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Old 10-11-2017, 04:45 PM   #481
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

SleepingPower, in Lineage2 is hard to success. So all players searching ways to make it easier.
Using 3rd software is not allowed. That cheaters must be banned.
Also, players found some ingame tricks to play easier.
It also may annoying you.

I think, closing ways to get adena by fishing, nerfing drops - will lead players to accept new gaming model. Without adena. Just fun playing with free Paulina S80 gear.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:55 PM   #482
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
Hello Everyone,

Producer's note: this is a summary of meeting discussion we had with the Development Team. I want to be clear that any suggestions and changes below are not even in a development phase yet and implementing them could take a while to materialize or may never make it into the game.

After the development team visited this month I had a chance to speak at great lengths in person with Mr. Taeklim Nam about the current status of the game economy and where we feel that improvements can be made.

Mr. Nam recently became the Director of all Lineage II Development and is very interested in making improvements to address user issues in not just Korea but in all overseas regions.

Regarding the changes to fishing, we prepared a presentation on this change specifically and how it made the Fancy Fishing Rod much less useful and fishing now isn't very productive except for when a promotional bait is for sale.

Our suggestion was to look at the rewards in fishing and make them more tied to hunting, such as adding soul shots and hunting bonuses so players can fish while away earning some bonuses and then use those bonuses the next day while exping. We also asked to continue to incorporate the fancy rod into future fishing events so that existing rods maintain usefulness. Alternatively, if the rod was not going to be something used much more in the future to add a refund option for it into the game so players can make investments in other areas.

One of the next topics we discussed at great length is Item Gap, or the issue where players who have spent lots of real money have much better items than players who have not. This is a somewhat difficult issue to address, but we asked them to review adding more kinds of items like 'Shadow Weapons' but for other equipment slots like armor and jewelry. As in these systems can be earned through questing and game play instead of from the store only. These items would not be the same strength as top grade regular items, but would make the gap much smaller.

The next point was about certain items which can only be earned on the L2Store like Brooches, Talisman, T-Shirts and Cloaks we asked to find a way to incorporate these items into earn-able loot in the game, even if it just takes a long time to farm them. The Development Team thinks something like this would be possible, but they are reviewing this for feasibility but they had a similar idea already but weren't sure yet how they might do it.

We discussed in length also about Adena Drops and general loot availability. Right now even using bonuses like drop rate rate runes, the amount of drops is pretty low. We asked that the Development Team to look into boosting drops in 99+ hunting areas as the number of zones to check for bots is small and more manageable for us and it takes a while to reach these levels so bot users have to spend much more time first before they could take advantage of any boosts. The Development Team said that they would look into this and see if it was feasible to add in the future.

We also brought up things like Ninja patches coming in with no warning (like changes to Wynn Summoners and Othell skills), while these kinds of things do not happen a lot the Development Team apologized and will check in their process where improvements can be made.

Overall all of the discussions were very productive and I felt that we were able to have a long dialog back and forth about our positions on these topics and others. We also got a much better understanding on the way the Development Team is thinking and their future plans, so we can better utilize them to make improvements we think will help our users in NCW.

~Thank You.
Thank you Neutron for trying, although concerning the item + Adena drops, I suspect any favorable changes will be made for the players in future.

In Korea, players can play FREE until LvL 84 but the moment their highest level character in a Lineage2 Account becomes 85, they get auto-disconnected and have to BUY the subscription to keep playing.

I've been doing some thinking...

How about we have a similar conditional Free-To-Play? I'd say Free until LvL 95??? The reason why I think LvL95 is the good level to introduce Subscription is simple. LvL1-85 doesn't really reflect the current Lineage2 game with the awakening system.

1. Let the players play for free until LvL 95.
2. Boost the drops a lot for LvL85-95 zones, enough so that players can craft full Twilight sets and Apocalyse weapons.
3. Make everything from Nstore available in the game after LvL 95, i.e. La Vien Rose Jewels, elemental shirts, New Cloaks...etc.

