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Old 11-14-2017, 09:58 AM   #21
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Chucksteak View Post
Please consider this;

1. What determines the amount an item is worth?

Is it the NPC shop price?
Is it something you just made up?
Are you a lemming and just saw it for sale in AH for that much and as such, that's what its worth?
Or does it have something to do with supply and demand.

2. At what rate do the people who need these +10 sets acquire adena?

As burn said, the market is not in sync. Sellers and buyers are not on the same page with pricing.
As mixa said, how long would it take to earn 20b?
If the buyers can earn an ever diminishing amount of adena, trending towards "0" (don't worry its parabolic, you wont actually ever hit 0), how much can sellers charge at any given point in time? (the answer is less than previously, always)

Having 40 some odd toons is insane.

Pricing items based off of an old now outdated economic model is bad practice.

He doesn't articulate very well, but he is sort of on the mark here;



The FLOOR of the market is set by NPC price. When no one is left to buy stuff, or when adena drops are removed 100%, everything will be bought by NPCs.

Even the arbitrary price of 20b to make a +10 set is only dictated by the current cost of acquiring resources in the current economy.
This.
If you actually read Chuck's posts, you may learn something.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:58 AM   #22
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Chucksteak View Post
The FLOOR of the market is set by NPC price. When no one is left to buy stuff, or when adena drops are removed 100%, everything will be bought by NPCs.

Even the arbitrary price of 20b to make a +10 set is only dictated by the current cost of acquiring resources in the current economy.
yeah man, so prices at npc were set by chucksteak instead of ncsoft, i guess delusional seeker is seting npc prices too, right?

please guyz, really???? jesus...........
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:56 AM   #23
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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yeah man, so prices at npc were set by chucksteak instead of ncsoft, i guess delusional seeker is seting npc prices too, right?

please guyz, really???? jesus...........
You can't read, can you?, Chuck said and you even quoted him:

NPC SHOPS SET THE FLOOR PRICE which means that if you have 1 gemstone R and you can sell it to the NPC for 1m, no on in their right mind would sell it for below that to a PC, hence the floor price for that item is 1m. This applies to all items that can be bought and sold by NPC's.

Got it?, what Chuck said is precisely one aspect of what you said: THE SERVER CONTROLS THE MARKET PRICES and this is one of the mechanisms they use to control it. Where the hell did he say that prices at the NPC's are set by the player's market!?

Dude, on top of being by far the biggest troll in the forums you're also dumb... oh no!, again the burgers from your street cart are overcooking!, go flip them before you reply!. Anyway, No need to answer me or quote me, I know your response will be that of an irate 12 yr old, so I am not going to engage with your tantrums, I am just gonna laugh at them.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
From where you poping out ? 20 bil for a +10 dark set ? are you serious ?
Why not giving it for free ?
Actually, even only for EAR it will cost around 7/10b to make a full set +10 (aka 5m each). Then buying success enchant stones, transform some ear to GEAR and BEAR. This mean buying the recipe, lvling one ertheia to transform them, buying / creating some airstones ... Using maphr potions, using nano stew, making a +7 maphr shirt ..

All that invest to make (not for sure) a +10 set. And even with all of that a r99 +10 set will cost to product around 30b minimum. That's are actually sold for 40/45b.

And you want a +10 pvp set for 20b ? ... Seriously dude ... go back to your cave ..
1 ) all the items you mentioned above are provided from the nice events . So no need to craft anything , except the +10 set. 2) go farm 20 bill legit then come out of your cave ! And don’t come tell me you have 6/6 broonches +16 or dragon weapons and all boss jewels , pve cloaks +18 and you farm this 20 bill EASY . We talk about average players who make everything with there cp 7 ppl means they devide all /7.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #25
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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1 ) all the items you mentioned above are provided from the nice events . So no need to craft anything , except the +10 set. 2) go farm 20 bill legit then come out of your cave ! And don’t come tell me you have 6/6 broonches +16 or dragon weapons and all boss jewels , pve cloaks +18 and you farm this 20 bill EASY . We talk about average players who make everything with there cp 7 ppl means they devide all /7.
20B are really easy to make especially when you have this fishing event (10k bait = 15b minimum) !
And no i don't have all boss jewels, i don't have this new cloack at all, i don't have 6 broches, i don't have +16 ++ weapon

+10 pve set, +12 bloody weapon, lvl 3 or 4 jewelery, soul baium, soul aq, soul frint, blessed antharas, special pvp earing stun.

