of the original six races of lore, seven if you count the giant overlords, the Kamael's were just reconned in later as a creation of the giants. l2.eogamer.com/wiki/Kamael
__________________
{9x Feoh SS}{9x Sigel ST}{80 Ghost Hunter}{80 Doomcryer}Chronos : GoD Killed L2
The beauty of argument is that if you argue correctly, you are never wrong.

Last edited by BigBubbles; 08-01-2014 at 07:06 AM.
BigBubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 03:19 AM   #27
Linnda
Zaken
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kalos
Posts: 3,238
Linnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filiae View Post
Sigh.
Don't judge. Their Wind Blend is like some run you'd see in anime. So flow.
__________________
http://stereoberry.sakura.tv/honeych...s/banner_l.jpg
Linnda: (Aeore Cardi/Iss Heiro 95/90/80/80)
Linnda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 02:30 PM   #28
Raytso
Elpy
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 9
Raytso is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

about the Kamael, read : http://legacy.lineage2.com/backgroun.../chapter3.html
__________________
Pla plin plon plun ;-)
Raytso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 03:50 PM   #29
Linnda
Zaken
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kalos
Posts: 3,238
Linnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raytso View Post
We know the lore, but the quests for Kamael heavily implied that they were a modified Ertheia strain. However, NCsoft now supports the notion that they are two completely separate races. I'd like to think that the Ertheia were too weak to be used by themselves, to they kinda altered and created the Kamael via test tubes (there's Spicula larva in game so I don't see why this couldn't be a possibility).
__________________
http://stereoberry.sakura.tv/honeych...s/banner_l.jpg
Linnda: (Aeore Cardi/Iss Heiro 95/90/80/80)
Linnda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2014, 10:33 PM   #30
Filiae
Goblin Lord
 
Filiae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 39
Filiae is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBubbles View Post
You're wrong, the Kamael's were reconned in, the Ertheia were in the original lore, they were called Arteia though, its a translation error.

The Kamael's lore, that Fidgit is forgetting is they are a genetically manipulated race of supersoldiers, created by the giants as foot solder's in their war with the GoD's. Also Fidgit, their island and primeval isle were there all along, just hidden behind walls of mist and sailors were to scared to sail there at first by the reconned lore. The Kameals made their presence known, and a shipwreck happened on happy dino isle to clue us into their presence.

The Ertheia are one of the original six races of lore, seven if you count the giant overlords, the Kamael's were just reconned in later as a creation of the giants. l2.eogamer.com/wiki/Kamael
I am not wrong. The Arteia were in the lore from the beginning. And we knew right from the beginning that the Arteia were a flying race that disappeared around the same time that the Giants did, implying that their disappearance was connected to the disappearance of the Giants.

Enter the Kamael who we find out were experimental warriors created by the Giants to fight the gods who had been hidden on an island right before the fall of the Giants in order so that they could be further improved in order to enact revenge against the Gods. Their creation, mentality and culture are very militaristic owing to the fact that they were altered by the Giants to be the perfect weapons against the Gods. These new Kamaels that were born after the first generation of Kamaels who were flawed were perfected versions of the flawed first generation, however their power was sealed both because it was so large and in order to protect these Kamaels from the Gods until such time as they were able to achieve their final power. That is why Kamaels have one wing, this is the form they take when their power is sealed. When a Kamael unseals its power it takes on its true form which has two wings and is capable of flight.

While the Kamaels were clearly a retcon, they were the first new race retcon, and the implementation of their lore perfectly filled the gap in answering the questions of what happened to the Arteias and why did they disappear at the same time as the Giants who we now know were actually wiped off the face of Aden when they attempted to overthrow the Gods. If the Arteias were not connected to the Giants in the way that the Kamael were (as weapons of the Giants), then you have a huge plot hole in answering the question of why the Arteias disappeared at the same time as the Giants. These Giants we are told used the Kamaels as the ultimate weapon in their war against the Gods as the Kamaels were the only ones who could actually injure and kill the Gods. The Justicator 3rd class quest very strongly suggests that Kamaels used to be Arteias who were modified by the Giants in order to fight the Gods. Because the first generation of modified Arteias (they are called Spicula) now called Kamael were still too weak, they were hidden from the Gods on the Isle of Souls, there to be steadily improved upon through additional modification, better training/brainwashing, and in all likelihood some form of Eugenics (either through requiring direct pairing or by eliminating the bottom % of Kamaels). Interestingly enough, the first generation of Kamaels are still alive and have to remain in their sealed form lest they be constantly hunted by agents of the Gods (this was all revealed in the Soulbreaker 3rd class quest).

Several years later NC decided that they could create some more interest in the game by creating a brand new race. But they realized that the lore wouldn't support the addition of a brand new race coming out of the blue. Since NC knew that most people are not Kamael loremasters like they me, they wouldn't know that Kamaels were the descendents of the Arteias. And since NC knew everyone loved the mysterious Arteias race they decided to just make a second retcon by calling the new race Ertheia and saying these abominations were the Arteias even though they had already created lore for the Kamaels that specifically named them the descendants of the lost Arteia and this new race had no basis for being descendants of the Arteia, especially since they are completely different from how the Arteias are described and their design aesthetic is completely different from every other race and from how the Arteia are described as looking. Furthermore calling the Ertheia the descendants of the Arteias reintroduces the "why did the Arteias disappear at the same time as the Giants" plot hole. And this creates a second plot hole, that being if the Kamael are not the descendants of the Arteias, then where the heck did they come from? Of course we know that the lore tells us that Kamael used to be Arteias before the Giants mucked them up which is another reason why the Ertheia cannot be the descendants of the Arteia.