The reason why so many new comers /returners quit lineage2 is mostly due to Pay-To-Win aspect of the game. But when you make those items, let's say Lavien Rose Jewels, available in the game, all of a sudden players will have the illusion of choice. They can either choose to do the long hard work to get those Jewels or they can choose to spend money to accelerate the process. Some people complained and quit Lineage2 when they'd spent $50 and couldn't even make LvL3 jewel. At the moment, spending money is the only option to get Jewels and $50 USD can't even make LvL3 jewel???

You see, you can't avoid such angry accusations with the current Nstore only Lineage2. But if you introduce the subscription with the boosted drops for everything, I am sure you can stop a lot of rage-quits, cuz then players will have the illusion of choice and they only have themselves to blame.

When a new comer/returner plays until LvL 94 enjoying the farming and crafting, they will only want some more cuz they've had so much fun so far! and this is how you introduce the subscription at LvL 95.
Of course, you can still keep Nstore, but as a principle, everything in Nstore should also be farmable in the actual game. Whether you go subscription or not, they are some people who like to get ahead of others faster by spending money, so I think keeping the Nstore for the likes of them will be a good idea too. The way I see it, Nstore = legalized way of cheating, but cheating can only mean something when there is a normal play to begin with. Right now, there is no normal play..only cheating...and it's the only way to play it feels to me.

Last edited by DreamSeeker; 10-12-2017 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:51 AM   #483
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutron View Post
Hello Everyone,

Producer's note: this is a summary of meeting discussion we had with the Development Team. I want to be clear that any suggestions and changes below are not even in a development phase yet and implementing them could take a while to materialize or may never make it into the game.

After the development team visited this month I had a chance to speak at great lengths in person with Mr. Taeklim Nam about the current status of the game economy and where we feel that improvements can be made.

Mr. Nam recently became the Director of all Lineage II Development and is very interested in making improvements to address user issues in not just Korea but in all overseas regions.

Regarding the changes to fishing, we prepared a presentation on this change specifically and how it made the Fancy Fishing Rod much less useful and fishing now isn't very productive except for when a promotional bait is for sale.

Our suggestion was to look at the rewards in fishing and make them more tied to hunting, such as adding soul shots and hunting bonuses so players can fish while away earning some bonuses and then use those bonuses the next day while exping. We also asked to continue to incorporate the fancy rod into future fishing events so that existing rods maintain usefulness. Alternatively, if the rod was not going to be something used much more in the future to add a refund option for it into the game so players can make investments in other areas.

One of the next topics we discussed at great length is Item Gap, or the issue where players who have spent lots of real money have much better items than players who have not. This is a somewhat difficult issue to address, but we asked them to review adding more kinds of items like 'Shadow Weapons' but for other equipment slots like armor and jewelry. As in these systems can be earned through questing and game play instead of from the store only. These items would not be the same strength as top grade regular items, but would make the gap much smaller.

The next point was about certain items which can only be earned on the L2Store like Brooches, Talisman, T-Shirts and Cloaks we asked to find a way to incorporate these items into earn-able loot in the game, even if it just takes a long time to farm them. The Development Team thinks something like this would be possible, but they are reviewing this for feasibility but they had a similar idea already but weren't sure yet how they might do it.

We discussed in length also about Adena Drops and general loot availability. Right now even using bonuses like drop rate rate runes, the amount of drops is pretty low. We asked that the Development Team to look into boosting drops in 99+ hunting areas as the number of zones to check for bots is small and more manageable for us and it takes a while to reach these levels so bot users have to spend much more time first before they could take advantage of any boosts. The Development Team said that they would look into this and see if it was feasible to add in the future.

We also brought up things like Ninja patches coming in with no warning (like changes to Wynn Summoners and Othell skills), while these kinds of things do not happen a lot the Development Team apologized and will check in their process where improvements can be made.

Overall all of the discussions were very productive and I felt that we were able to have a long dialog back and forth about our positions on these topics and others. We also got a much better understanding on the way the Development Team is thinking and their future plans, so we can better utilize them to make improvements we think will help our users in NCW.

