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View Poll Results: What change should be made to restore balance and uniqueness among the Awakening classes?
Diversify through race-specific traits for the Awakening class 95 8.20%
Diversify by choosing what 3rd class skills to keep per the Awakening class chosen 132 11.40%
Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes 872 75.30%
Other (Please post a reply with a clear explanation.) 59 5.09%
Voters: 1158. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-24-2012, 08:30 AM   #181
PrincessOfPeace
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I probably already said this in an older reply to this thread, but I voted on the second option.


My reasons for doing so, are as following.


1. Today, you just need to find out which awakened class you want, and then select the class that gets from 1 to 85 the fastest way (ISS is warcryer/OL because they drain MP when killing).

2. I have a Warsmith that is a Tyrr, but after i made it 85, I really didn't see any point in leveling it, since the market is flooded with TW/Seraph/Eternal from daily instances. The only reason to have a crafter, is to make what little adena you can on crafting/selling R grade shots to the players that dont just make a new level 40 character to get 200k free SS / 100k Bsps...
- Means that crafters will be obsolete and nobody wants to level them higher than 85. both classes (warsmith and bounty hunter) are also often just leveled to mid A grade for the quadruple weight limit, and then only used as sale shops. most often, people just do the 1st class transfer and then use them, since they get double weight at level 20 or so.

3. A tank is always nice to have, and I made a paladin because I feel that it is a better choice than the other tanks (more party minded than the other tanks). After awakening it, I saw that I should just have taken the DE tank, since it levels alot faster... There is absolutely no difference what so ever. Well, there is a difference, but it is only cosmetic. Human, dark elf or light elf...

4. Mages were once something you should fear. today, all you need to do, is pack earth, fire and wind resistance and you have nothing to fear.
- Back in the time when I started playing (C2), all classes were in perfect balance. Ofcourse there were some minor things that was made better in C3, but after that, not so much.
- A major problem with the mage class, is the necromancer. if you were split between making a nuker or a summoner, you made a necro. superior in all ways. kick *** summons 40+/76+, nuke (spike), transfer pain and vampiric claw. Could level solo against all kind of mobs. high resist physical ment you would nuke them and high resist magic would mean the use of your summon, and I still remember using cursed man to to kill mobs in hot springs with 3 or 4 hits...


I could go on and on about all 34 classes, but that would be one long post, and I am sure that most people who once enjoyed the differences on the classes, will agree with me, when I say that the game should let you start at level 85, since the only contribution you can do to a clan (or anything else, for that matter) is level up inside an academy for clan reputation.

Splitting them up into all 34 classes, might be a task that is going to ruin the game, before it is set properly. it could also mean that people will play specific classes as dwarves more often, for their specialized skilltree...

But to be honest, I lean more to the idea of added a few 3rd class specific skills to make your class unique, rather than removing the entire awakening path.

Once could also wish for 3rd class skills only, but you would still learn all the current passive awaken skills + 3 active awaken skills.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:05 AM   #182
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

34 classes was, in my opinion, one of the better features of Lineage 2, every race and every class had some pros and some cons (well some class had more cons..) and all those differences made the game more enjoiable. now with just 8 classes lot of competition has lost.

So, i hope we ll come back to 34 classes; a suggest, try to introduce for the 4th class more skill connected with the race characteristics ( i mean ghost sentinel with lot of skill with dark power or vampire bonuses)

or in other way dev can:
add more race unique skills (more passive or maybe some active) and make 24 classes, 3 class brach (with unique skills and role) for every awakened class

Last edited by Vstyle; 09-24-2012 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #183
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

From my point of view, you guys forgot the basics of this game. I know that the game ws in need of BIG changes to keep up with other games. But you forgot 1 simple fact about the classes. A tank is a tank and a healer is a healer. This was the only fact that I hoped you wont change it, but you've done it after all. It is very annoying to see for example an enchanter to keep up in dmg and life pts with a tank. The story about class diversification is just stupid. Excuse me but if you want diversification between classes do this:

1. Remove all custom things like stone of destiny and dual class change
2. Bring back the old 34 classes
3. Keep the skills of Paladin for example only for Paladin and so on.

