Tyrant and PP?

[GenericForumName]

Still new, almost 40. When I hit 40 I'm gonna level up a buffer to box then eventually hand it to a friend to play. Which support class is the best for a tyrant? No WC.

PS: Someone said I should be running my tyrant in heavy armor while I level.. True/false?

[DarkAngel]

wc is the best lol and probally the most fun to play for your friend

stay plated leather until you hit 61

[Oldfart]

WCs are good. But, a Tyrant is basically a Light Armor class, and I have been told that as such, they need a healer. In this case, I'm thinking an SE might actually be better overall, even though you won't get all of the buffs you would with a WC.

[LofL]

WC or SE. Its also doable with a PP but it would get hard.

[ShinHawk]

WC or SE is definitely the way to go, VR makes a tyrant a beast when leveling, you'll miss out on prophet buffs such as haste/zerk/btb/bts, but you can get haste in potions and the others arent really needed, if you want both haste and VR i'd say do the warcryer, but be warned WC's dont have heals, CoL sucks for healing when you need it.

[Mulch]

Tyrants don't need heals!

WC is a better buffer out of WC and SE. Though if you can make a level 30 SE on that same account, a PP is more bang for the buck, VR 1 will help a long way as well. Just have to be arsed to log in and out your 2nd account every 20 minutes.


(Elixirs for emergencies, pots for that extra juice)

[zzzZZZzzz]

I did prophet+tyrant from 40 to 75. Prophet gives the best damage dealing buffs and also some ok elemental resistances. There are areas where you will take too much damage, but if you stick to herb-dropping areas you will have no issues whatsoever with HP.

Holy weapon, invigor, and a tallum heavy set made soloing forest of the dead very, very simple and quite fast for exp.

So in my opinion pp+tyrant is gold.

[DarkAngel]

im sorry but any tyrant that uses heavy armor in anything short of maybe the olympiad is not someone you wanna take advice from

Tyrants excell at catacomb style xp. A wc/tyrant should be able to duo anywhere. Add a bd to this group and you have one of the fastest lvling groups. You will not need heals on your tyrant, they simply vr everything back. And up till lvl 68 you wont need to worry about hp management. After 68 if you wanna experiment with bison at 30% it might be worth finding a bishop or ee to group with.

Remember if you go WC you wont be able to rez your self with anything short of brez/scroll. However Wc is by far the best choice esp if your friend is playing the buffer active. SE are boring as hell to play active. Some people like playing a battle prophet however most end up quiting and the buffer becomes boxed.

Tyrant- risk haste [censored] equiv fist weapon +10 till lvl 61 with plated leather. (cant afford +10 then just get best you can, + the risk sa is good practice for bison in 20 lvls)

At 61 get dc light.
From here get focus bloody tornado until your 68 minimum. If you start to pvp you might wanna switch to dragon grinders health, however you can use focus tornado's to 75 np.
S-grade best sa is again health esp for pvp.

WC have him use bw robes and get him a focus dagger (kris)
Bloody orchid focus till 75.
Give him a [censored] acumen for buffing.


to the person above, your open field hunting and your using heavy. I bet your enjoying that loss of runspeed/accuracy arent you

[Mulch]

Tallum heavy give more DPS than Plated leather, no reason not to use it. +10 speed aint that much ^^;

In Prelude/C1 most Tyrants used heavy, because it far outweighted the benefits of using light.

[zzzZZZzzz]

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im sorry but any tyrant that uses heavy armor in anything short of maybe the olympiad is not someone you wanna take advice from

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You probably never even tried it. Do you even understand the reason why you'd want to be wearing a tallum set at forest of the dead? Well let's see, tallum light or tallum heavy....wow, tough decision right there.

I'm not going to say DC light is worse than tallum heavy in general. It's not. But as far as pvm solo goes, tallum heavy is much more effective because of what it does at forest of the dead - the best solo area available to level 77.

[Mulch]

Indeed, he's an ignorant fool ^^

Tallum Heavy rocks :>

[MalineII]

;( Those bleed nukes hurt like hell. I <3 Invigor there.

[DarkAngel]

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Tallum heavy give more DPS than Plated leather, no reason not to use it. +10 speed aint that much ^^;

In Prelude/C1 most Tyrants used heavy, because it far outweighted the benefits of using light.

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he has access to invigor because he has a prophet. the bleed resist on tallum is not worth upgrading/investing 80 mill as your main armor esp one you probally will be pvping in since he wont be able to afford multiple armor sets for quite some time.