~Thank You.
If this was done years ago, the game would've been in a much better state than it is now. But, a step in the right direction nonetheless. Hopefully they deliver on this soon.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:08 AM   #484
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingPower View Post
Server is full. Is impossible to do daily missions because certain zones are full of summoners killing every mob even mob you are killing and damaged it a lot but you don't get mission point.
Its evident that they don't do just daily mission because with killing sped rate they should do it fast and leave. But no - they are always there.
[...]
Step down form your lvl 100+ areas and you will see that server is full.
Normal player who play one or two hours per day can do just instance in town.
I don't agree, I think they are doing it for a daily mission, it jut takes time as they dont use shots and they continue the quest to the max stage (around 1200 mobs or so, depending on the quest, but not all attacked mobs will give them q items as other players hit those mobs too). Those 85-93 daily quests are the only ones which still give some adena, so after the fishing nerf some payers started creating 85+ chars to leave them on macro throughout the day or night.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:06 AM   #485
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by ******* View Post
I don't agree, I think they are doing it for a daily mission, it jut takes time as they dont use shots and they continue the quest to the max stage (around 1200 mobs or so, depending on the quest, but not all attacked mobs will give them q items as other players hit those mobs too). Those 85-93 daily quests are the only ones which still give some adena, so after the fishing nerf some payers started creating 85+ chars to leave them on macro throughout the day or night.
O_o oh well I guess I was lucky to don't have any funds to buy a single fancy fishing rod. I know people that have 3 toons with 3 fancies.
Wow that hurted. Whatever.
Normal people with a normal life with a normal work and a normal social life can play lineage 2 only two hours x day and unless the modify scolls price has raiseid to 1 billion each in the two months I haven't logged in I will do like Yidao to afford the shots to do my dailies. Mithril mines FTW
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:13 AM   #486
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by ******* View Post
I don't agree, I think they are doing it for a daily mission, it jut takes time as they dont use shots and they continue the quest to the max stage (around 1200 mobs or so, depending on the quest, but not all attacked mobs will give them q items as other players hit those mobs too). Those 85-93 daily quests are the only ones which still give some adena, so after the fishing nerf some payers started creating 85+ chars to leave them on macro throughout the day or night.
Those are not player characters on macro but true Adrenaline bots, as you can easily see from their meaningless computer-generated names. They are highly mobile and have a much larger pick-up range than regular characters. Those bots, always the same, have been active since shortly after the Fishing Item Exchange Rate Adjustment of September 6, and of course the Anti-Bot System has spotted them weeks ago. But since for NCWest's business model to work there must be a constant inflation, albeit at a moderate degree, to keep up the demand for L2Store items to be exchanged for botted adena, Neutron is deliberately looking the other way. He has explained in detail here why botting in field hunting grounds is acceptable, while profitable fishing is not:
http://boards.lineage2.com/showthrea...92#post3568692
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:09 PM   #487
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yidao View Post
Those are not player characters on macro but true Adrenaline bots, as you can easily see from their meaningless computer-generated names. They are highly mobile and have a much larger pick-up range than regular characters. Those bots, always the same, have been active since shortly after the Fishing Item Exchange Rate Adjustment of September 6, and of course the Anti-Bot System has spotted them weeks ago. But since for NCWest's business model to work there must be a constant inflation, albeit at a moderate degree, to keep up the demand for L2Store items to be exchanged for botted adena, Neutron is deliberately looking the other way. He has explained in detail here why botting in field hunting grounds is acceptable, while profitable fishing is not:
http://boards.lineage2.com/showthrea...92#post3568692
This is the lesson;
Botting is not only acceptable to NCwest but actually preferable as there is no negative consequence for this behavior, but there is a negative reaction for earning adena using legit means. These means will be found and removed as Conguero has informed us. For evidence we have the absolutism of removing fishing from the game, while when catching a donor with 3rd party software will, in a worst case scenario, yield a ban for a few hours.

@Neutron
1. Can you please inform us officially that Adrenaline is preferable to in game mechanics? This would help boost the popularity of the preferred farming method for NCwest, as well as giving you the perfect response to those of us still ****** about the fancy rod fraud.