Shortly ... you should bring back the old structure of the classes in the game, and keep like 50% of the new structure of the classes.

I saw you guys were talking about pride of each player had for his class. Well ... Some years ago on a private server, I was 1 of the best Duelists ever existed on the server... Now there is no pride for any class you pick cuz in a PVP party or Epic RB party you no longer have in need some of the classes. The game is not made to play solo, is made for friends and so on.

Take a look at this, within the old days, when valakas for example was a really pleasure to do it: http://imageshack.us/a/img23/4728/shot00362m.jpg

And now? how many people you need to do the raid ? Like less than half of that comand channel I guess.

I hope you got my idea about the class diversification structure and game change. There where players that had a love for the suport classes like healer/recharger/dancer/singer etc etc. Now all can be what they want, when they want, so the entuziasm for the game is lost day by day.

Only 1 simple fact. Like 95% of the people that was in that ally, stoped playing the game since GoD lanched due to the classs structure changes and custom things like stone of destiny/Element T-shirts/ Jedi items look and so on.

We all know that you want the best gameplay for us, but please do not forget from where you started.

I'd rather play Lineage II - Prelude -> Interlude than GoD
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:26 AM   #184
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Default Re: Change the Course of Lineage II - Feedback Polls

without a doubt vote on the 34 classes option!!! im pretty much sure it would revamp the gameplay again because when people atm are pretty much choosing race by the looks and not by the diversaty!!! GoD isnt actually a bad update in my opinion or i wouldn't be playing it, but L2 took a course that originally wasnt ment to be, when u are a human, u will get some advantages and some incovinients, when you are a orc, goes pretty much the same deal! once i remember trying the human tank, and then tried the DE tank, and i was so amazed by the diference on the classes that had to choose one of em... now i just choose the skin (imo its very wrong because i wont get any diversaty!)... same goes to the all other races... it was so cool to watch for instants the way a warcryer buffed, and then a prophet... now its just not that good... its all the same... and besides, i dont really like the way the races completly lost the identity! hate the fact that my dwarf has the same skills that any other tank and knowing i really cant get a char to my own playing style, and know that a party will pretty much always have the same configuration give or take it, makes me really confuse! back in the old days people would choose a doomcryer for a meelee pt and a dominator for and AOE mage pt! L2 was ment to be a game where u could choose alot of ways... now u can only choose 8 its really bad, besides giving oly a "old revamp" where u would get lots of classes to fight with would really balance the game a lil more! and plz, i play L2 not only because i like the game but because i like the looks! the graphics are the best there out there for a MMORPG so yeah... diversaty + graphics + gameplay is the way to go!!

Last edited by Sace; 09-24-2012 at 04:35 PM. Reason: copied from Change the Course thread
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:07 AM   #185
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I vote for Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes couse i want the old style of play and 74% of votes have choosen right.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:33 AM   #186
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I'm all for diversify. This new 8 class system makes no sense. I mean, l2 always was about big number of classes to chose from, since there's few ways to customize your character (no skill trees, limited stat changes and elemental options) so you could at least choose from bug number of classes for one that best fits your desired play-style. I have nothing against changes, but this wasn't fair one. While we gained 8 absolutely new classes, we lost 35 old ones and it isn't good, since that shows there's absolutely no plans for this game and development of it is totally unpredictable. Seriously, just look at that. We have 8 new classes that has absolutely nothing in common with former 35, which is a complete absurd. Why to create so many classes in first place then? I mean, there are things that cannot be changed so drastically like this. I understand developers motives for doing so, but it was done really wrong. And about that pool i kinda have mixed feelings. While it proves that there's no set direction for l2, it's good that players actually can by some degree affect it.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:13 PM   #187
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I would prefer that each separate class 2 classes to get to lvl 95/99

example:

Yul Archer: You can choose from ->

Archer Wizard: An archer does not need arrows, magic Shoot dates. Use robe set , is fast but low P.Def.

