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Old 07-08-2012, 03:31 AM   #1
Ninja Proxy
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Default Aeore Healer cleanse

Healers have so many cleanse capabilities, with very low re-use, w/ 2 cleanse almost spamable.
It is rather oxymorous that a healer can cleanse any 5-10min re-use skill relatively easy every 1 second.

Classes that are heavily depended on debuffs like wynn, have crazy long re-use on their skills...
Using for example "dimensional binding" that has a 4-5min re-use means almost nothing in mass pvp...
Marks & exiles in party vs party pvp are almost useless Vs a good / auto healer
Everything is instantly cleansed...

I still can't understand why the long re-use on debuff skills in this game.
Since the implementation of "diminishing marginal returns" there is no point to make some classes useless by giving long re-uses to their skills...

Last edited by Ninja Proxy; 07-08-2012 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

I agree it was very stupid of the devs to put many cures/cleanses on 1 class with low re-use.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

I enjoy it with my healer.
(btw I agree)
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy View Post
Healers have so many cleanse capabilities, with very low re-use, w/ 2 cleanse almost spamable.
It is rather oxymorous that a healer can cleanse any 5-10min re-use skill relatively easy every 1 second.

Classes that are heavily depended on debuffs like wynn, have crazy long re-use on their skills...
Using for example "dimensional binding" that has a 4-5min re-use means almost nothing in mass pvp...
Marks & exiles in party vs party pvp are almost useless Vs a good / auto healer
Everything is instantly cleansed...

I still can't understand why the long re-use on debuff skills in this game.
Since the implementation of "diminishing marginal returns" there is no point to make some classes useless by giving long re-uses to their skills...
So far I have no complains from my wynn on pvp. I manage to use my debuffs on time and still kill ppl fast. btw, you should buff with wizard harmony and use magic weapon for pvp. I see many wynns roll with bow + warrior harmony doesn't help a lot unless you using cougars and your target is not moving at all (or you are using final form like i do sometimes and instantly kill ppl but that is if you are a kamael) . When all 3 marks land, combined with high matk and INT you can deliver some powerful dmg on the enemy with mark retriever, but that is as long as you use it. Just put some INT dyes, get a retributer +4 with 300 element and you can reach a lot of m.atk.

Also, marks are not supposed to kill someone by DOT. Exile reuse time is rather quick with wizards harmony, but mass exile is kinda slow i would say, yet used on perfect time, you can stop a healer or even two at same time with good timing.

You wrote that some classes useless, which ones? Wynn Summoner? One of the most powerful classes in game atm and I'm not the only one to confirm this. Healers are healers and they are perfectly fine the way they are if you ask me.

But you also said, some skills are useless against good / auto healers so I guess the problem is not the skills but the players. I don't see the problem here, you want to spam debuffs because healers can clean fast but healers clean fast because all DD target the healers and not you.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

Well, healers are supposed to be the counter-class for summoners... Not that Erase Impact is useful.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

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Originally Posted by Tiferet1 View Post
Well, healers are supposed to be the counter-class for summoners... Not that Erase Impact is useful.
TBH, so far it looks like healers are suposed to be the counter for every class ingame. Cleanse abilities should have been split with ISS.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

That's unbalanced PvP for you
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

I dont really see how the low re-use of cleanse is broken.

You still have to target ppl and cleanse, its not like you automatically do it (then again, I dont play on Naia, might be different there?).

I do know pvp lasts alot longer now than it did a few years back, and I do like that.

What is the reuse on the mass cleanse, I dont have that one yet, but I'm guessing its more than 1-2 seconds.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skelton View Post
You wrote that some classes useless, which ones? Wynn Summoner? One of the most powerful classes in game atm and I'm not the only one to confirm this. Healers are healers and they are perfectly fine the way they are if you ask me.
I never said that wynn is useless in all aspects of the game. In Pve field atm is the best soloer in party areas... one of the best 1v1 player especially against newbies. even a bad player can play wynn and feel strong.

But, versus expirienced players wynn is failing. and especially w/ the upcoming glory days update... I see no room for wynn pvp/pve wise.

What most ppl dont know is... that in open pvp... a wynn is the easiest char to kite. keeping the distance when needed over "600" range and wynn is useless. for close range adversaries it is a bit trickier but if u know the "balance heal" skill visualisation you can easily interupt it... especially if u are using "complemeting" programs

In mass pvp, Wynn has no constant dmg, so any other DD is far better than a single wynn in a 7 man pty...

As I said in another post, 1 wynn in pty is like -1DD, 2 wynns in pty is like 1 DD...
3 wynns in a pty = WIN. (unless ppl decide to change party set up to 3 healers) And that alone proves that Healers make wynns useless if played properly.