2. If for any reason I interrupted NC west's view of this farming platform incorrectly. Can you explain why is it that you had full resource to shut down the fishing, yet seem incapable of continuing the efforts that you began with the launch of GC with regards to botting prevention?

3. Lastly, didn't NC buy out Adrenaline earlier this year?
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:56 PM   #488
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

4. How come the toons promoting RMT sites near in game GKs appeared right after the Fishing was totally killed, but they were gone for months before that?

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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 PM   #489
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

It's simple. Any action taken to limit the amount of adena the RMT folks can get will do two things (1) hurt honest players and (2) make the adena RMT people sell both more valuable and more in demand.

It necessarily follows that the NCSoft folks are either idiots or they are lying to us about the real reason they continue to restrict the ability of honest players to earn adena in game. Since I'm pretty sure they aren't idiots, and since they have a powerful monetary incentive to restrict the ability of people to earn adena without paying real money to NCSoft, I'd guess they are lying to us.

Are there any possibilities I'm missing?
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:01 AM   #490
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderman View Post
It's simple. Any action taken to limit the amount of adena the RMT folks can get will do two things (1) hurt honest players and (2) make the adena RMT people sell both more valuable and more in demand.

It necessarily follows that the NCSoft folks are either idiots or they are lying to us about the real reason they continue to restrict the ability of honest players to earn adena in game. Since I'm pretty sure they aren't idiots, and since they have a powerful monetary incentive to restrict the ability of people to earn adena without paying real money to NCSoft, I'd guess they are lying to us.

Are there any possibilities I'm missing?
Y
1st Austrian monetary inflation 1853 theory is the one Neutron explained and they apply it when it comes to hurt your adena income.
2000 inflation theory, which they apply when it comes to put the money in their pockets, is the one that says "in the short and medium term inflation may be affected by supply and demand pressures in the economy, and influenced by the relative elasticity of wages, prices and interest rate"; translated they sell the items in the L2 store only when they want to to create the higher pressure possible in the demand so that every items's price, involved in the event, will be like a rocket in the sky.
2nd adreanile bot=unlimited amount of boxes. Who ever said that those boxes are only in fairy? Go to blazing, gog and the like.
3rd How many fishing spot are there? Unlimited? No sir.

They pretend that you
- play a korean game without the korean features
- play 200 times more the price that the koreans pay as if was normal to sell a coke in korea for 2 bucks and to sell that very same coke in usa for 200 bucks because you are from usa so you are supposed to be rich
- are scammed and stay in total silence.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:08 AM   #491
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderman View Post
It's simple. Any action taken to limit the amount of adena the RMT folks can get will do two things (1) hurt honest players and (2) make the adena RMT people sell both more valuable and more in demand.

It necessarily follows that the NCSoft folks are either idiots or they are lying to us about the real reason they continue to restrict the ability of honest players to earn adena in game. Since I'm pretty sure they aren't idiots, and since they have a powerful monetary incentive to restrict the ability of people to earn adena without paying real money to NCSoft, I'd guess they are lying to us.

Are there any possibilities I'm missing?
Yes, you seem to assume it's NCw who is selling adena and thus increasing their profits.

HOWEVER, once the infinite adena exploit was uncovered (during Infinite Odyssey) it became rather clear who is really behind it; and the fact that only SOME adena was obtained by in-game means (most of it via exploits like these). It's the same people who run gamecoast. What else could you expect from people like these, anyway.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:04 AM   #492
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Sorry I wasn't clear Devoid. NCSoft has taken actions that limit the amount of adena honest players can earn in game. Their excuse is that they are trying to hurt the RMTs and the honest players are collateral damage. But it is obvious to anyone but an idiot that the actions NCSoft has taken help RMTs rather than hurting them. Since the decision makers are not idiots, it follows that hurting RMTs was not the real reason for their action. The only other reason I can think of is that they want to limit the honest players' ability to raise adena in-game so the honest players will be forced to buy ncoins to compete. What other explanation is there?
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:07 AM   #493
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yidao View Post
Those are not player characters on macro but true Adrenaline bots, as you can easily see from their meaningless computer-generated names. They are highly mobile and have a much larger pick-up range than regular characters.
You're right, I took a closer look, they are too 'smart' for a macro ;f
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:26 PM   #494
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by __SpOO__ View Post
4. How come the toons promoting RMT sites near in game GKs appeared right after the Fishing was totally killed, but they were gone for months before that?