Great Archer: Same as yul but with some improvements. An archer with physical attacks. Use Ligth set.


It would be a total of 16 classes. I think that 32 is too many.
As long as people can choose what they want to be.

The other options seem to change much the game. Stop being lineage2
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #188
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

"Divide the 8 current Awakening classes back into 34 classes".


In order to accomplish this you would have to change the preset race stats/skills system . Currently we have 8 classes, but with the Stone of Destiny we have 48 possible results with the 6 races. Some of which are greatly favored in battle over its alternative. If we were to add the new 34 class system we would have 6 races with 204 possible combinations.

I propose assigning race skills/stats to the class you choose.

Rough example:
Eva's Sigel : 80str 64dex 80con , Sigel + eva's skills, (elf race skills)
Phoenix Sigel : 90str 52dex 82con , Sigel + phoenix skills, (human race skills)
Hell Sigel: 90str 52dex 82con , Sigel + hell skills, (human race skills)
ect...

Assigning the race skills/stats to the classes would eliminate hybrids and create a true 34 class system.

If this isn't done we will have major balance issues with the 204 possible characters.

Last edited by HeroOfTheDay; 09-24-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:15 PM   #189
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Lightbulb Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I dont agree by dividing into 34 classes. Why? Because the game would have only 2 class tranfer. How? Because at your first class tranfer you have 2 or 3 options, then at your 2nd class tranfer you have 2 options, but then at your 3rd and 4th you have 1 option only so is like and extanded 2nd class tranfer. You choose your path until lvl 40 but then you will have only 1 path.
So I prefer if instead of having 1 class option for each class you can have 3 or 4 to decide your finall path. If not your finall decition will be at lvl 40 and then is always the same class but with more things.

PD: Sry for my bad english
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #190
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I voted other. Specifically I am voting for NO change. Yes, I miss the diversity of the L2 I started playing 5 years ago, but that game no longer exists and I don't think it ever will.

There is a conflict in intent between diversity and balance. Foolishly people want both and are disappointed when they get neither. Making a game perfectly balanced is easy. Consider Checkers and Chess. 1 class, all players start at max level with maxed gear and skills. No diversity at all. It's only a question of player skill, leadership for groups, communication within the parties. This change would get rid of 99% of current players and all the bots and adena spammers, so it's not totally negative to the game.

Diversification. Well maybe. Before there were certain classes which were needed at certain levels for parties. All others go away. Getting those toons in those classes to the level they were desired was the problem of the fool who was trying to do that class. There were 34 classes but most were not wanted. The change of party size from 9 to 7 eliminated the possibility of afk leveling any undesirable classes. You solo or duo or bot or play with a friend if you can. I expect the return of 34 classes at 4th CC to be a disappointment. Will wait and see.

Last edited by Sace; 09-24-2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: off-topic comments removed, put into copy of post in Change the Course thread
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:22 PM   #191
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I think this game need it's own Stats Point System and allow the player to build they own stats set to their classes
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:38 PM   #192
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I use a translator because my English is not very good

I chose the option 3er : Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
Because?
I think it is very simple to me and to all the players L2 or most of us like it was before 34 classes, 34 heroes, all classes with their advantages and disadvantages, they were all different, with different skilles.
also to take more classes there are more variety of game, and also help balance the game, for example: the Tyrr Warrior expert in aoe , warriors who are coming from Dreadnought or Titan , in the archers always clear differed elves and dark elves by ATK. spd and p.critical, also was the same in the daggers
I also believe that more open landscape game in the sense 1v1 or 1vsALL as before
because said it? pvp is always now party vs party , before it was totally different, were PVPS of 1v3 or 2v5 and you could win , now if you do that you have more chances to lose than to win and that as I take a little spirit to the game, now they are all unwilling to fight, nothing can surprise the classes now, because they are 8 and know you can do each.
However if they were 34, always come out with something new as it was before.