Sure if you have excess money and can afford to buy an extra a-grade set just for one xp area, yea sure get tallum heavy for FOD. I agree. However if he using this set for pvp, raids, and xp outside of just that one spot, heavy armor is most def not the way to go. Both DC light/ maj light make better choices until you can afford drac.

also your analogy of c1/prelude dont hold. A) there was maybe 5 tyrants in prelude/c1 that made it past lvl 60. B) all light armor classes were better off in heavy after they nerfed evasion in beta. Even today pre-B-grade light armor classes are argueably better in heavy because they simply dont evade enough to justify the p.def difference.

[DarkAngel]

best endgame setup for tyrant is +5 con- 5 dex drac light and health sa btw. Oh drac bow doesnt hurt for mass pvp, esp in bison

[zzzZZZzzz]

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Tallum heavy give more DPS than Plated leather, no reason not to use it. +10 speed aint that much ^^;

In Prelude/C1 most Tyrants used heavy, because it far outweighted the benefits of using light.

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he has access to invigor because he has a prophet. the bleed resist on tallum is not worth upgrading/investing 80 mill as your main armor esp one you probally will be pvping in since he wont be able to afford multiple armor sets for quite some time.

Sure if you have excess money and can afford to buy an extra a-grade set just for one xp area, yea sure get tallum heavy for FOD. I agree. However if he using this set for pvp, raids, and xp outside of just that one spot, heavy armor is most def not the way to go. Both DC light/ maj light make better choices until you can afford drac.

also your analogy of c1/prelude dont hold. A) there was maybe 5 tyrants in prelude/c1 that made it past lvl 60. B) all light armor classes were better off in heavy after they nerfed evasion in beta. Even today pre-B-grade light armor classes are argueably better in heavy because they simply dont evade enough to justify the p.def difference.

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Not really. I pvp in tallum heavy and have little to no problem with it. 10 run speed isn't that big. With or without that 10 run speed, you still have to use wolf or rabbit to even get in range. So let me rephrase it - 10 run speed means a lot more to a nuker, archer or dagger class than it does to a tyrant.

Saying you need light armor for a raid boss is like.....what? Do you really need 3 accuracy to hit something that seems to never dodge? Do you need 10 run speed to run after something that almost never moves? Why use light armor for raids?

And ditto on exping outside of fotd. I've actively used light armor for pvming and determined that I would rather have the extra 4% atk speed than a little more accuracy and run speed. I can generally take agro when I'm tanking just with force blaster and I dont lose it. With someone else tanking I almost always keep up because they have to do the whole pulling/luring thing or they're a slow human knight with no real speed anyway. I haven't really had any problem with having to run around much in soloing. When I do forest of the dead, the respawn is really nice and I often end up just running right into clumps of monsters without any real concern for HP.

In actuality, people who assume that since you get mastery in a specific type of equipment, you are required to use it, are the ones who aren't worth taking advice from. The damage output of tallum is in fact higher than any of the light armors and damage output plays a factor across a wider spectrum of lineage 2 than 10 run speed. If you think 3 accuracy is really that relevant on a class whose main weapon has a huge bonus to accuracy and whose main source of pvp damage doesn't depend on accuracy at all, ok you go ahead and think that. The only light armor even worth considering above tallum is DC light (and at S grade, Draconic).

I don't really fault people for using DC light. It's a great armor. Nothing wrong with using it. But I am faulting you because you initiated the conversation by making an inflammatory remark on something you're just trolling over. It's ok to use non-mastery weapons and armor as long as there is a good reasoning behind it. With tallum, there ~is~ good reasoning behind it. So lay off. I know what I'm doing. I'm pretty sure I've got a hell of a lot more experience with my class than you.

Invigor from a prophet provides a small resistance to bleed attacks. With only invigor and no other resistance skills, I was prone to be bled and also nuked for 150-250 in unsealed majestic. I had no noticeable resistance to poison, which lasts ages and takes out more than bleed ever could. With tallum and invigor combined, those same monsters nuked me for 30-40 a hit. In forest of the dead it is extremely common to be getting nuked by several bone monsters at once. Therefore it's foolish to simply dismiss a 40%+80% resistance if forest of the dead is taken into consideration.

Far more on topic, the OP is asking whether it's good or not to use a prophet, or if he should be using a different buffer. There isn't a pre-lvl 78 buffer in the game who can provide the dps a prophet can. Given holy weapon, berserker spirit and if it can be leveled to 58+, elemental resistance buffs, prophet is the optimal buffer for a tyrant for both pvp and pvm.

Also herbs are based on a % of your max HP/MP. The higher your hp or mp are, the more that gets restored. With btb and bts, herbs are put to greater effect. The point in this paragraph is not to say it's better than having VR because ~generally~ it's not - but to say VR is less relevant because it's not really necessary.

