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Old 08-11-2017, 12:46 PM   #1
PinkFloyd
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Default Tank's Future..

Does anything have a definitive answer if the tank is doomed or not with the "tank update" that Korea is testing/using atm?

If this answer is "yes" can you please give some brief examples...

Tanks are already being 3,4 shot by these people with endless wallets.. Im really hoping for some improvement's here..

Thank you in advance..
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
Does anything have a definitive answer if the tank is doomed or not with the "tank update" that Korea is testing/using atm?

If this answer is "yes" can you please give some brief examples...

Tanks are already being 3,4 shot by these people with endless wallets.. Im really hoping for some improvement's here..

Thank you in advance..
In before Dreacke "doom and gloom" reply.

Based on my reading of patch notes and Korean forums it looks like most tanks are getting a boost as well as a circumstantial nerf.

Nerfs first...

Multiple Tanks can no longer chain UDs in PvP. UDs are getting an effect similar to healers Celest "debuff." The 1 minutes penalty which prevents chaining celest.

Addionally; HKs are getting a significant PvE nerf. However; the other tank classes should be stronger in PvE. Dreacke will post soon saying how bad this is but the reality is that the HK were/are too far ahead of every other tank when it comes to PvE. It isn't even close. With equal gear an HK can literally do 10x the damage of the next strongest PvE tank (SK). I'm not even going to compare them to PK/ET; just a joke. The counter argument which Draecke may put forth is that HK isn't as good as ET/PK/SK in PvP. While this is true it is also misleading. HK can still perform a tanks role in PvP and they certainly aren't twice as bad as an ET/PK/SK.

Moving on; the update really will be a diversification. All tanks are getting unique active/passive skills. It's hard to say how they will stack up in PvE/PvP but my take is that you will still need one in PvP and they will be better in PvE.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

I'm a 101 PK and i can tell you this.. There should be NO way... NOOO WAY.... a player should be able to 3,4 shot me. Its NUTS.. My gear is decent also..

I don't even care if i did 2 damage in pvp.. AS LONG as my defense reflects what i AM... A TANK...

Oh well, until then i'll have fun with it.. i guess.. lol
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
I'm a 101 PK and i can tell you this.. There should be NO way... NOOO WAY.... a player should be able to 3,4 shot me. Its NUTS.. My gear is decent also..

I don't even care if i did 2 damage in pvp.. AS LONG as my defense reflects what i AM... A TANK...

Oh well, until then i'll have fun with it.. i guess.. lol
hmm, IDK man.

I am a 103 ET with close to "end-game" gear and the only person who can 2/3 shot me on Chronos is a nuker with a stage 2 dragon weap. Even then he has to either be skilled or have debuffs on me. Archers/nukers with +16 3x SA weaps are nothing. The top geared archers on server only skill crit me for 15/20k.....

I'm not sure what you are doing wrong.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:03 PM   #5
Draecke
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

the biggest PVE change is on the reworked True Vanguard which will no longer increase PVE dps with 60%, for the new True Vanguard you will need a high OE shield as it's pdef will be added to your patt

all 101 tank aura's will be changed which will be somewhat of a boost for all tanks except HK for whom it will be a huge nerf PVE wise, particularly when used in combo of True Vanguard

all tanks will get a new ranged dps skill

party ud's will be limited to once per minute also ud's will be heavily influenced by the pdef of your gear

noble sacrifice will have a huge re use time and won't be 90% of the damage anymore

all in all for defense style tanks this will be a boost if they have good gear, for offense or those tanks who for whatever reason play often solo/duo they will notice a dps nerf if they used to play with the current True Vanguard/HK aura.

