Aeore Healer cleanse

[Krissa]

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

Wynn Summoner are almost noncapable to deal physical damage in PvP (Cougars are melee and they ate almost every Superior Hate Aura from Sigel Knights, causing them to do almost no damage to tanks),

Doesn't mass cleanse from your 2 healers help you here?

Doesn't your own mass cleanse help too?

[Retri]

Originally Posted by Smittie

Exactly. The tank is one of the most important participants in party vs party pvp. I'm not sure most tanks realize it though. And the fact that they can put hate on a healer every few seconds means we need a way to get rid of that also, or have it just change target to them, not lock it.

Feels like the ppl wanting the nerf is more worried about their armor destruction not lasting its full 20 seconds though, or not being able to play piano on their dots and then use the collector skill...

Actually, end game pvp set-up is 3 healers and no tank. It basically will steam roll through anything because the DDs will never have hate, 3 100% Rez or 4 if there are 99 for the enchanter to Rez, and a ton of heals. Makes a tank irrelevant, but if they nerf purge (which they should) then they must also nerf hate.

Originally Posted by YourBad

Not at all what he said, basically said hate is cast so often the cleanse and party cleanse are the only way around that. Nerf one you've got to nerf the other..

Exactly

[Dreamer]

So basically the OP want Healers nerfed, Tanks Hate nerfed and his class boosted
I strongly recommend you to reroll to Tank/Healer if you aren't able to deal any dmg with your summons and rely only on ur debuffs.

[Ninja Proxy]

Originally Posted by Dreamer

So basically the OP want Healers nerfed, Tanks Hate nerfed and his class boosted
I strongly recommend you to reroll to Tank/Healer if you aren't able to deal any dmg with your summons and rely only on ur debuffs.

So Basically what I'm saying is, That even if i spent tons of Euro/dollars on DEWR like you Pathfinder, I still wont be able to deliver dmg in party Vs party pvp...
Cause my role in a party is not to burst down enemy through constant dps, My role is to debuff,control,nullify the Dps,heal power of the enemy team, which atm is imposible cause of the healer cleanse.

Moreover, I doubt you can test any of these in the current clan you r in. So your opinion is totally based in assumptions. If you have anything to say concerning PvE, pls go ahead.

[Smittie]

Originally Posted by Krissa

Doesn't mass cleanse from your 2 healers help you here?

Doesn't your own mass cleanse help too?

Well we cant really have him do a 180 and start arguing FOR cleanse at this point, can we?

Would be funny if we could though.

[Ninja Proxy]

Originally Posted by Krissa

Doesn't mass cleanse from your 2 healers help you here?

Doesn't your own mass cleanse help too?

Help me do what? Just standing there w8ing for my re-uses to reset so i can try dps again? Wynn is always last target in PvP, for the wrong reasons.

It should have been the same reason like tyr is last target, "Harder to kill" yet, the reason for wynn is just his inability to dps, CC anything.

[Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

So Basically what I'm saying is, That even if i spent tons of Euro/dollars on DEWR like you Pathfinder, I still wont be able to deliver dmg in party Vs party pvp...
Cause my role in a party is not to burst down enemy through constant dps, My role is to debuff,control,nullify the Dps,heal power of the enemy team, which atm is imposible cause of the healer cleanse.

Moreover, I doubt you can test any of these in the current clan you r in. So your opinion is totally based in assumptions. If you have anything to say concerning PvE, pls go ahead.

Sounds like someone is mad

So basically your role are DoT's (like your Marks) + Exile's?
Excuse me, but aren't DoT's + Retriver also dmg skills? Do your Cougar's/Reapers 0 dmg?
Seriously, if you say that you do 0 dmg with your summons and you wanna focus only with your debuffs, then stop pvping.

PS: Aren't you the one that assume a lot?
Do you know if/how many DEWR i used, if i pvp or not, if our clan pvp's or not?
Sorry, haven't seen you stalking me at every step i do ingame


But still, you are not happy with your Wynn? You feel useless?
-> Feel free to reroll to any of the classes which you think that might be better.

[Ninja Proxy]

Originally Posted by Dreamer

Sounds like someone is mad

So basically your role are DoT's (like your Marks) + Exile's?
Excuse me, but aren't DoT's + Retriver also dmg skills? Do your Cougar's/Reapers 0 dmg?
Seriously, if you say that you do 0 dmg with your summons and you wanna focus only with your debuffs, then stop pvping.

PS: Aren't you the one that assume a lot?
Do you know if/how many DEWR i used, if i pvp or not, if our clan pvp's or not?
Sorry, haven't seen you stalking me at every step i do ingame


But still, you are not happy with your Wynn? You feel useless?
-> Feel free to reroll to any of the classes which you think that might be better.

There are many reasons to be mad in this game, You and the rest here are not, seriously.

As far as the Dots are concerned, if you bother reading the skill description, you'll understand that their primary use is not dmg oriented.

there is a certain pattern you need to follow in order to optimize DoT rotation,
Wynns that aimlessly spam DoT(God make them spamable) combining it w/ retriver, clearly have no idea how to play their class.

The only Mark that is purely dmg oriented is mark of plague.

Mark of void imo, should never be used on an enemy.

Mark of trick is there to prevent skill usage

Mark of weakeness is there to ensure Debuff land rate.

I use exile mostly on my TP summon when facing Heavy dps DD, especially when mark of weakness fails to land. (1v1 situation).

But in 7v7 situation, any tactic as wynn is nullified. simply cause mass Pvp is most of the time dumb & srtaightforward Dps race.

[Smittie]

And since you ONLY have 3-4 summons, your dps must be too low, right?

Can we keep cleanse and maybe give you 8 summons at once?

Or do you still think your class is all about a few marks?

