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View Poll Results: Wynn pre or post maintainance
Wynn w/ max 4 servitors 21 42.86%
Wynn w/ max 2 22 44.90%
I am a cry baby and I just can't use my brain to contemplate any change 6 12.24%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-05-2012, 06:27 PM   #1
Circumrad
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Default Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

2 summon change was amazing imo.

Major PvP boost

Minor Pve nerf


I realy cant understand why so many Wynns QQ about the change,

PvE wise: Cougars got abit lower dps, just bit though... with survivability hitting the roof, making the class a virtually unkillable Solo GOD.

Also, Reapers had the same if not better dps due to the high m attack (62k full buffed, 90k in royalty, 180k in BR...)

PvP wise: Virtually unkillable in 1v1 w/ bear + reaper... Realy, imposible to die, bear having 50k hp used as transfer pain...

Mass PvP: dmg output was similar, survivability was the same, since wynn is usually the last target in any pvp situation.

Last edited by Circumrad; 09-05-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

because dude, people starts first to complain than after do tests on the changes
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circumrad View Post
2 summon change was amazing imo.

I realy cant understand why so many Wynns QQ about the change,

Becouse YOU DONT play one.. and not have idea

Tell me your class and tell me what would be the change:

Aeore Healer: No more Balance and progresive health
Tanks: No more Ultimate defense and Frenzy Knight
TyrR: No more full HP refulled and stunds skills
ISS: No more Sonatas, Rhapsody and stone transformation

You can keep playing .. but it sure will not be the same.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

We know from the developer notes that the summons reduction is key to their concept of summoner and how they fit into the new diversified classes. What we don't know is if the attack power from today's patch was what will be in the final version. Also try to look at the big picture on how all the diversified classes are changing. We don't have enough information yet to see how balanced (or unbalanced) the changes will be.

While we have to wait until 9/13 to see healer and enchanter changes, you can see the rest of the diversification translations here:

http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.ph...iversification
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by hivitro View Post
Becouse YOU DONT play one.. and not have idea
Maybe Cause I am playing one & I know exactly what I'm saying.

I'm actually playing 2 for pwrlvling purposes.

1- My main 96
2- Alt 89 strictly for pwrlvling

Tested both and I saw minimal dps reduction,
I also noticed that boxing healer is not required anymore due the extreme survivability brought by the previous change.

Unfortunately I couldnt not test K95 w/ 2 wynns + iss but I'm positive it is doable.

In PvP i only saw beauty having 1 97+ PvP enemy party trying to kill me for 2 min and not being able to.

Last edited by Circumrad; 09-05-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

This poll is pointless. The patch contained code that was probably currently being tested internally for the latest class diversification plans that are not even finally decided in korea. It obviously ended up being sent to NCWest in error.

There is currently no game version with only 2 summons for a Wynn, and the plans to reduce the number of summons go along with new summons being introduced that do not yet exist. So when Wynns will have 2 instead of 3/4 summons, those will not be cougars, bears and reapers, and it has been stated that the new summons will be stronger than the current ones:

Quote:
  • The 3 diversified classes will be able to learn specific servitors and skills for servitors based on class.
  • These new servitors will be stronger than current servitors but you will be restricted to only be able to summon 2 servitors at a time.
(This is from the link in untaggeds post further up. There are also detailed threads about the *planned* changes at boards.rochand.com)
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

I play a 98 summoner and can tell you with a good weapon my total patk dropped by 34k (2 pets gone plus 10% boost in pve dmg on cougars). This was HUGE. I went out tested it and the dps drop is insane at higher level areas (hellfire for instance) and survivability wasnt any better (both my pets got 1 shot by an executor). The time to resummon is way too long with 2 pets (if they reduced it by 50% would make sense). Also go test the reapers the matk dont seem to affect their skills much at all with a 400% herb and dmg went up by maybe 25% yet their matk was 331k vs 63k. Do some intense testing and you will see that especially end game it is definately a nerf.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Two Servitors, with that stats they are amazing in PvP, and their hp % drop slower than before with transfer pain.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by hivitro View Post
Becouse YOU DONT play one.. and not have idea