PVP wise I expect any tank that wants to be something will need to have at least a +10 PVP set now.. +8 won't be good enough anymore

there were many small changes per tank type but the above covers the important bits

ah final note, don't oe skills on tanks anymore unless you know for sure those skills will remain unchanged as many got changed with no refund if they were oe'd - clear example are the 101 aura's

be glad NCWest has chaos essence in their l2store so if folks don't like they can change but imo considering the huge amount of changes which btw will also happen on the ISS class I would say by the time this gets released demand a free chaos essence as you got zero choice int he matter here


ps, the only real advantage HK has/had over the other tanks is the 25% crit damage boost & 10% more patt from it's 101 Aura compared to Rage aura - the panther version of crit wound isn't bad either but dies pretty fast so not as useful as some might think
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
hmm, IDK man.

I am a 103 ET with close to "end-game" gear and the only person who can 2/3 shot me on Chronos is a nuker with a stage 2 dragon weap. Even then he has to either be skilled or have debuffs on me. Archers/nukers with +16 3x SA weaps are nothing. The top geared archers on server only skill crit me for 15/20k.....

I'm not sure what you are doing wrong.
Yea, im not sure.. But basically this is what im using..

All skills +10 and 11
+8 Bloody Heavy armor
Soul Ant
Ring of Creation
Soul Frint
Istina
Special Resis. Stun Earing
LvL3 Diamond
LvL2 Topaz
LvL4 Ruby
Obsidian lvl2
+5 Reflect Shirt
PvP Def. Belt
Excaulted Cloak
Excaulted Tiara
Abundance lvl1
Talisman annihilation (saving up for Longing)
Con Braclet
+15 Con Tats
+10 R99 Cutter with Body ( cant afford 2nd SA yet )
Dual99 Went all HP.. 24%


I know its nothing compared to most.. but i thought it was ok... :P

Im a 101 PK
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Next update will be wonderful, PvPs would be more challenging and playing tank would actually requires talent to play compare to now wherein mostly players who plays tank plays it as if they are just like box toons spam agro,UD/PT rescue and rez. Best of all is that 2 tank setup on PvPs would be nonviable anymore since it will just result as a disadvantage. Overall it will require a talented player to maximize the effectiveness of tanks in PvPs of to which I highly doubt there are many who can rose to the challenge I'm leaning more towards to a reality that many tanks will play another class
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:36 PM   #8
Rodah
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
Yea, im not sure.. But basically this is what im using..

All skills +10 and 11
+8 Bloody Heavy armor
Soul Ant
Ring of Creation
Soul Frint
Istina
Special Resis. Stun Earing
LvL3 Diamond
LvL2 Topaz
LvL4 Ruby
Obsidian lvl2
+5 Reflect Shirt
PvP Def. Belt
Excaulted Cloak
Excaulted Tiara
Abundance lvl1
Talisman annihilation (saving up for Longing)
Con Braclet
+15 Con Tats
+10 R99 Cutter with Body ( cant afford 2nd SA yet )
Dual99 Went all HP.. 24%


I know its nothing compared to most.. but i thought it was ok... :P

Im a 101 PK
Honestly; if you fight an archer with comparable gear to yourself you will be fine.

However; if you fight an end game archer you will be toast.

Not much else to say. I'm curious to know if you actually think you should be able to withstand hits from a 105 full dark archer.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:30 PM   #9
Draecke
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
Yea, im not sure.. But basically this is what im using..

All skills +10 and 11
+8 Bloody Heavy armor
Soul Ant
Ring of Creation
Soul Frint
Istina
Special Resis. Stun Earing
LvL3 Diamond
LvL2 Topaz
LvL4 Ruby
Obsidian lvl2
+5 Reflect Shirt
PvP Def. Belt
Excaulted Cloak
Excaulted Tiara
Abundance lvl1
Talisman annihilation (saving up for Longing)
Con Braclet
+15 Con Tats
+10 R99 Cutter with Body ( cant afford 2nd SA yet )
Dual99 Went all HP.. 24%


I know its nothing compared to most.. but i thought it was ok... :P

Im a 101 PK
read closely what rodah just wrote, look at your gear and realize that those that 2 shot you have pvp gear where as you have almost zero pvp defense items besides the pvp def belt & obsidian lvl 2..

use freya barriers at next siege/pvp and you'll notice a huge difference, those are still relatively cheap atm so best buy a bunch as that wont last
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:56 AM   #10
PinkFloyd
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
Honestly; if you fight an archer with comparable gear to yourself you will be fine.

