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Old 01-23-2017, 08:01 PM   #1
Keoz
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Default Othell in PvE

What makes an Othell in PvE more than a CW spammer?

Excluding Bloody bonus, which is the most obvious, what else helps the most to improve damage output?

SAs? APs? Epics? Talismans? Dyes? La vie? Set bonus?
Should P.Atk be a concern?
DualD vs SingleD?

I'm not into spending much adena in my Dual, but I can use any advice to twith my setup for better dps
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoz View Post
What makes an Othell in PvE more than a CW spammer?

Excluding Bloody bonus, which is the most obvious, what else helps the most to improve damage output?

SAs? APs? Epics? Talismans? Dyes? La vie? Set bonus?
Should P.Atk be a concern?
DualD vs SingleD?

I'm not into spending much adena in my Dual, but I can use any advice to twith my setup for better dps
Simple really; max p.attack and max crit dmg (not skill crit dmg) and don't spam skills, just CW and auto attack.

When my dual was an Othell (switched during last red libre) I was +15 STR, +12 Bloody Duals with 15% CD Aug and I would regularly take (and hold) aggro from tanks/tyrrs/evis in Kama. Can't remember exact numbers but I was hitting 25k+ P.Attack.

Most daggers spam skills in PvE. And yes, while technically the stabs do more damage it isn't as much sustained DPS as simply hitting CW and then just auto attacking (assuming max p.attack/CD set up).

EDIT: Let me go ahead and add the disclaimer that this is on daily raids. If a regular mob is not resistant to half kills then the stab route is probably the way to go.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
Simple really; max p.attack and max crit dmg (not skill crit dmg) and don't spam skills, just CW and auto attack.

When my dual was an Othell (switched during last red libre) I was +15 STR, +12 Bloody Duals with 15% CD Aug and I would regularly take (and hold) aggro from tanks/tyrrs/evis in Kama. Can't remember exact numbers but I was hitting 25k+ P.Attack.

Most daggers spam skills in PvE. And yes, while technically the stabs do more damage it isn't as much sustained DPS as simply hitting CW and then just auto attacking (assuming max p.attack/CD set up).

EDIT: Let me go ahead and add the disclaimer that this is on daily raids. If a regular mob is not resistant to half kills then the stab route is probably the way to go.
seems you not know this class, if you hit behind you make more damage + heart make more, not sure why you not advice this.
on behind almost double damage and with heart +30% more crit damage
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

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Originally Posted by KissMyKnife View Post
seems you not know this class, if you hit behind you make more damage + heart make more, not sure why you not advice this.
on behind almost double damage and with heart +30% more crit damage
Interesting point; but..... if you are strong enough to take and HOLD aggro on a daily raid (Kama/AF, etc.) then how can you stay behind the boss.....

Oh wait, maybe it would be better to keep jumping back and forth every time the boss turns around; it's not like you will loss any DPS doing this .....err....umm....yeah.
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Old 01-24-2017, 05:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
Interesting point; but..... if you are strong enough to take and HOLD aggro on a daily raid (Kama/AF, etc.) then how can you stay behind the boss.....

Oh wait, maybe it would be better to keep jumping back and forth every time the boss turns around; it's not like you will loss any DPS doing this .....err....umm....yeah.
you need at least 1 more toon for enter to kama and 6 on AF
On af you need to wait and you can damage rb on behind, think man.
Heart give 30% more crit damage, worth it.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Quote:
Originally Posted by KissMyKnife View Post
you need at least 1 more toon for enter to kama and 6 on AF
On af you need to wait and you can damage rb on behind, think man.
Heart give 30% more crit damage, worth it.
OK, I'm really not sure you are understanding me so I am going to write this out as plainly as I can.

If you set your dagger up for max PvE damage (like I did) then you will take aggro in most pickup groups you join (like I did as well). It doesn't matter if it is Kama or AF. If you are strong enough you will take aggro and probably hold it. You keep making stupid comments like "damage rb on behind, think man..." Guess what, if you are holding aggro you ARE NOT behind the RB. If you try to Shadow Chase behind it, it turns. You can't stun the bosses in AF/Kama. So you have a choice, hold aggro IN FRONT of the boss or keep trying to Shadow Chase behind it every other second.