In short if they return to the 34 classes the game more fun, everyone will have more chances to be a hero and l2 will return to do what was the best game I met in my life

Thanks for reading this carefully Razor
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:04 AM   #193
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I wish the 34 class based system was brought back, it was probably the main feature that got me hooked to L2.
I realize that it is a colossal task to perfectly balance that many classes but think about how great it was a couple years ago to have for example 3 magi of 3 different races completely different from one another based on elements those magi relied upon, or even a few more year back when, I believe, there were a couple skills the magi had which needed the seeds of the others to be cast. Or the need to create a dwarf to gather material, or get the spoiler on subclass, but just a dwarf could craft, or just an orc could be dominator and so on.
Indeed some classes were less needed than others in groups, but there were and still are specific hunting grounds for archetypes(archers, magi, etc)

Bringing back the 34 classes is certainly the most complex way to go, but since you added it as an option you certainly have some ideas how to make it work and in time you certainly will as you did it before. I can only imagine how grand it could be to have all those different classes back again with their different skills, spells and buffs, different roles to play in a small group or in a large epic raid.

Now the only thing we need back are the Necropolises and the Catacombs, everyones favorite hunting grounds :P
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:14 AM   #194
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

Option 3: Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:28 AM   #195
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

I am not going to comment on the class Diversification at all because i like the option i voted on the poll.

Last edited by Sace; 09-25-2012 at 12:49 PM. Reason: off-topic comments removed; they remain in the copied post in Change the Course thread
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:14 PM   #196
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Default Diversify, Karma, PK, Do it!

The poll clearly shows the voice of the Lineage 2 people. Bring back the 34 classes and allow that diversity to be present. There isn't much more to say on that matter.

Last edited by Sace; 09-25-2012 at 12:49 PM. Reason: off-topic comments removed; they remain in the copied post in Change the Course thread
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:59 PM   #197
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

Other.

Initially, I was going to answer with Option 3. Then I realized that it won't give me my beloved Eva's Saint back.

What skills do I miss the most on my healer? It's Trance, Mana Burn, Turn Undead, Wind Shackle. All were highly enchanted, all were 2nd class skills (so, the Option 2 is obviously not an option to bring them back), and all were adding the fun of playing my class. Then all were made useless by the changes in the game design.

Let's look at Trance, for example:

A good PvE skill for crowd-controlling multiple threats in a single-target party... what? a single-target party? Do they really exist anymore? And even if they do, do they need crowd control?

Or a good PvE skill to interrupt mobs' skills... what? You say you can recognize, target and interrupt mobs' skills when they are cast in all that AoE mess, with lots of flashy animations and huge adds obstructing your targets? Then you must be a pr0, nolifer or/and a bot!

The diversity of classes is lost not just because of the lack of diversifying skills. It's the generic diversity of use cases, roles, scenarios in the game what is lacking. The game was "streamlined", the content was dumbified, the diversity of party actions was cut, the classes were hammered down into the holes of their very limited fixed party role slots. In High Five you could see a moderately equipped robe user serving (at the same time) as a puller, a crowd controller, a debuffer, an occasional DD and an occasional (but the only) healer for a single-target party in an endgame location (LoA), and still this concept is completely alien to the whole "Awakened" world of GoD. You would think that Awakening should have allowed you to experience a richer gameplay on your awakened toon, wouldn't you? You would be wrong

Now, if the developers want to bring back the diversity of the classes, just adding some different small variations of some "awakened" or even "3rd class" skills to different classes won't work. The only result would be that most classes would become unwelcome into constant parties. If you really want to diversify the game, you need to diversify the content first. In PvE part of the game it means: think out the solo locations, the duo locations, the locations for parties with 4-5 players, 7 players, 9 players, single-target locations, AoE locations, locations with benefits to defensive setups, locations with benefits to offensive setups, locations for soaking damage, locations for crowd control, locations for mob avoidance etc.; then envision the party setups and skillsets beneficial for such diversity of gameplay, distribute the skills fairly among the classes... and don't forget to balance the locations for the amount of XP and resources they give (except for a limited amount of locations that give better XP and need to be contested; still don't forget to diversify them). And then you will need to balance PvP... tough luck.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:20 PM   #198
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

Good day. Despite a bit of work that will cause them, I will present my opinion.