However; if you fight an end game archer you will be toast.

Not much else to say. I'm curious to know if you actually think you should be able to withstand hits from a 105 full dark archer.
I totally agree that a 105 should destroy me. hehe.. i know about the lvl difference's.. That part is all understandable..
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:58 AM   #11
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
Honestly; if you fight an archer with comparable gear to yourself you will be fine.

However; if you fight an end game archer you will be toast.

Not much else to say. I'm curious to know if you actually think you should be able to withstand hits from a 105 full dark archer.
What items would you suggest i should be looking to get?
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
What items would you suggest i should be looking to get?
Full Dark set = -20% PvP Damage
+10 set = adds 10% more Physical Defense
Blessed Anthy = adds about 10% more Physical Defense
Obsidian LvL 4 = -11% PvP damage, LvL 5 = -15% PvP damage
Tauti Ring = +5 PvP damage/ -5% PvP damage Taken
Elemental shirt +7 = 5 sec invincibility skill, +8 = cannot be targeted for 5 sec
or higher LeveL Reflect shirt = higher Physical defense %
2nd SA with HP option/3rd SA Sigel = 25% HP, COC belt, Anakim, 7 sign Talisman...etc...

For PvE, Bloody Rules but for PvP Dark Rules, also level up more? I got a feeling that it's probably 3+ level difference. Well, you can't possibly have everything all at once. My advice to you would be level up more and switch to Dark set and fill the rest over the time. I think tanks do the tanking with their level more so than their gears. At higher level, you should be able to tank even with dark set provided you have the other stuff.

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Old 08-12-2017, 09:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

As most of us tanks arent looking forward to this update as the translated notes are generally hard to follow, we need to wait and see what we get here. the most notable difference will be having to wait 1 whole minute to chain a party UD (lmao big deal if u cant survive without a min in between u shouldn't be in that pvp). This has people already in 2 tank CPs planning on which tank will change to a DD or 2nd ISS. Which im sure many people will do it maybe the new "pvp set up" or maybe its possible a tank hate and aggression can be utilized more with the lack of defensive skills of enemy party? Any skill that can silence your enemy is still the most useful debuff in game. A lot of variables need to be seen and weighed when it finally does make it here, the only thing i will agree with is to not enchant skills much more, as its likely we get nothing in return for them, but then again maybe we get immotal scrolls and immortal scroll stage 1's ? fact is no one here knows what we are gonna get here...
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamSeeker View Post
Full Dark set = -20% PvP Damage
+10 set = adds 10% more Physical Defense
Blessed Anthy = adds about 10% more Physical Defense
Obsidian LvL 4 = -11% PvP damage, LvL 5 = -15% PvP damage
Tauti Ring = +5 PvP damage/ -5% PvP damage Taken
Elemental shirt +7 = 5 sec invincibility skill, +8 = cannot be targeted for 5 sec
or higher LeveL Reflect shirt = higher Physical defense %
2nd SA with HP option/3rd SA Sigel = 25% HP, COC belt, Anakim, 7 sign Talisman...etc...

For PvE, Bloody Rules but for PvP Dark Rules, also level up more? I got a feeling that it's probably 3+ level difference. Well, you can't possibly have everything all at once. My advice to you would be level up more and switch to Dark set and fill the rest over the time. I think tanks do the tanking with their level more so than their gears. At higher level, you should be able to tank even with dark set provided you have the other stuff.
well, that's over or near 400 Billion that you're talking about there, never going to happen. Im pretty amazed how much some people spend on this.. hehe.. to each his own i guess..

That would take me many years to get that kind of money considering the game is designed to point everyone to the L2 Store Icon..

I guess im happy with what i have atm.. And for being 3 to 6 shot by the peeps that spent 5,10,15,20k+ Thats why they make B-Rez's hehehe
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quick question....