Additionally, I kept having to cancel Critical Prowess on my dagger for this very reason. I would flash behind the boss and do 30% more crit damage but as soon as he turned on me, guess what, I started doing 30% less damage.

What are we even talking about here? Have you ever duo'ed Kama (dagger/PoM Iss) on a dagger? I have; you CANNOT stay behind it.

Seriously, wtf man!

EDIT: Just to be clear for the OP, I was set up for max PvE damage. I don't remember my exact set up at the time but here is a short list of what I had:

140+ STR (I think I hit 145/6 with stew)
+8 Bloody Light Set (Enchant Type)
Insanity
lv4 Abun
Stage 16 Venir
+15 STR Tats
Max Dmg Boss Jewels (rare acc pack set)
Rulers Belt
All AP/Dual Skills in P.Attack
+12 Bloody Daggers with 2x lv6 Kains (Might, 7% P.Attack // Death 8% CD)
+15% CD aug
+15% CD aug (active)
4* Agathion
+7 Shiny Shirt
+3 STR / +5% P.Attack Acc.
Full lv4 PvE Gems (Emerald, Ruby, Opal, Diamond, Pearl)

EDIT 2: Just to be even MORE clear. With the above set up, on mobs that CANNOT be half killed, I did MORE DPS auto attacking than I did using stabs. And YES, my stabs still did more damage than auto attack crits BUT I could perform multiple auto attacks in the same amount of time as ONE stab.
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Last edited by Rodah; 01-24-2017 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
OK, I'm really not sure you are understanding me so I am going to write this out as plainly as I can.

If you set your dagger up for max PvE damage (like I did) then you will take aggro in most pickup groups you join (like I did as well). It doesn't matter if it is Kama or AF. If you are strong enough you will take aggro and probably hold it. You keep making stupid comments like "damage rb on behind, think man..." Guess what, if you are holding aggro you ARE NOT behind the RB. If you try to Shadow Chase behind it, it turns. You can't stun the bosses in AF/Kama. So you have a choice, hold aggro IN FRONT of the boss or keep trying to Shadow Chase behind it every other second.

Additionally, I kept having to cancel Critical Prowess on my dagger for this very reason. I would flash behind the boss and do 30% more crit damage but as soon as he turned on me, guess what, I started doing 30% less damage.

What are we even talking about here? Have you ever duo'ed Kama (dagger/PoM Iss) on a dagger? I have; you CANNOT stay behind it.

Seriously, wtf man!

EDIT: Just to be clear for the OP, I was set up for max PvE damage. I don't remember my exact set up at the time but here is a short list of what I had:

140+ STR (I think I hit 145/6 with stew)
+8 Bloody Light Set
Insanity
lv4 Abun
Stage 16 Venir
+15 STR Tats
Max Dmg Boss Jewels (rare acc pack set)
Rulers Belt
All AP/Dual Skills in P.Attack
+12 Bloody Daggers with 2x lv6 Kains (Might, 7% P.Attack // Death 8% CD)
+15% CD aug
+15% CD aug (active)
4* Agathion
+7 Shiny Shirt
+3 STR / +5% P.Attack Acc.
Full lv4 PvE Gems (Emerald, Ruby, Opal, Diamond, Pearl)
Sure dude, plz don't use clone ok? cause i might be right and rb cant attack you, or don't ask iss for attack rb first.
Anyway nice gear
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

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Originally Posted by KissMyKnife View Post
Sure dude, plz don't use clone ok? cause i might be right and rb cant attack you, or don't ask iss for attack rb first.
Anyway nice gear
Yes, because a box PoM Iss can hold aggro over my "old" dagger......