I don't spend 1k$ per months in game, but when i can 50/60$ in offgamers website to buy high game cards when i reach the bigest card price, and i stock ncoins until i can buy items and sell them for a good price in adena. So yes it's legit, and very very very very very easy.

But i didn't get all my items with $$, i did that to get around 20/30b, then i invest it to OE items and selling them, then buy more mats to OE more, etc etc etc. SO YES IT IS LEGIT !

Go learn how to play dude if you can't do that by yourself ! Just buy a brain, and learn how to use game mechanics !
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:50 AM   #26
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Chucksteak View Post
Please consider this;

Having 40 some odd toons is insane.
No is not, many old players have that amount of toons and even more.
Many ppl, no lifers, have 3-4 pc and a lot of time to spare.

Now on topic...
The point is you cant match them, speaking in economic terms is like a small business compete with a multinational company...guess who s winning?

While you need to buy ingredients they got them free by farming...now, when prices go down they still have profit while you lost bilions adena and cry on forum the market is broken.

Guess what, next 2-3 months will be x10 worst. December is half dead with or without Salvation, January is complete dead...things start to move a bit from half of February...
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

Most of you missed the point of this thread, the problem is not the actual price drop, that might even be good for some, the issue here is the lack of adena for the casual players, that might lead them to quitting the game. That's the real issue!
Item prices drop happened in the past, they are not new thing in L2, what is a new thing is the casual players not having a single way to get adena. (Before there were some quests/specific drops that could give them a some low but steady income, they all been nerfed now)

I get it, i'm from a big clan so i'm the enemy on everything... try to stop looking at that and try to understand what we are discussing in this thread... it's an actual serious issue.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:00 PM   #28
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
20B are really easy to make especially when you have this fishing event (10k bait = 15b minimum) !
Just lol, 200 euro for 15 bil adena ....
So your expectation for a set+++++ is min 600 euro? Are you insane?


Ps:yes, euro its not a mistake...ppl outside US pay in euro on 1:1 parity.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
20B are really easy to make especially when you have this fishing event (10k bait = 15b minimum) !
And no i don't have all boss jewels, i don't have this new cloack at all, i don't have 6 broches, i don't have +16 ++ weapon

+10 pve set, +12 bloody weapon, lvl 3 or 4 jewelery, soul baium, soul aq, soul frint, blessed antharas, special pvp earing stun.

I don't spend 1k$ per months in game, but when i can 50/60$ in offgamers website to buy high game cards when i reach the bigest card price, and i stock ncoins until i can buy items and sell them for a good price in adena. So yes it's legit, and very very very very very easy.

But i didn't get all my items with $$, i did that to get around 20/30b, then i invest it to OE items and selling them, then buy more mats to OE more, etc etc etc. SO YES IT IS LEGIT !

Go learn how to play dude if you can't do that by yourself ! Just buy a brain, and learn how to use game mechanics !
So keep up with your plan buy nc coins and sell them . Nc coin market is stable . Why you are here in this topic? This is about adena market not nc coin market .
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by BurnCycle View Post
Most of you missed the point of this thread, the problem is not the actual price drop, that might even be good for some, the issue here is the lack of adena for the casual players, that might lead them to quitting the game. That's the real issue!
Item prices drop happened in the past, they are not new thing in L2, what is a new thing is the casual players not having a single way to get adena. (Before there were some quests/specific drops that could give them a some low but steady income, they all been nerfed now)

I get it, i'm from a big clan so i'm the enemy on everything... try to stop looking at that and try to understand what we are discussing in this thread... it's an actual serious issue.
Actually BurnCycle casual paying $$$ ppl have all the means to play the game...pve mood.
Agree, casual non paying players are kinda stuck. But who care?
They are just fresh meat for "whales" to kill during sieges, oly and coc and then brag on forum with vids how good, how strong they are, how they made them carpet. If they quit mby you start pvp "whale" vs "whale" .

Btw, have you thought what drain definitively adena from market?
I can think at pve and pvp sets and weapons, enchanting skils, buying suplies from npc, paying for clan hall, paying Auction items...
But none of that drain so much adena to influence the market so hard.

More?
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:29 PM   #31
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Pleistoros View Post
Just lol, 200 euro for 15 bil adena ....
So your expectation for a set+++++ is min 600 euro? Are you insane?

Ps:yes, euro its not a mistake...ppl outside US pay in euro on 1:1 parity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKKm View Post
So keep up with your plan buy nc coins and sell them . Nc coin market is stable . Why you are here in this topic? This is about adena market not nc coin market .
If you plan making your adena income only from ncoin you are only dumb a.ss.
Did i said that my icome come from ncoins ?