So is a +10 Heavy set normal... Better than a +8 Bloody set atm?
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
well, that's over or near 400 Billion that you're talking about there, never going to happen. Im pretty amazed how much some people spend on this.. hehe.. to each his own i guess..

That would take me many years to get that kind of money considering the game is designed to point everyone to the L2 Store Icon..

I guess im happy with what i have atm.. And for being 3 to 6 shot by the peeps that spent 5,10,15,20k+ Thats why they make B-Rez's hehehe
Tbh i don't think the 2 tanks setup is going to die for real.
First of all who is supposed to soak up all the dmg lvl 6 jewels are and will be doing more and more? An iss? Well i saw a video posted by MS where an incoming iss lasted 2 hits .. 2 hits with 2 healers supporting him.

I'll give you an hint why so many casters are obscuring part of their bar

4 Greater Jewels Equipped For 30 seconds, party members' M. Atk. +400% and P. Atk +100%.
15-minute reuse time.

Tell the second iss to do something about that.

And oh why the hell you will need a 2nd iss when u can have 7+1 rapsos in a chain?
The only reason to change the second tank for a second iss is to have 7+2 rapsos in a chain if you manage to survive the first enemy rapso obviously.

For the rest l2 isn't hello kitty's game since 10 years. It has always been a p2w game. If you can't afford it there are so many last generation games that cost less than 35 ultimate jewelry boxes and last for 5 years.

Lastly. A tank has to lvl to 105 gearing up as he raises in lvls.
400 billions are, to say the least, the fastest way to look for ants on the ground on sieges and open pvps. To Pvp properly nowadays you will need something like 900 billions, counting in all lvl 6 jewels and 6 sloot brooches. If the augmentation will be implemented the "prize" rises to 1.3 - 1.4kkkk

P.s. if you get a 7s you won't need anakim but if you have a 7s you are an rmter or you purchased it from a rmter. There isn't a third option.

Tanks vs the others is not a matter of lvl but it's a matter of gear as rodah pointed out.
Btw tank vs tank is only a matter of enchanted skills.
Just done a match vs the chronos ST hero .... meh he (104 ?) won just because he has all +15 and I (101) all +0
Btw gf bro

P.s. 2 Mixaaaaaaaaaa I'm comiiiiiiiiiiiingggggggggggggggggggg


Edit: sorry Pink I've seen it too late. Rodah will answer better than I could ever do but I owned a +8 bloody.
It's like a +16 blessed specter bow 3sa WoW
till ncsoft made the R99 bows.

First a +10 now is the top. If you want to pve go bloody if you want to pvp go dark and you won't have to change nothing for now.
It's like hey i have the money to buy an insanity but no i'll take a longing and save the rest. For what?

Second a +8 is a pain in the as s to resell. I left naia almost a month ago and there was a dude evastemplar if I do remember well selling a +8 bloody.
Today i logged in on naia to see some prices on there cuz chronos's ones are much more insane and guess what the dude was trying to sell that +8 bloody set ... after a month and an half .................................

Tbh Draecke has been too politically correct, as usual. I'll tell you the truth as it is. Going on a siege with a +8 bloody and an obsidian lvl 2 is like going in Fallujah with flowers instead of napalm. You are dead meat just that or, if you prefer, a slow moving target = crp -1

Just think if you can invest money on this game as your only hobby and act accordingly.
For the rest Draecke and Rodah are much more able in the tank role teaching, and tbh much more kind, than I could ever be ;P
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:23 PM   #17
DreamSeeker
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkFloyd View Post
Quick question....