Healer clease capabilities:

-Tree Cleanse: (which is like perma cleanse if you spam tree summon button)
-Radiant purge: single target (1-2 sec re-use)
-Brilliant purge: mass utility (30-40 sec re-use)
-Talisman cleanse: 1min re-use if i remember correctly
-Disparition: If you are Dark elf

PS: Skelton i have all that dude... Gear/lvl is not an issue here. Besides, your wynn is 92lvl... if you pvp 94+ healer parties you'll feel robed. (roba 3ekoumpwth dld :P )

Last edited by Ninja Proxy; 07-08-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skelton View Post
So far I have no complains from my wynn on pvp. I manage to use my debuffs on time and still kill ppl fast. btw, you should buff with wizard harmony and use magic weapon for pvp. I see many wynns roll with bow + warrior harmony doesn't help a lot unless you using cougars and your target is not moving at all (or you are using final form like i do sometimes and instantly kill ppl but that is if you are a kamael) . When all 3 marks land, combined with high matk and INT you can deliver some powerful dmg on the enemy with mark retriever, but that is as long as you use it. Just put some INT dyes, get a retributer +4 with 300 element and you can reach a lot of m.atk.

Also, marks are not supposed to kill someone by DOT. Exile reuse time is rather quick with wizards harmony, but mass exile is kinda slow i would say, yet used on perfect time, you can stop a healer or even two at same time with good timing.

You wrote that some classes useless, which ones? Wynn Summoner? One of the most powerful classes in game atm and I'm not the only one to confirm this. Healers are healers and they are perfectly fine the way they are if you ask me.

But you also said, some skills are useless against good / auto healers so I guess the problem is not the skills but the players. I don't see the problem here, you want to spam debuffs because healers can clean fast but healers clean fast because all DD target the healers and not you.
Wynn summoner is by far worst Pvp class if something does good in Olympiad doesn't mean it's a good Pvp class Wynn hitting me in Pvp idd nothing but irritating cus I see on screen water fall of 100 damage text yep strong class
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by redmen View Post
Wynn summoner is by far worst Pvp class if something does good in Olympiad doesn't mean it's a good Pvp class Wynn hitting me in Pvp idd nothing but irritating cus I see on screen water fall of 100 damage text yep strong class
The Wynn, who was hitting you was obviously horrible or 5~10 lvls below you. It takes time till wynn realize what weapon to use with which summon. And what harmony is good for them. I still meet wynns lvl 90+ who doesn't know that they have cleanse for their pets... Even if you have your set with 120 elements on all, still a good wynn can kill you. And... nope, not the class is worst PvP one... In wrong hands, it is.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

So, nerf healers to make summoners more overpowered? no thanks .

A good pvp player focus on healers for reasons like that. Beat the healer = no cleanse, simple!
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:33 AM   #13
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

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Originally Posted by LunA10 View Post
So, nerf healers to make summoners more overpowered? no thanks .

A good pvp player focus on healers for reasons like that. Beat the healer = no cleanse, simple!
You're such genius! It's that simple to beat the healer and the 2nd healer will definitely not cleanse/res him for sure i'm sure i can also hit for 10k in that heavy armor seraph on every hit!

I'm with Trenshero, this long fights are getting pretty LONG and eventually they become boring. As long as 1 healer can be resed/brezed, it's another freakin 5-10 minutes to take him down cause there's always 2 of them cleansing every debuff every second, making pt invincible every minute.

Last edited by Yunalesca; 07-09-2012 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

In mass PvP (most time 1 vs 2 parties on naia, rarely fair 1 vs 1), if the tank of the party is good, before level 94 healer can't cleanse ****. A good tank can keep both healers in agro, if he know what the ** he is doing there. The tree cleanse is not that effective though to remove the agro, and there is rare a chance to move asap from agro range in order still to be able to heal your party members (especially those, who are running from healer range). Not all healers are so pro (or using illegal programs) to cleanse in the second when debuff is up. I'm, not 94 yet to confirm the mass cleanse, but i think it has 30 second cool down (it keep up the ability to cant debuff for 7 seconds, so count it 23). There is nothing wrong with that, due to the game HAS CHANGED! Live with that already! Debuffs reuse time is shorter, why not and cleanse to be? Damage is MUCH higher, it is normal we to heal better. Just live with the new game, or leave.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:24 AM   #15
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

From a healer's point of view...

Complains from a wynn about anything just sound so wrong to me. Wynn is almost unbeatable in oly, best solo char, has tonz of debuffs and 4+ summons that deal damage while the summoner is debuffing others in pvp.

Yes, the healer has cleanse. That's why its called a healer and not something else. That cleanse is good but it's very far from overpowered. Tree cleanse is useless because the tree dies even if an elpy jumps on it. The single target cleanse is useless unless you are somehow immune to tank agression. The party cleanse has 30 seconds reuse, which gives around 23 seconds to everyone to freely spam debuffs (because you can really spam them nowadays). In a pve situation, any cleanse is useless against most of mob debuffs.