I remember watching a pvp video where the party had 2 healers, 1 tank, 1 iss and 3 summoners. Clearly that party must have never killed a single thing. But ppl still died in the other party. How do we explain this? Is there more to Wynn than just some marks?

[Ninja Proxy]

Originally Posted by Smittie

I remember watching a pvp video where the party had 2 healers, 1 tank, 1 iss and 3 summoners. Clearly that party must have never killed a single thing. But ppl still died in the other party. How do we explain this? Is there more to Wynn than just some marks?

All your questions are ansqwered like 2 weeks ago. But you never bother reading any posts.

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

In mass pvp, Wynn has no constant dmg, so any other DD is far better than a single wynn in a 7 man pty...

As I said in another post, 1 wynn in pty is like -1DD, 2 wynns in pty is like 1 DD...
3 wynns in a pty = WIN. (unless ppl decide to change party set up to 3 healers) And that alone proves that Healers make wynns useless if played properly.

[Smittie]

I get it, your pets dont do any dmg.

But everyone elses pets does, so this must be a client side problem.

I suggest you send in support ticket. And keep that offtopic off this topic.

[Ninja Proxy]

Originally Posted by Smittie

I get it, your pets dont do any dmg.

But everyone elses pets does, so this must be a client side problem.

I suggest you send in support ticket. And keep that offtopic off this topic.

Hehe... Well, trying to force people to call you names just to get them banned from the forum is completely retarted, even for you

The alternative is to try finding arguments!
Near imposible for some ppl, I know, but you can always have a go on that perspective.

[Smittie]

Your failure to read doesnt mean I have no arguments bro.

Update your client, there is something wrong with your pets, they deal no dmg.

And how can anyone force someone to call them names?

[Krissa]

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

Help me do what?

Help you to cleanse that:

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

(Cougars are melee and they ate almost every Superior Hate Aura from Sigel Knights, causing them to do almost no damage to tanks),

After all, you are playing a class that is called a "summoner". Not a "debuffer".

[Ninja Proxy]

Originally Posted by Krissa

After all, you are playing a class that is called a "summoner". Not a "debuffer".

Don't tell me what my class can or can't do.
Also, cougars are useless in pvp, due to PvP dmg penalty from c4 & their melee nature which makes them perma kiteable.
Even the "cougar pounce" which is a nice gap-closer skill w/ very low re-use doesn't help, since summons if kited they will never deliver any attack(game mechanic bug since forever).
Moreover, if the target decides to stay put, unless he wears robe the dmg is very low even w/ bow+light+transformation+ str dyes.

The only way to play wynn in pvp is Reapers+mage set-up
Their nukes are quit good, BUT, PvP penalty + long re-use + low magic abilities (you cant increase MC rate more than 160-180 depending the augment/talisman used.)

Maybe at 99 there is room for wynn in PvP due to the "recovery" enchant option, if all skills are +10, but that doesnt make it OK. cause his CC utility will always be nulified by healers.

http://www.lineage2.com/gd/classes.php#summoner

Wynn Summoners attack from range with magical spells. They summon mighty, free-willed servitors (pets) that are a force to be reckoned with. They provide backup tanking when needed through their summoned servitors and can summon multiple servitors to grab the upper hand in combat.
Wynn Summoners enhance a party's magical attacks by decreasing enemies' resistance to magic or their resistance to debuff abilities. They have mesmerizing abilities that can weaken enemies at range. They use strong debuffs that they can also detonate, dealing massive damage.

Originally Posted by Smittie

Your failure to read doesnt mean I have no arguments bro.

/ignored
Communicating w/ a brick wall seems easier.

[Pandema]

Originally Posted by Pandema

cleanse should not clear dbuf, but just take away the effect.

reset should be availble at the same lvl as cleanse, and not just reset the timer, but make the dbuf active again.

this way dbuffer can keep using there dbuf skill's, and it's up to the healers, if those dbuf's are working or not.

ofcourse ******* healer's wil have a big advantage as alway's.. but who care's right

.....

[Krissa]

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

Don't tell me what my class can or can't do.

Me?

It's you who are telling us what your class "cannot" do here.

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

Also, cougars are useless in pvp, due to PvP dmg penalty from c4 & their melee nature which makes them perma kiteable.
Even the "cougar pounce" which is a nice gap-closer skill w/ very low re-use doesn't help, since summons if kited they will never deliver any attack(game mechanic bug since forever).
Moreover, if the target decides to stay put, unless he wears robe the dmg is very low even w/ bow+light+transformation+ str dyes.

The only way to play wynn in pvp is Reapers+mage set-up
Their nukes are quit good, BUT, PvP penalty + long re-use + low magic abilities (you cant increase MC rate more than 160-180 depending the augment/talisman used.)

Cool. And for all of this, you are going to blame healers' cleanse.

Or maybe you should blame their healing power? Or their runspeed?

Anyway, as I already said, L2 summoners have never been masters of group PvP. Maybe there is a reason why they have all these penalties since C4

Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy

Wynn Summoners attack from range with magical spells. They summon mighty, free-willed servitors (pets) that are a force to be reckoned with. They provide backup tanking when needed through their summoned servitors and can summon multiple servitors to grab the upper hand in combat.
Wynn Summoners enhance a party's magical attacks by decreasing enemies' resistance to magic or their resistance to debuff abilities. They have mesmerizing abilities that can weaken enemies at range. They use strong debuffs that they can also detonate, dealing massive damage.

Conveniently put on the last place. Still working for PvE, though (compare it with what they were writing for Prophets...)

[Smittie]

Nice to know that when ppl dont have real arguments they think its ok to just ignore instead.

Good luck with your summoner Ninja, or just good luck with learning how to play it...