Now here's an even bigger importance - a little totem known as "Bison". What's screwy about bison is you need to be at 60% or lower HP. In order to use the best dps output possible for tyrant, you need to be at 30% or lower. Prophets freely provide btb as one of their functions. With a health SA dragon grinders and btb 4, I can safely pull off 30% bison at a little over 2500 HP. Without I'm stuck with 60% because bisoning at 30% is too difficult to retain with VR. By relying on herbs instead and I can pick & choose when I'm healed. It can also be done with a btb SA on a weapon but that means slowed buffing and less dps due to 2 paragraphs up ^.

For pvp, prophet is the better single person buffer by far. They've got the nuker resistance spells, btb/bts, greater might and basically of the fundamentals important to a tyrant.

Ah yeah, also Blood Tornadoes really aren't the way to go. I'm very certain I put out better dps with Dragon Grinders/Health than with BTs. Why? Bison. It's a very difficult to retain totem if you don't have any way to automatically drop yourself to below 60%. You could just use a conversion weapon to drop yourself to 60% but...in practice, there are many reasons why this doesn't work very well. Healers will group heal you above, VR if you take it will raise you up too high in HP too fast, or because you didn't take VR your HP actually drop too fast as soon as you steal agro. It's much more balanced and reliable to just use a health SA and by doing so, now have a way to drop your HP to 48% and be able to take VR + consistently use Bison totem. DGs are better in pvp too because normal hit damage is less relevant than your P.Atk. because that actually gets factored into your skill damage.

-Nyo

[Mulch]

I'd like to add that Imperial Crusader is also a great S-grade armor for Tyrants when fighting certain classes, like Glads, daggers and other Tyrants.

[DarkAngel]

imp cru if you can afford it is much better for daggers/glads/tyrants or any melee class therefore in an olympiad fight. However when giving advice to a lvl 40 tryant in which armor he should save up for on his journey to lvl 78, i doubt you would honestly recommend going heavy armor the whole way.


To zzzz your whole post is nothing more then about about FOD. I already agreed with you that if you can afford to buy one armor set just for a specific xp area then yes tallum heavy is the best armor for FOD hunting.

However Focus bloody torandos as i said are the best weapon to get at 61. I said once you get bison at 68 you might want to consider switching to dragon grinders for heatlh esp if you plan to pvp. I love your whole rant about how I included raiding in my post. I wasnt specifically saying that tallum heavy is worse for raiding however if this player can only wear 1 set of armor from 61-75, tallum isnt the way to go if he wants to mass pvp, and xp anywhere and maximize his ability. First of all tyrants dont need more attack speed. The 4% difference between dc light and tallum heavy is not worth the - 10 run speed, - accuracy, - evasion, -4% p.attack (dc light bonus). Your going to want VR even with bison unless your hunting in spots where pots drop. If you plan on duoing/trio catacombs/pagans/ it its an abs must. Btw staying under 60% hp isn't nearly as hard as you describe it with vr, just takes some skill.

WC is by far the safer choice for xping for you and your friend. WC is a much more active fun class then a prophet if he plays it live. With a wc/tyrant duo you have the basis covered to start any group. Add bd you have one of the best trio in game. When you get to pagans you guys will make the best xp in game. Prophet isnt a horirble choice, its actually the 2nd best, however you will be restricted where you can go/do

[That]

[ QUOTE ]
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Tallum heavy give more DPS than Plated leather, no reason not to use it. +10 speed aint that much ^^;

In Prelude/C1 most Tyrants used heavy, because it far outweighted the benefits of using light.

[/ QUOTE ]

he has access to invigor because he has a prophet. the bleed resist on tallum is not worth upgrading/investing 80 mill as your main armor esp one you probally will be pvping in since he wont be able to afford multiple armor sets for quite some time.

Sure if you have excess money and can afford to buy an extra a-grade set just for one xp area, yea sure get tallum heavy for FOD. I agree. However if he using this set for pvp, raids, and xp outside of just that one spot, heavy armor is most def not the way to go. Both DC light/ maj light make better choices until you can afford drac.

also your analogy of c1/prelude dont hold. A) there was maybe 5 tyrants in prelude/c1 that made it past lvl 60. B) all light armor classes were better off in heavy after they nerfed evasion in beta. Even today pre-B-grade light armor classes are argueably better in heavy because they simply dont evade enough to justify the p.def difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. I pvp in tallum heavy and have little to no problem with it. 10 run speed isn't that big. With or without that 10 run speed, you still have to use wolf or rabbit to even get in range. So let me rephrase it - 10 run speed means a lot more to a nuker, archer or dagger class than it does to a tyrant.

Saying you need light armor for a raid boss is like.....what? Do you really need 3 accuracy to hit something that seems to never dodge? Do you need 10 run speed to run after something that almost never moves? Why use light armor for raids?