Tell me your class and tell me what would be the change:

Aeore Healer: No more Balance and progresive health
Tanks: No more Ultimate defense and Frenzy Knight
TyrR: No more full HP refulled and stunds skills
ISS: No more Sonatas, Rhapsody and stone transformation

You can keep playing .. but it sure will not be the same.
I can tell you, HE does play wynn and he is higher than me.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Next POINTLESS poll please!
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untagged View Post
We know from the developer notes that the summons reduction is key to their concept of summoner and how they fit into the new diversified classes. What we don't know is if the attack power from today's patch was what will be in the final version. Also try to look at the big picture on how all the diversified classes are changing. We don't have enough information yet to see how balanced (or unbalanced) the changes will be.

While we have to wait until 9/13 to see healer and enchanter changes, you can see the rest of the diversification translations here:

http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.ph...iversification
As always, linking website where most of the content is stolen from an other website, since you are not mentionning the original translator neither the source.

Therefore I advice anyone to read it from the original source, on Rochand's forum : http://boards.rochand.com/viewforum.php?f=11

Don't support copyrights infractions by reading the original work
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Original source is korean power wiki and not rochand. Original translator is google translate and common sense. Even the russian sites and other forums have this stuff translated. Oh yeah, ''Lineage II game content and materials are trademarks and copyrights of NCsoft Corporation and its Licensors and used with permission.''

Since the translations are correct and the information valid, go to http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.ph...eveloper_Notes. Book mark it to check for the latest information.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:00 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circumrad View Post
Also, Reapers had the same if not better dps due to the high m attack (62k full buffed, 90k in royalty, 180k in BR...).
Who cares what they have there in "BR"?

Just take the basic, unbuffed stats and compare.

The 2 "new" reapers have exactly the same firepower as the 3 "old" reapers (in total).
If we compare them to the 4 reapers (as for 95+ Wynn) we see damage nerf equal to 33.333%.

Note: here I am talking about MAtk only.

Last edited by Aconyte; 09-06-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

I was just pointing out how it's funny that Google Translate and common sense respect the same punctuation, the same spaces where there is not supposed to be space and the same formulation that two translators on an other board

It is not the first time that Terragamers's wiki is taking information without quoting sources. It started with GoD wiki several months ago. God you are even doing it with Juji's tests.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untagged View Post
Original source is korean power wiki and not rochand. Original translator is google translate and common sense.
The original source is not the korean power wiki but the PlayNC forum:
http://lineage2.plaync.co.kr/board/f...ticleId=517459

You stole the translation made by Laby, Sabotin and me (not by Google but by Koreanisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch!) from here:
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=888
And you know it.

In order to end this discussion it would be a good idea if Sace or Circumrad himself could copy the original translation from Rochand and paste it into the starting post (of course giving the Rochand link as source ). Then everybody has the same information as the Korean players, who are voting in a similar poll (you can see the present vote percentages under the Korean article I linked above), plus we have the advantage that some people actually could test the new servitor system. The Korean poll ends on September 11. Sace could for example lock this thread on that day and forward our results to the Development Department in Seoul.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Some people see Virgin Mary in water stains and Jesus's face on a pancake too. They see what they want to see. As for Juji's tests, hell yeah i'm going to add them. They are relevant game play information.

If you done taking shots at me, perhaps you allow the discussion to return to the Wynn summoner class developer changes.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:26 AM   #17
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Thumbs down Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

What's the point of this poll when people can't even calculate their damage output correctly? They just see some increase in stats and go: "omg this is awesome!!!"
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

hello, i'm a tyrr warrior of naia
pre patch - never lost from wynn except a dwarf (mby Duzer or smth) and the Hero Wynn
after patch - 60-70% chance to kill them at max

'nough said

it was a strong buff... luckily for me, botters and lvl 85 farmers made nc re-nerf them

Last edited by The Crimson; 09-06-2012 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untagged View Post
Some people see Virgin Mary in water stains and Jesus's face on a pancake too. They see what they want to see. As for Juji's tests, hell yeah i'm going to add them. They are relevant game play information.