I sad that i made my first investisment with ncoins to get around 20/30b ! Learn what means words ! It tooks me around 1 year and half to get this amount of adena in first time !

After i could buy items only with buying mats, crafting, OE items and selling them. So i'm exactly in the correct topic !

Pleistoros, if you wanna compare $ and €, ok let's do it. 200€ for 15b ? Are you serious ? 12k ncoins = 10k baits, this mean 8k+8k = 170,20€ from offgamers(202.26$). This mean 16 k ncoins - 12k ncoins = 4k ncoins left, this mean you took 15b and you still have 4k ncoins, then you can still buy a 4k bait packs, or better, buy a divine pack for 4k ncoins. From this you can selling the giant dyes, venir talisman, adventurer items, the abudance pack, rare accessory pack, and even the 30 days tatoo (if i'm not wrong), then you take back at least, 5/6B more.
This mean 170€ = 15+5 = 20b(minimum, if you are smart and wait the correct period, you can get way more). Go to the black market seller, and you will find something like 200/250€ for 20b.

Now that you learned from your stupidity. With this 20B you got. You can start buying items to OE a r99 parts, then selling it, and take profit. Then going to next part, and keep increasing your profit.

Now if you wanna buy everything using ncoins, i'm happy for you, this mean your are an harabic prince, or a rich guy. I'm happy for you, but i'm not. So yes, i'm indeed exactly in the correct topic since my only income adena are coming from OE / selling items system.

Hard to do it indeed ? Just learn how to use game mecanics !
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Pleistoros View Post
Actually BurnCycle casual paying $$$ ppl have all the means to play the game...pve mood.
Agree, casual non paying players are kinda stuck. But who care?
They are just fresh meat for "whales" to kill during sieges, oly and coc and then brag on forum with vids how good, how strong they are, how they made them carpet. If they quit mby you start pvp "whale" vs "whale" .

Btw, have you thought what drain definitively adena from market?
I can think at pve and pvp sets and weapons, enchanting skils, buying suplies from npc, paying for clan hall, paying Auction items...
But none of that drain so much adena to influence the market so hard.

More?
You should care cause of the domino effect, if a big chunk on those non paying players leave, another big chunk of paying ones will leave too following their friends/clans to whatever is next. And that will cause a significantly population reduction that will lead to other players quitting too, and in the end you will be the one complaining about because there won't be enough players for the game to be enjoyable.

Plus, if there's no lower level tie, who will you sell those things you get from the events that you are mentioning? NPC sell? check some of the items prices on the npc that you usual get on events, you might find some nasty surprises.

About the drain issue you mentioned, adena will always be drained by game mechanics. That's why you need an healthy supply of adena.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:41 PM   #33
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
I
You can start buying items to OE a r99 parts, then selling it, and take profit. Then going to next part, and keep increasing your profit.

Hard to do it indeed ? Just learn how to use game mecanics !
First pls care how you talk, i didnt ofend you.
Second, you seem to do not understand...how can I explain you better...
You use the red part to oe items, that mean cost in adena.
The "whale" I was talking about got them for free aka not pay aka no cost.
Both of you want to sell...guess who can sell with profit after a discount fight.

For next months your strategy to make adena by buy ingredients and oe will not function properly...you need to find another "thing".

Now, pls be kind to contribute at "what drain adena definitively from market".
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by Pleistoros View Post
First pls care how you talk, i didnt ofend you.
Second, you seem to do not understand...how can I explain you better...
You use the red part to oe items, that mean cost in adena.
The "whale" I was talking about got them for free aka not pay aka no cost.
Both of you want to sell...guess who can sell with profit after a discount fight.

For next months your strategy to make adena by buy ingredients and oe will not function properly...you need to find another "thing".

Now, pls be kind to contribute at "what drain adena definitively from market".
That kind of way to OE items to selling them drain adena. To only 1 guy, yourself. If you buy items from AH / players sellers in town you give them some adena to buy more items, and probably buy the item you just OE.

So yes it's cost 10x or 20x the price that it would cost if you farming everything by yourself with your 80 differents toons. But in your way, you are the only one to get adena. And no one can selling items in the end.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Originally Posted by BurnCycle View Post
You should care cause of the domino effect, if a big chunk on those non paying players leave, another big chunk of paying ones will leave too following their friends/clans to whatever is next. And that will cause a significantly population reduction that will lead to other players quitting too, and in the end you will be the one complaining about because there won't be enough players for the game to be enjoyable.