Seriously, why can't you just say you are wrong or, better yet, don't say anything at all. It would sure beat this crap you keep coming back with lol.
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

I got your point. Given that blows add a fix amount of power to your hits, with high enough P.Atk your dps is actually better with plain melee attacks

Although this route is too high-end setup for me. I would look forward more to a mid setup focusing in maximal blow dmg

Which SAs and APs would fit better?

I use Death 7% CritDmg and Fire 10% SkillCritDmg

For APs SkillCrit Rate+Dmg and Stun/Accuracy for both HiddenSkills. The rest in HP to be over 40k HP (less than that and you are 1shot in most 99+ instances)
I guess adding P.Atk and RearDmg to my APs would help since HiddenSkills doesn't add much in PvE
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

just to open some eyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgSmjJWj_cw&t=183s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8HUW_QZoCE
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

at least he know how to use skills cw then bluff and heart, proper use.
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

well maybe Rodah setup its better .. if he can post any video how kill that mobs on normal attack will be nice
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:33 AM   #13
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Well, I play very much the same style, just lacking a bit of shiny stuffs XD
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Old 02-03-2017, 07:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Hi Keoz,

The advice you are receiving in this thread is quite mixed...so I'll try and help clear this up for you and all other daggers trying to be PvE masters!


Why should you listen to me?

Wind Rider hero on Freya. I hunt Superion solo and kill 2x as fast as you see in the videos posted by smokas. (If there is interest in me doing so, I'll record a video and post a link in a follow-up reply.)


Avoid using auto-attack,

I've found it's absolutely useless to use auto-attack as a dagger; both in pve and pvp. Yes I said it. Do NOT use auto-attack. Even if you have downtime between your skills, assuming you lack the gear to continuously use your blows, there are better use of your downtime than auto-attacking, such as Power Bluff/Shadow Chase/Counter Evasion/Shadow Dodge/CW.

Use a single dagger,

This is a hot topic and I'm sure many will disagree, but from someone who's been playing dagger since GoD I hope you will take this advice to heart. Single daggers have a slightly shorter animation delay during blow skills. Realize, I said DELAY, that is I'm referring to the short delay before the blow is performed. Become aware of this delay. Be like the conductor of a virtual symphony. Knowing this will help you refine the art. Find the Bach within..

Test your blows often on a gatekeeper,

This is probably the single most important advice I can give your or any other daggers. We all know that item descriptions in game are often inconsistent, missing or just plain WRONG. Similiarly, there are many false rumors, truths, and/or assumptions floating around with game mechanics w.r.t. dagger blows and the stats which impact them. Forget everything you think you Know and hit a gatekeeper. Do it often. Just use blood stab, as it rarely _procs_ Mastery (not sure why) and provides for a more accurate test.

If you're ocd like myself, then you will find the scientific method to give you the confidence you need before making a permanent decision (i.e. removing an augment).

How to apply the scientific method guide...

Construct a Hypothesis: A hypothesis is an educated guess about how things work. It is an attempt to answer your question with an explanation that can be tested. A good hypothesis allows you to then make a prediction:
"If _____[I do this] _____, then _____[this]_____ will happen."
State both your hypothesis and the resulting prediction you will be testing. Predictions must be easy to measure.


Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment: Your experiment tests whether your prediction is accurate and thus your hypothesis is supported or not. It is important for your experiment to be a fair test. You conduct a fair test by making sure that you change only one factor at a time while keeping all other conditions the same.
You should also repeat your experiments several times to make sure that the first results weren't just an accident.


Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion: Once your experiment is complete, you collect your measurements and analyze them to see if they support your hypothesis or not.
Scientists often find that their predictions were not accurate and their hypothesis was not supported, and in such cases they will communicate the results of their experiment and then go back and construct a new hypothesis and prediction based on the information they learned during their experiment. This starts much of the process of the scientific method over again. Even if they find that their hypothesis was supported, they may want to test it again in a new way.

That's all for now. Hopefully this was helpful!

Last edited by Stinge12; 02-03-2017 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

well i know about normal attack and skills my point its to show to dont use normal attacks like Rodah told up, btw show any pve video on your dagger also your build ap/dyes etc
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:40 PM   #16
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Lightbulb Re: Othell in PvE

Here is a quick 3 minute clip I made just now. It's only 480p though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaHlxoMuhtk

A few things to point out before you watch the video....

