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Old 06-17-2017, 12:04 AM   #1
PowerTitan
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Default Best sa

guys which are the best SA to pvp and pve and why?
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:01 AM   #2
DreamSeeker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerTitan View Post
guys which are the best SA to pvp and pve and why?
Magic Critical damage/HP + Magic Critical damage is the most common.

Acumen = Not so popular, with all the endgame gears and proper dyes, endgame Feoh already gets Max casting speed without Acumen SA on the weapon.

Magic Power = not as good as M.Critical damage. It's cuz Magic damage is not directly proportional to the Magic power of a feoh, it's the square root of the magic power. Whereas, Magic Critical damage directly increases the critical damage. This is why OE R, or R95 can never be as good as Bloody or Dark, cuz 15% PvE or PvP directly increases the damage.

Magic critical chance = not needed. Feoh's magic critical chance is capped at 330 at the moment, so no need for this either.

Last edited by DreamSeeker; 08-11-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:46 PM   #3
Devoid
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Default Re: Best sa

I can confirm everything that DreamSeeker said, with a few more points.

Some Feohs that intend to solo AoE areas intended for full party may opt for MCD/HP + HP + Sigel SAs; Feoh typically has no problem VRing any damage it takes, but still you must have enough HP to tank that damage in the first place. And in this particular scenario, having MP drained instead of HP is not what you want (perhaps level 5/6 Aqua owners could shed further light on this), so you can't "just use mana shield". In certain cases, PvP feohs may also opt for MCD/HP + HP SA combo, but only after getting Sigel and making sure that isn't enough (that's because in PvP you fire up some scrolls that you don't use in general 24/7 PvE).
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:14 AM   #4
Martin K
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Default Re: Best sa

HP on feoh? Its 14% from the HP+ Crititcal damage option. Thats 14% from the base value, which is much smaller because having robe equiped gives you static 5k or so HP, then, at +7 you get another static 5k or so HP. lol.

And I am not quite sure about the critical damage being better than m. att.
I understand that 10% only gives effective damage increase of ~5%, but, lets look at an example:

Base damage (normal, normal, crit.): 100 + 100 + 200 = 400
With 9% m. att. : 104.5 + 104.5 +209 = 418
With 10% crit: 100 + 100 + 210 = 410
hmm?
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Best sa

M.Atk. %(per) or +(diff) increase is trash because due to whatever reason it is not squared.

Base M.Atk. is squared
INT bonus is squared
CHA bonus is squared
Level bonus is squared

Since M.Atk. is generally squared, magic damage formula applies square root on M.Atk, which brings us to why increasing M.Atk. is generally a pointless alternative.

+50% M.Atk. (1.5x) will only give around 22% bonus to damage
+100% M.Atk. (2x) will only give around 41% bonus to damage
+300% M.Atk. (4x) will only give around 100% bonus to damage
+1100% M.Atk. (10x) will only give around 216% bonus to damage

Also, I would say your example should look like this:
Base damage (normal, normal, crit.): 100 + 100 + 200 = 400
With 9% m. att. : 104.4 + 104.4 +208.8 = 417.6
With 10% crit: 100 + 100 + 220 = 420
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: Best sa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post

Also, I would say your example should look like this:
Base damage (normal, normal, crit.): 100 + 100 + 200 = 400
With 9% m. att. : 104.4 + 104.4 +208.8 = 417.6
With 10% crit: 100 + 100 + 220 = 420
100 + 110% (of 100) is 210.

But OK, m. att. formula is ****** up.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Best sa

You are still going on about the squared thing?
Where do you get your info? some shady files from a private server claiming its official data? did you ever actually test it?

Logged a feoh, 64.3k M. Atk, was hitting between ~1.35-1.55k on mobs.
Did BR, got 126.6k M Atk, was hitting between ~1.7-1.9k on mobs.

With BR I had a 97% M. Atk boost, if I using your squared formula I should have been doing ~40% More damage... AKA between ~1.89k to 2.17k damage.
Obviously FAR from the damage I was doing.

Using the "Damage is boosted by 1/4 of the increased M. Atk" formula AKA 100% increased M. Atk = 25% more dmg..
it would be ~24% higher damage, AKA between ~1.67-1.92k damage.
Pretty much SPOT on.
This exact same formula is present when calculating P. Atk skill damage, I'd say its safe to assume it is used and thus accurate for M. Dmg too, no?