Plus, if there's no lower level tie, who will you sell those things you get from the events that you are mentioning? NPC sell? check some of the items prices on the npc that you usual get on events, you might find some nasty surprises.

About the drain issue you mentioned, adena will always be drained by game mechanics. That's why you need an healthy supply of adena.
You missunderstud but you are right, i dont care about them. I say again...casual non payers, they are non factors by quantity and exist only to stimulate ego of whales(like, whohoo..I hit him with 2 mil damage..Im strong ). Im sure non lifers who are also non payers know how to make some adena in game.

I will be happy if 90% of ppl will quit, mby that way NcSoft will be forced to act like they care.
Between 2 of us, what to do in game as casual non spenders or non spenders? No acces in important farm areas like Gainak, No dragons, no field Rb, No siege, No Oly, No CoC...just few instances in town and beautiful architecture (I know some ******** who will say who hold them to compete, pls dont!).
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:05 PM   #36
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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That kind of way to OE items to selling them drain adena. To only 1 guy, yourself. If you buy items from AH / players sellers in town you give them some adena to buy more items, and probably buy the item you just OE.

So yes it's cost 10x or 20x the price that it would cost if you farming everything by yourself with your 80 differents toons. But in your way, you are the only one to get adena. And no one can selling items in the end.
Now that you understud im happy.
I need adena to buy other things that I cant farm, im not the only one who get adena.

Back to drain thing, I said complety from game, aka like when you buy from npc things...Gemstone r from mamon-I found another one.
I have a feeling that some ppl drain and hold adena from the market....
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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You missunderstud but you are right, i dont care about them. I say again...casual non payers, they are non factors by quantity and exist only to stimulate ego of whales(like, whohoo..I hit him with 2 mil damage..Im strong ). Im sure non lifers who are also non payers know how to make some adena in game.

I will be happy if 90% of ppl will quit, mby that way NcSoft will be forced to act like they care.
Between 2 of us, what to do in game as casual non spenders or non spenders? No acces in important farm areas like Gainak, No dragons, no field Rb, No siege, No Oly, No CoC...just few instances in town and beautiful architecture (I know some ******** who will say who hold them to compete, pls dont!).
Lineage 2 always was a game where you could completely go PVE. There are clans dedicated to that, farming epic raids, the new instances, old instances, grinding, etc... You can ask, what do they gain about it? They get XP, and, if the game was working as it supposed to be, they would gain items/adena from those places. There are players that enjoy that.
In some cases there are wars between small clans, that means PVP between them for the right of farming in some specific place.

Those players shouldn't be allowed to play at NCSoft? And if we go your way and get those 90% of the player base gone, who will buy those items you get from the L2 paying events?

you mentioned maybe then ncsoft will be forced to "care", but care about what if you apparently are in favor of a paying way only? You got me confused there.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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Now that you understud im happy.
I need adena to buy other things that I cant farm, im not the only one who get adena.

Back to drain thing, I said complety from game, aka like when you buy from npc things...Gemstone r from mamon-I found another one.
I have a feeling that some ppl drain and hold adena from the market....
For sure some ppl are stocking adena, in first it's black market sellers, they should have something like 100b in stock i guess. But after, it's players.

Especially on Freya, the end games items aka new cloack +15++ are sold for 200b +, then lvl 5 jewelery for the same amount of adena.

So ppl that can get some adena from market, stock them until 200/250b and no one invest anymore.

The problem come mainly from the price of l2store items.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

If ppl are not happy with those instances they can quit, we are not their parents to babysitting them.Thats why I said i dont care.
I help them with some knowledge and some guidance...but thats all.

I, for example, use l2store for my own purpose...im not selling ncoins or items from l2store. If I have a surplus of something i use on alt or sell to npc.

NcSoft should do he's part...to manage the game and balance things in a manner that everybody enjoy the game..they dont do it atm.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:58 PM   #40
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Default Re: @Neutron - Game Economy is collapsing

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If ppl are not happy with those instances they can quit, we are not their parents to babysitting them.Thats why I said i dont care.
I help them with some knowledge and some guidance...but thats all.

I, for example, use l2store for my own purpose...im not selling ncoins or items from l2store. If I have a surplus of something i use on alt or sell to npc.

NcSoft should do he's part...to manage the game and balance things in a manner that everybody enjoy the game..they dont do it atm.
So you agree there's an issue, you just don't care about it!. If that's the case why you posting in here implying there's no issue at all?

I'm still waiting for a answer from Neutron...
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