My equipment is listed in the video description. Hunting superion is no easy task. But this thread is less about hunting superion and more about distilling truth into upcoming daggers. Sometimes it takes a burden of proof before you are heard. That's the entire purpose of this video. Do not be discouraged because of my gear. It's not the point.

Yes, I'm using a shield. It's a taboo as a dagger, I know I know (as you ), but it serves a purpose. You are immortal as long as you have CRITICAL buff triggered. You can only get this buff by taking damage. Your p.evasion will have negative consequences in this respect, as you will evade the Bathus and Carcass normal attacks more often than not. The shield therefore serves its purpose...but don't think you will run around in PvP with this thing. Be smart Be elusive. You are a dagger after all...

Notice how I rarely allow a single enemy to be attacking me. It's a bad use of your time....time is $$$$ when using 400 ncoin per hour in xp/vitality items.

Just because my blows are available, doesn't mean they are the best option. Try and incapacitate your targets. Get their backside. Ruler's ring offers an additional paralyze to your deck of cards. Power bluff is your best friend against Bathus, as they cannot be stunned. I use critical wound as needed. If my skill power mastery and critical damage procs are triggered, then I'll generally be hesitant to use CW as it could prevent me from getting off a final blow before they expire.

POM is essential. You will never see me hunting without it. If you are serious about taking your dagger to the next level, then invest some time to level an ISS to 101. The 25% increase in damage is significant due to the multipliers in damage your receive from critical damage + behind the back.


If you found the video helpful, let me know!. Or if the quality is soo awful you won't watch it, also let me know. I can make another in higher quality.

Last edited by Stinge12; 02-04-2017 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

nice video, btw can you tell me what dyes use dex or str and where you put ap on warrior or knight
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Use a single dagger,

This is a hot topic and I'm sure many will disagree, but from someone who's been playing dagger since GoD I hope you will take this advice to heart. Single daggers have a slightly shorter animation delay during blow skills. Realize, I said DELAY, that is I'm referring to the short delay before the blow is performed. Become aware of this delay. Be like the conductor of a virtual symphony. Knowing this will help you refine the art. Find the Bach within..


- just got a pve dual. ive been using single since 2012 and i can say that i also felt that delay
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

Hi Stinge, thanks for taking your time here and gz for your Hero in Freya. I'd gladly take some advices from you ^^

Single daggers eh? Most of the ppl both in game and forum tend to go for DDaggers but I'm also suspicious about popular knowledge. Some of the top daggers in Freya (Divekio, Marcelus, LaPuMa) use single too so there's that

Would you pick Single Kelbim over Dual? I won't invest as much as to get a Bloody/Dark so Kelbim seems a reasonable option for me

I want to ask for your dyes, SAs and APs since these are some of the most customizable and influencial things in the char I think

Also, kind of newbie question, what's the red light skill you use to paralyze? Is it the skill from the Ruler's Ring you mentioned?
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: Othell in PvE

If you ask me kelbim 1h or 2h for pve are same, you not may put them SA so best bonuse is 450 attr and you are ok with that. for pvp as chars what you mention 100% is more good use 1h weapon and this is same after GOD up in 2011. If some1 say the 2h is more good for pvp then he not use brain 100%.

For 1h/2h in pve with normal weapons not rb as kelbim other stuffs have deference as your setup and what you get or what lose from your other items (set/talisman/dye...) with use of 1h or 2h dagers. from experience as FS and then WR i may say the if have STR setup more good is 1h, if have DEX setup 1h or 2h is same so no point to change form one to other and invest but if you go in STR better use 1h from reasons what stinge say to not copy him.

My char is 80% DEX oriented as dwarf and only because good price what I get in moment when I buy my bloody +10 2h dagers I buy them (not special because they are duals), before I use kelbim 1h > 1h r99 > 2h r95 > 2h r.
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