So is a +10 Heavy set normal... Better than a +8 Bloody set atm?
+ 8 Bloody set is still better than +10 set. The only reason why +10 set is so expensive is because it can go +10 Bloody or +10 Dark; but as it is, +8 bloody set is better.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamSeeker View Post
+ 8 Bloody set is still better than +10 set. The only reason why +10 set is so expensive is because it can go +10 Bloody or +10 Dark; but as it is, +8 bloody set is better.
Don't get me wrong Dream you are right but you have to tell to the guy to answer to 3 simply questions

1st Do you want to invest real money on this game as your only hobby?
If the answer is no +8 bloody is fine. If the answer is yes see point 2

2nd What is the future of a +8 bloody set? The same of a longing talisman.
It will be a pain in the *** to upgrade to insanity or it will be a pain in the *** to sell the +8 to buy a +10 and to make the +10 bloody or dark.
If you want to spend a few bucks to enjoy L2 NA stop here. Otherwise see point 3

3rd The point is if you want to pvp on NA servers you will need tons of real cash to gear your toon properly and if you are a tank the armor is the first thing to have. Nowadays going around with a +8 bloody is like committing suicide not because it's a +8 but because it hasn't any future.
Have you ever tried to overenchant a normal +8 d grade piece of armor to + 9? Don't never ever try it. Imagine to overenchant a +8 bloody piece of armor. And bla bla bla.

4th If you play L2 NA daily try to watch out in ah +10 hv prices. 1 Month ago r99 +10 hv bp 15-16kkk today 14-13.5kkk. R99 +10 Hv gaiter 1 month ago 13-14kkk today 12.5 but blessed. Where is going the R99 +10 hv market is obvious but it's up to you to choose the right moment to upgrade if you want to remembering that selling that +8 bloody will be a true, real, nightmare cuz noone wants it anymore.

It's up to you to what you can committ to this game and so on.

I wish you the best.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

the reason i mentioned switching to ISS from tank for 2nd iss is for the new harmonies melodies ect that the iss will be getting. my guess is u didnt know about them getting combo harmonies and stuff but now u do, and knowledge is power!
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tank's Future..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MashaWithoutBear View Post

And oh why the hell you will need a 2nd iss when u can have 7+1 rapsos in a chain?
The only reason to change the second tank for a second iss is to have 7+2 rapsos in a chain if you manage to survive the first enemy rapso obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepThePeace View Post
the reason i mentioned switching to ISS from tank for 2nd iss is for the new harmonies melodies ect that the iss will be getting. my guess is u didnt know about them getting combo harmonies and stuff but now u do, and knowledge is power!
So for the time being this is all educated speculation based off translated Korean Patch Notes / Forums.

Here is the big issue; ATM tanks are only doing a handful of things in PvP. They Party UD, Noble Sac, and "try" to debuff. I say "try" for two reasons; one, end game 2 healer groups have near constant purge up and two, with the increase in items which have debuff reflect, tanks are more and more often reflecting hate back on themselves.

In the next update a few important changes are being implemented which render the two tank setup nonviable. We have already mentioned the "lingering effect" debuff on party UD BUT, noble sac is also getting severely nerfed. It's base reuse has been increased to 300 seconds (5 minutes) and it no longer absorbs 90% damage. Additionally; the silence effect of Justice Punishment has been changed to slow.......

So what now? What are tanks doing when they don't have party UD up? Debuff landrate/hold rate are iffy at best, no more noble sac, and their damage is abysmal. So yes, you absolutely still need one tank but I literally think any class would be an upgrade over a second tank (maybe not poor Wynn ).

About the Iss comment. As KTP mentioned the Iss class is also getting a major diversification and we will have an extra spot in party. Well, did you know that Doomcryers are getting improved Sonatas (called Drumbeats). They fuction the same as Sons/Dances but they give a higher boost and have lower duration. DCs are also getting a combo harmony (war/wiz). Heiro is getting double PoM, SD is getting lv2 Warr Harm, and SWM is getting lv2 Wiz harm.

Now we have some options for that extra slot; do we add a stacked DD or do we run Heiro/DC combo with archers as DDs. In the 2x Iss scenario you now have 2x Archers that will, presumably, never get debuffed (purge/angels) who both have PoM, better Sonatas, and the new combo War/Wiz (high skill reuse). Or maybe Heiro/SD and then DDs get lv2 Warr and PoM as well as a second ultimate which stacks with BR.

IDK, just some food for thought and, this could all be academic anyway if we don't get all of these changes. Having said that; with only minor changes we generally get everything Korea gets (structural game content, not L2 Store).
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