The habilidadse the version I liked best were the Goddess of Destrution "combos" (in my language) - those skills that appear when the target is lying on the ground or being levitated. I think that is where one must invest That is: modernity of the Goddess and the essence of Lineage II!

It is the following:

- Maintain eight heros is priority

- Diversify the classes and races maintaining a relationship with the third job, example:

* Awakening Tyrr Warrior Class / Race: Male Kamael: Doombringer / when the "combo" is activated it creates the possibility of using the skill Mass Disarm (Disarms nearby enemies for 5 seconds)

You can put different skills, thus will not create imbalance if players choose the same abilities permanent, because the abilities are used randomly (or chosen) during the fight.

Classes that not contain the "combo" may contain Replacing current skills, example: Iss enchanter / Assault Rush skill instead of inflicting stun, inflict something That makes it Possible to use the "combo" ... after him (combo) is on, you can use the third job skills while is active.

With that we value the expertise of each third job.

* It will be great to have a Doombringer Tyrr warrior in your party in a siege for example, Mass Disarm leave many without weapons! This generates a pride in tyrr, and still have connection with the third job.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #199
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

keep in mind that character balance is the opposite of diversification...

i'm in favor of diversification but i think that "Diversify by dividing the Awakened classes back into 34 classes" that seems the most correct way to do this, but some people haven't choose their character's class pre-awaken, for example all people that have choosen a class change by stone of destiny, in which class of pre-awaken system they where will be placed?

i think the 8 awaken class are good with some deep diversification...

some ways can be, adding some powerful skill PvP/PvE that depends by your previous class, and some by the race, like current ones but more decisive when you choose a new character to build (for example: before GoD, Clarity for EE or Empower for SE)

for further diversification maybe, some stat points could be obtained at certain level, for raise STR, DEX, CON, etc. that we can add where we want

first time i saw 8 class i though that party capacity was increased to 8...this can be another good change (party solidarity buff make more sense)

What do you think about that?
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:21 PM   #200
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Default Re: Class Diversification Poll: September 19 September 26, 2012

i started playing L2 during C3 when having a 70+ toon was considered leet, i agree with many here, game has become easier then it once was and now everyone can have an 85+ toon easy, but thats a good thing, the main merit of L2 has always been the endgame pvp/sieges i know thats what made me return, changing the easiness of leveling will only make leveling a subclass a lot harder for people, and discourage many from playing.

having 34 unique classes is what gave lineage 2 its edge, but il agree in the case of healers and buffers creating 1 class for all of them was a good idea, as it used to be a pain to have to find a certain class for a certain buff.
now with the dps classes the variety was awesome, with the awakening class changes many of these dps classes lost their uniqueness all melee non rogues became tyrr warriors, which in my opinion made the fact that whether you decided to play a duelist or a dreadnought meant nothing as as soon as they hit 85 they would have the same skills, same with hell knights and phoenix knights, the onyl way to solve this would be to have a few skills that carried over from each original class in the awakening process, making each class somewhat unique after that point, this could be done with all classes.

now for the issue with only having 8 hero classes compared with 34 before, you can now compete in olympiad from level 75 - 99, why not have a split and have 2 levels of heroes set the olympiad requirement to 85 and then have ranges from 85-92 & 93 - 99, there will then be 2 hero slots for each class but the olympiad rewards would be different depending on the bracket the player is hero of
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