This is not the case, since I came back to the game (around April this year), I've always seen RMT advertising toons in all major towns. There has been no time period where they are not present. In fact when asking why this was allowed in some other thread the explanation, (given by another player), was that since they are simply low level toons, the minute they banned one another one was ready to take it's place so it becomes a cat and mouse game.
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:00 PM   #495
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Going back to fishing and the exchange rate for Elcy.

From what I know the quickest way to obtain Elcy powder ingame in larger quantities is Fishing (you can get 1 powder from a faction daily quest and such, but you'll never get a proper amount this way).

I calculated that with the current exchange rate and the price of baits+shots the actual value of an Elcy Powder is around 3.42kk, so if you need it for yourself and decide to go fishing that's the price you're paying.

It's been quite a while after the fishing nerf, but the price at AH is still 2.050.000 adena (Naia). This doesn't make sense.

Do you guys think people are selling the powders they had in stock from before the nerf, or they found another way of obtaining it cheaper? Am I missing something?
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:35 PM   #496
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Value is not determined by cost of production, but by supply and demand. My guess is that the demand is less than supply, probably because of the current event which is providing a large, temporary supply.
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:50 AM   #497
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by ******* View Post
....

It's been quite a while after the fishing nerf, but the price at AH is still 2.050.000 adena (Naia). This doesn't make sense.

Do you guys think people are selling the powders they had in stock from before the nerf, or they found another way of obtaining it cheaper? Am I missing something?
Look at the Reward List from the Hungry Horse Event its a Misc. Reward that you get very often, each time 10 Elcyum Powders.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:47 AM   #498
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Well, we are here w8ing for some reroll bcs, the explanation used for ncsoft it was not convincing, it obvious they nerfed ridiculously the fishing cuz they are
closing all the loopholes to acquire adena in the game, and making the most p2w 100% dependent on the store to make adena.


It does not matter if some moderator came here and filled us with hope about the future of l2, what matters is that you are killing players NOW and do not listen to us, and I say more, ncsoft, every day that passes the will of honest players to use bot is bigger because of you, and at the moment I'm no longer finding those who use bots guilty of something, but indignant at the decision-making of you NCsoft.
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:16 PM   #499
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderman View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear Devoid. NCSoft has taken actions that limit the amount of adena honest players can earn in game. Their excuse is that they are trying to hurt the RMTs and the honest players are collateral damage. But it is obvious to anyone but an idiot that the actions NCSoft has taken help RMTs rather than hurting them. Since the decision makers are not idiots, it follows that hurting RMTs was not the real reason for their action. The only other reason I can think of is that they want to limit the honest players' ability to raise adena in-game so the honest players will be forced to buy ncoins to compete. What other explanation is there?
You right about this, i realize from the beginning of this trouble. I think they are doing "loss control"... this is the fkg term that i have to apply in my job when the olympus requests, and do you think we had to inform to our customers about this? ahaha.

A decline in profitability may be considered lost, and I think one of the policies that they applied for prevent this; was kill the fishing. Until this point is not bad, Ncsoft need to survive. But...whats is the problem here?. Somewhere in the L2 user agreement must to say "we can do any change without any advicement, regardless of collateral damage we may cause"(sarcastic). Even if u find an other way for do adena legally, who will assure you keep that way in the next future?.
I recomended to low geared people buy fancy rods, why??? because i bought 6 fancy rods and i recovered the investment in 5-6 months... then, 2 weeks after last heine event they killed the fishing.

"honest players" includes subscribed players, donators & hardcore spender of ncoins and finally people who dont spend any dollar/euro.
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:22 PM   #500
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Default Re: Fishing Item Exchange Rate Change

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Originally Posted by ******* View Post
Do you guys think people are selling the powders they had in stock from before the nerf, or they found another way of obtaining it cheaper? Am I missing something?
last event perhaps
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