And ditto on exping outside of fotd. I've actively used light armor for pvming and determined that I would rather have the extra 4% atk speed than a little more accuracy and run speed. I can generally take agro when I'm tanking just with force blaster and I dont lose it. With someone else tanking I almost always keep up because they have to do the whole pulling/luring thing or they're a slow human knight with no real speed anyway. I haven't really had any problem with having to run around much in soloing. When I do forest of the dead, the respawn is really nice and I often end up just running right into clumps of monsters without any real concern for HP.

In actuality, people who assume that since you get mastery in a specific type of equipment, you are required to use it, are the ones who aren't worth taking advice from. The damage output of tallum is in fact higher than any of the light armors and damage output plays a factor across a wider spectrum of lineage 2 than 10 run speed. If you think 3 accuracy is really that relevant on a class whose main weapon has a huge bonus to accuracy and whose main source of pvp damage doesn't depend on accuracy at all, ok you go ahead and think that. The only light armor even worth considering above tallum is DC light (and at S grade, Draconic).

I don't really fault people for using DC light. It's a great armor. Nothing wrong with using it. But I am faulting you because you initiated the conversation by making an inflammatory remark on something you're just trolling over. It's ok to use non-mastery weapons and armor as long as there is a good reasoning behind it. With tallum, there ~is~ good reasoning behind it. So lay off. I know what I'm doing. I'm pretty sure I've got a hell of a lot more experience with my class than you.

Invigor from a prophet provides a small resistance to bleed attacks. With only invigor and no other resistance skills, I was prone to be bled and also nuked for 150-250 in unsealed majestic. I had no noticeable resistance to poison, which lasts ages and takes out more than bleed ever could. With tallum and invigor combined, those same monsters nuked me for 30-40 a hit. In forest of the dead it is extremely common to be getting nuked by several bone monsters at once. Therefore it's foolish to simply dismiss a 40%+80% resistance if forest of the dead is taken into consideration.

Far more on topic, the OP is asking whether it's good or not to use a prophet, or if he should be using a different buffer. There isn't a pre-lvl 78 buffer in the game who can provide the dps a prophet can. Given holy weapon, berserker spirit and if it can be leveled to 58+, elemental resistance buffs, prophet is the optimal buffer for a tyrant for both pvp and pvm.

Also herbs are based on a % of your max HP/MP. The higher your hp or mp are, the more that gets restored. With btb and bts, herbs are put to greater effect. The point in this paragraph is not to say it's better than having VR because ~generally~ it's not - but to say VR is less relevant because it's not really necessary.

Now here's an even bigger importance - a little totem known as "Bison". What's screwy about bison is you need to be at 60% or lower HP. In order to use the best dps output possible for tyrant, you need to be at 30% or lower. Prophets freely provide btb as one of their functions. With a health SA dragon grinders and btb 4, I can safely pull off 30% bison at a little over 2500 HP. Without I'm stuck with 60% because bisoning at 30% is too difficult to retain with VR. By relying on herbs instead and I can pick & choose when I'm healed. It can also be done with a btb SA on a weapon but that means slowed buffing and less dps due to 2 paragraphs up ^.

For pvp, prophet is the better single person buffer by far. They've got the nuker resistance spells, btb/bts, greater might and basically of the fundamentals important to a tyrant.

Ah yeah, also Blood Tornadoes really aren't the way to go. I'm very certain I put out better dps with Dragon Grinders/Health than with BTs. Why? Bison. It's a very difficult to retain totem if you don't have any way to automatically drop yourself to below 60%. You could just use a conversion weapon to drop yourself to 60% but...in practice, there are many reasons why this doesn't work very well. Healers will group heal you above, VR if you take it will raise you up too high in HP too fast, or because you didn't take VR your HP actually drop too fast as soon as you steal agro. It's much more balanced and reliable to just use a health SA and by doing so, now have a way to drop your HP to 48% and be able to take VR + consistently use Bison totem. DGs are better in pvp too because normal hit damage is less relevant than your P.Atk. because that actually gets factored into your skill damage.

-Nyo

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What if the guy cannot pve in FOD for any length of time thereby removing FOD as a valid xp option? Same end result or no? The reason I ask is that you seem to be pretty fixated on that spot.

[GenericForumName]

Not to mention I'm barely almost 40. 77 is quite a ways off. So .. No SE eh? I noticed they have VR pre 40. I doubt I will take this char over 35-40 for buffs. Then when the account gets taken over by my bud he'll probably be grouping while Im soloing. So look at it as a quick boost to 52.

[zzzZZZzzz]

That post isn't fully about forest of the dead. I said quite a bit of stuff that has no real relation to that area. Don't skim it and it's pretty easy to see. And yeah I am fixated on that spot since I can nearly double the exp there that I can get anywhere else. DarkAngel all you did was butcher my post by claiming it was all about one thing when it wasn't. Therefore I have no need to say anything else.