If you done taking shots at me, perhaps you allow the discussion to return to the Wynn summoner class developer changes.
Well if you add something, like Juji's test done on Mentor Surprise chest here and you add it on your own wiki there : http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.ph...Surprise_Chest the slightest things to do is to add the correct source. So the reader will always be able to double check. It didn't stopped you to link it there anyway : http://boards.lineage2.com/showthrea...23#post3260623 taking full credits for the information.

About the upcoming change and your page, let's take a look at the talk about Tyrr Warriors change on Rochand forum :
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=878

Your page about it can be found here :
http://wiki.terragamers.net/index.ph...eveloper_Notes

Let's focus on passives skills. As you can see, it's increase P.Atk. But it's written with two spelling : either "P.Atk." or "P. Atk." with a space. So, more than the fact that each sentence is spelled exactly the same way, you wrote exactly P.Atk or P. Atk like we did on Rochand. Some lines it's written "P.Atk." where on other line it's written "P. Atk.". This coincidence would be funny if it would be the only one, but it appears at each occurence of the word.

Just take a quick look on pictures if you think meanwhile that the post changed
http://i.imgur.com/sOqDx.png
http://i.imgur.com/qSxTo.png

As you can see, Terragamers wiki is listed as an official fansite there : http://www.lineage2.com/en/community/fan-sites/
and you are clearly violating the Fan Site Agreement, especially the point E.
Quote:
NCsoft retains the right, at NCsoft’s sole discretion, to terminate and revoke this Agreement and all rights to the licensed Materials and the Game at any time, for any reason. You shall not put any inappropriate materials on the Fan Site. Some materials that NCsoft considers inappropriate for a Lineage II Fan Site include, but shall not be limited to:
[...]
E. Use of unauthorized copyrighted materials (without prior permission from the owner of such material).
you are there copying posts from their owner without asking for their permissions about it (I don't know about Juji, but I know that you never asked Elmar nor Sabotin nor myself about those translations). Therefore you are right now violating the Fan Site Agreement and bringing shame on NCSoft itself
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: Wynn After- Before maintainance Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconyte View Post
What's the point of this poll when people can't even calculate their damage output correctly? They just see some increase in stats and go: "omg this is awesome!!!"
Or likely, some ppl, did actual tests and came up w/ actual results that led them to actually bother making a poll post in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yidao View Post
In order to end this discussion it would be a good idea if Sace or Circumrad himself could copy the original translation from Rochand and paste it into the starting post (of course giving the Rochand link as source ). Then everybody has the same information as the Korean players, who are voting in a similar poll (you can see the present vote percentages under the Korean article I linked above), plus we have the advantage that some people actually could test the new servitor system. The Korean poll ends on September 11. Sace could for example lock this thread on that day and forward our results to the Development Department in Seoul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untagged View Post
Some people see Virgin Mary in water stains and Jesus's face on a pancake too. They see what they want to see. As for Juji's tests, hell yeah i'm going to add them. They are relevant game play information.

If you done taking shots at me, perhaps you allow the discussion to return to the Wynn summoner class developer changes.
TBH, The reason I decided to make a poll concering the brief changes wynn class expirienced during the initial 9/5 maintenance is completely due to my testings and my positive stance towards the changes.

However I often visit both sites and I strongly believe that the majority of l2 community including myself, appreciate your efforts equally whether the Initial info comes from "rochand" or "terragamers" respectively.

Who gets the credit? Does it realy matter? I do not see any Adds poping out of any site, so I guess you are both doing it for the love you hold on this game.

Now, As far as the poll is concerned and its formality/informality that is for Sace/juji to decide.

Last edited by Circumrad; 09-06-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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