We know from the lore that the Arteia were a flying winged race, meaning they had two wings on their backs. We also know that the Arteia were extremely strong, the Kamael lore considers the Arteia to be the strongest natural race (which is why the Giants chose to use the Arteia to create their ultimate weapon against the Gods instead any other race, and we know these weapons are the Kamael). And we further know that the castoff parts of the Arteia were used to make humans, suggesting that humans resemble Arteias in some way. We also know that every race in Lineage 2 prior to this most recent update all share certain physical characteristics (ie they all look like they modeled on real humans more or less). The Ertheia however have no wings, don't have normal ears even though every other race does, are only female which by itself is ridiculousness incarnate, and they don't look like they were modeled on real humans. If we safely assume that all the Gods had the same idea in mind when designing their special race (which is why all the races share certain physical characteristics), then the true descendants of the Arteia would have to look like they belonged alongside the other races. The Kamael do look like they belong alongside the other races because the proportions of their body and general features are very similar to the other races. The Ertheia on the other hand are completely different. Their torsos are completely disproportionate to their hip size, and completely disproportionate compared to a normal human (especially in the shoulder to hip ratio), they don't have human-like ears, instead they have cat ears (the fact the cat ears have feathers on them doesn't make them any less cat ears since we know that's what NC designed them to look like). Now if we look at Blade and Soul, a completely different game, we find the true source for the Ertheia. The Ertheia use the body model for the Gin and the all female concept from the very popular Kun race and the furry ears from the very popular Lynn race. It's almost as if the people who designed the races for Blade and Soul decided to design the Ertheia, which I think is exactly what happened.

As to the Spicula now present on the Isle of Souls, that's another retcon. Originally the Isle of Souls was location where the Kamaels were hidden away while they were improved through training, further modification and controlled breeding. But the Kamaels were not created via test tubes as Linnda wants to believe, they were born the same way the rest of the races are. The female Kamael were originally thought only fit for breeding and not for fighting until they found out that the female Kamael had stronger magical strength than the males and they needed additional soldiers. But the very fact that the female Kamael were only used to produce more Kamael tells us that Kamaels are born naturally. And the entire Isle of Souls was devoted to training the Kamaels. Nornil's cave was the final test for Kamaels where they would learn about the history of their race if they succeeded and would be killed if they failed. While some creatures on the Isle of Souls were created via test tubes, those creatures were the monsters that were used to train the Kamaels. The golems now present on the island and the Spicula are completely out of place with the old Kamael lore, especially considering the original nature of the Isle of Souls and the fact that the golems would be extremely weak compared to the Kamaels because golems are limited by physical forces (Newtonian physics of force=mass*acceleration) whereas the magically inclined Kamaels are vastly stronger as their use of magic allows them to overcome the extremely limited physical limitations.

Last edited by Filiae; 08-20-2014 at 10:49 PM.
Filiae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 01:41 AM   #31
Linnda
Zaken
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kalos
Posts: 3,238
Linnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to beholdLinnda is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Kamael Doombringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filiae View Post
As to the Spicula now present on the Isle of Souls, that's another retcon. Originally the Isle of Souls was location where the Kamaels were hidden away while they were improved through training, further modification and controlled breeding. But the Kamaels were not created via test tubes as Linnda wants to believe, they were born the same way the rest of the races are. The female Kamael were originally thought only fit for breeding and not for fighting until they found out that the female Kamael had stronger magical strength than the males and they needed additional soldiers. But the very fact that the female Kamael were only used to produce more Kamael tells us that Kamaels are born naturally. And the entire Isle of Souls was devoted to training the Kamaels. Nornil's cave was the final test for Kamaels where they would learn about the history of their race if they succeeded and would be killed if they failed. While some creatures on the Isle of Souls were created via test tubes, those creatures were the monsters that were used to train the Kamaels. The golems now present on the island and the Spicula are completely out of place with the old Kamael lore, especially considering the original nature of the Isle of Souls and the fact that the golems would be extremely weak compared to the Kamaels because golems are limited by physical forces (Newtonian physics of force=mass*acceleration) whereas the magically inclined Kamaels are vastly stronger as their use of magic allows them to overcome the extremely limited physical limitations.
I thought the Metusela were the ones born naturally based off of Rodenpicula who was used as the basis for the female body, mainly reproduction. The rest were literally weapons with a single-minded purpose of the destruction of the gods and do not breed or reproduce.

So basically those "Spicula" we see now on the Isle of Souls are basically mutated Muertos (because the Muertos themselves were basically an artificial biological life form a part of the Nornil training system)?

I don't mind that the Ertheia are a lore abomination. They're fluffy.
__________________
http://stereoberry.sakura.tv/honeych...s/banner_l.jpg
Linnda: (Aeore Cardi/Iss Heiro 95/90/80/80)
Linnda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 AM.