PS. Am doing macro with a healer atm, and with 2652 M. Atk I was hitting my char with 100 dmg average, with your logic of squared M. Atk, an increase of my M. Atk by 1000x would give me 2.652 million M. Atk, the square root of 1000x is = ~31, which would make me hit 31 times harder, aka 3.1k damage.
SO you're saying, with 2.6 million M. Atk on a healer, you give enemies 3100 damage.

Lets see the above example with the "1/4" formula instead..
1000x higher M. Atk equals 250x higher damage.. (1000/4=250)
100*250 = 25k damage.

What would you say sounds more plausible, 2.6million M Atk giving 3k damage or 25k damage?
(Not real world stats for anyone wondering obviously, was with 0 attribute attack etc, but still proves my point nicely)


Also to the guy above, you cant break it apart like that, critical damage is one thing, base damage is another.
200 is the critical damage, thus 10% of the critical damage is 20 extra, 200*1.1 = 220.

Last edited by Znipoo; 08-14-2017 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: Best sa

Ughh, you again. Why dont you understand that I am trying to understand myself and create searchable content for others, who are interested in this stuff?

What I did with my 100 + 100 + 200 example was take your square root method and apply it to some numbers, where it turned out that m. att. was still better. Then you come and say: well, thats not how crit. damage formula works. Ok. Good. Some info. Please stop accusing me of pulling my numbers of of my ***.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: Best sa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin K View Post
Ughh, you again. Why dont you understand that I am trying to understand myself and create searchable content for others, who are interested in this stuff?

What I did with my 100 + 100 + 200 example was take your square root method and apply it to some numbers, where it turned out that m. att. was still better. Then you come and say: well, thats not how crit. damage formula works. Ok. Good. Some info. Please stop accusing me of pulling my numbers of of my ***.
No, my post was aimed at Devoid (and dreamseeker), they post info without even checking if its accurate or not, dreamseeker is an expert at that.
In previous thread perhaps I misunderstood you, if you were asking about info I apologize, I just dont like when people post things w/o checking or backing it up first somehow.
That being said, if im wrong with my claims id appreciate if someone showed me how, cause in my testing this "square m atk" is flawed & doesnt even work in theory nor practice.
However the very simple method I use is accurate in all tests ive ever done.

For me, in every test ive done, M. Atk formula is simple;
Divide your new M. Atk with your Old M. Atk to get the % of M. Atk boost, divide that number by 4, and that shows how much more damage you would make in comparison between old & new M. Atk.

For example; 10000 M Atk to begin with, boost with 1000..
11000/10000 = 1.1
10% M. Atk boost
10%/4 = 2.5%
This means you will make 2.5% extra dmg with 11000 M. Atk, in comparison with 10k M. Atk.
So if you made 1000 damage with 10k M. Atk, you will make 1025 with 11000 M. Atk.

For anyone doubting,
Simple test if you got access to BR = Go hit some monsters that survive a few hits, note your damage. (normal damage is easiest to keep eye on, but critical damage works also.)
Now, take your damage and multiply it with;
1.25 ("My method") and 1.41 ("square method")
Now buff BR, hit the same mobs & note your damage, which one is more accurate? 1.25 or 1.41?
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:47 PM   #10
Devoid
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Default Re: Best sa

@Znippo: please disable bss while testing, ok? And no, that doesn't mean you can use normal ss instead.

If you must know, my information comes from DD and is valid for Helios. Nothing has yet changed regarding magic skill damage since then.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Best sa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoid View Post
@Znippo: please disable bss while testing, ok? And no, that doesn't mean you can use normal ss instead.

If you must know, my information comes from DD and is valid for Helios. Nothing has yet changed regarding magic skill damage since then.
Interesting, without BSS the square thing was accurate when I checked with BR.
but with BSS on, it was far from accurate.

I personally dont see the point of using that formula though as it pretty much makes no sense since the moment you turn BSS on, its not accurate.
Shed some light? am i missing some step of your square M. Atk thing to account for BSS use?
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:19 AM   #12
Martin K
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Neutron should do a lab test about this..
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:22 AM   #13
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Default Re: Best sa

Technically, a normal ss should make your effective matk double what you have and a bss would make it quadruple.
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