And another thing... You have a shortage of healers now? Nerf them and you will see what a shortage looks like. Nobody likes to die in the first 10 seconds of a pvp, neither to stand around and do nothing because all your skills are on reuse. I personally never would have returned to this game if the GoD changes hadnt been done.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:32 AM   #16
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariathni View Post
From a healer's point of view...

Complains from a wynn about anything just sound so wrong to me. Wynn is almost unbeatable in oly, best solo char, has tonz of debuffs and 4+ summons that deal damage while the summoner is debuffing others in pvp.

Yes, the healer has cleanse. That's why its called a healer and not something else. That cleanse is good but it's very far from overpowered. Tree cleanse is useless because the tree dies even if an elpy jumps on it. The single target cleanse is useless unless you are somehow immune to tank agression. The party cleanse has 30 seconds reuse, which gives around 23 seconds to everyone to freely spam debuffs (because you can really spam them nowadays). In a pve situation, any cleanse is useless against most of mob debuffs.

And another thing... You have a shortage of healers now? Nerf them and you will see what a shortage looks like. Nobody likes to die in the first 10 seconds of a pvp, neither to stand around and do nothing because all your skills are on reuse. I personally never would have returned to this game if the GoD changes hadnt been done.

Just my 2 cents.
+ 1 to that! Only people who never played healers are wanting it to be nerfed. But when you remove the agro from them in PvP and they are able to attack again, noone is crying!
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:25 AM   #17
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

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Old 07-09-2012, 08:28 AM   #18
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Default Re: Aoere Healer cleanse

btw, I'm healer, and summoner is stupid overpowered, no sympathy here. obviously.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:07 AM   #19
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Default Re: Aeore Healer cleanse

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Originally Posted by pipi View Post
You are OP with title: Aeore Healer cleanse. On your first post you're saying that healers have too much cleanse. YES, you said everything about nerfing healers... The fact that you cant find a constant party, that wants you is not really our problem though. Indeed there are a lot of parties with 2 healers for PvP, but in order to PvP, people are PvE-ing, and they rarely, if not never,going with 2 healers to PvE. On 1 vs 1 PvP healer vs Summoner, if the summoner is GOOD, he wins, due to there is noone to cleanse the cage, and the dmg of healer is not that great to kill your transfer pain pet and you, before you're able to summon a new one, except if the healer is not 5~10 lvls higher than you or have +16++++ weapon etc. And your pets are giving really good dmg.. and they are 3-4 (depends of level). I myself have dual wynn and i see the differences. My opinion: Wynns are good as they are, same for healers.
You are obviously Low lvl... and actually have nothing to say on-topic. Cause you havent even read the post.. all you see from my previous posts is just your class's name:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy View Post
Besides, I've never said anything about nerfing Aoere,
&

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Proxy View Post
Healers have so many cleanse capabilities
If you read carefully, unbiased, you'll see my point, I use facts and real pvp situations as examples, I also provide viable solutions. you do none of the above, you just flame & rant, nothing more.

Btw, I have Constant party, and pve w/ 2 healers is equally good if DDs are strong. example: we only use 1 ball in spezion even w/ 2 healers. so obviously you are wrong.

As far as Pty vs Pty pvp is concerned... Wynn has very long gaps of near 0 dps due to long re-use + servitor pvp penalty, combine that w/ cleanse and wynn lacks any burst dmg...

if you cant understand that then pls dont post.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Aeore Healer cleanse

You are obviously Low lvl... and actually have nothing to say on-topic. Cause you havent even read the post.. all you see from my previous posts is just your class's name:

If you think that 93 on main and 90 on dual is low level, ok. The topic is aeore healer cleanse, you're talking about wynn summoners, not me.

&



If you read carefully, unbiased, you'll see my point, I use facts and real pvp situations as examples, I also provide viable solutions. you do none of the above, you just flame & rant, nothing more.

Btw, I have Constant party, and pve w/ 2 healers is equally good if DDs are strong. example: we only use 1 ball in spezion even w/ 2 healers. so obviously you are wrong.
Why do you cry about wyn than if even with 2 healers, you're doing so good dmg on PvE?

As far as Pty vs Pty pvp is concerned... Wynn has very long gaps of near 0 dps due to long re-use + servitor pvp penalty, combine that w/ cleanse and wynn lacks any burst dmg...
It is a team game. You are not only damage dealer, you're cc too. Communicate more with your mates, use marks, dont allowed the healer to have time to cleanse the other healer, due to the good damage your party is doing, and you'll start winning PvPs...

if you cant understand that then pls dont post.
O yes, i do understand your posts, and commenting them. It is open forum, nothing wrong with that.
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