Today's Lineage2 and the Dark panther

[Dafool]

Greetings to whom it may concern,

I believe that it is time to have the pvp damage reduction that was previously placed on the dark panther to be taken off and update the panther’s stats for today’s Lineage2

I understand why servitor damage was lowered in the first place, at that time the necro's summon was extremely over powered so something had to be done. The problem however is that that damage reduction affected classes like the Hell knight which turned our offensive tank role into a defensive one, but without the heals and other defensive benefits the other human tank the Phoenix Knights gets.

The low physical and magic defense that the panther currently has makes it too easy to be killed in all forms of combat. Any damage dealing class in the high 70's with full support class buffs can kill the servitor in 1 to 2 hits very easily. I believe the panther was designed well for the previous chronicles of Lineage2, but due to the lack of keeping its abilities current with the damage increases made by newer weapons, elemental attributes and buffs it cannot compete with today’s lineage2. What needs to be done in my opinion is either update its stats or provide the Hell knight with a newer improved version of the dark panther at say level 79 like Magnus the unicorn which the elemental summoner class gets.

In summery my class the Hell knight relies very heavily on the use of our servitor for all aspects of the game. With the current pvp based damage reduction and the lack of acceptable p.def and m.def among other stats Hell knights cannot play the offensive role as originally intended by the game designers. My honest opinion with these things in mind is that I’d be better off leveling a Phoenix knight with a pet wolf on the side, at least then I’d be a tank with the defensive ability and still have an offensive side as intended for the Hell Knight.

[populus]

/disagree
because if you look at you char + panther without buffs, it's a strong combo

with buffs should mean you also have a healer, if you don't that that's your problem

a panther is a DD... and just like other DDs they have weak defenses, if your healer doesn't want to heal the panther well... tough luck.

[bel]

/agree with nothing to do for panther

Man, if I were DARK Avenger - I'd have been lucky enough to kill almost everyone if the game! So...to hell your Panther!

[Nanashi_Naomhan]

panther thread

i think the general consensus in the thread was that dorfs need a huge boost and DA can go screw themselves :P

[DorkAvenger]

[ QUOTE ]
Greetings to whom it may concern,

I believe that it is time to have the pvp damage reduction that was previously placed on the dark panther to be taken off and update the panther’s stats for today’s Lineage2

I understand why servitor damage was lowered in the first place, at that time the necro's summon was extremely over powered so something had to be done. The problem however is that that damage reduction affected classes like the Hell knight which turned our offensive tank role into a defensive one, but without the heals and other defensive benefits the other human tank the Phoenix Knights gets.

The low physical and magic defense that the panther currently has makes it too easy to be killed in all forms of combat. Any damage dealing class in the high 70's with full support class buffs can kill the servitor in 1 to 2 hits very easily. I believe the panther was designed well for the previous chronicles of Lineage2, but due to the lack of keeping its abilities current with the damage increases made by newer weapons, elemental attributes and buffs it cannot compete with today’s lineage2. What needs to be done in my opinion is either update its stats or provide the Hell knight with a newer improved version of the dark panther at say level 79 like Magnus the unicorn which the elemental summoner class gets.

In summery my class the Hell knight relies very heavily on the use of our servitor for all aspects of the game. With the current pvp based damage reduction and the lack of acceptable p.def and m.def among other stats Hell knights cannot play the offensive role as originally intended by the game designers. My honest opinion with these things in mind is that I’d be better off leveling a Phoenix knight with a pet wolf on the side, at least then I’d be a tank with the defensive ability and still have an offensive side as intended for the Hell Knight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you mean and you're right. Those that objecting you probably never play a DA before. SK can heal in gracia final, Phoenix Knight can summon Phoenix and they already have Heal? WTF. and So far I don't see anything for HK in gracia. HK and the panther is suppose to be their combo to pve and pvp. but over time the panther stats is always the same, recently maybe a 15% hp boost? how is that going to help if they never get skills, and speed? in pvp and group pvp, panther is hardly a factor. and people hardly need it.

HK panther supposed to be able to evolve over time from update to update of L2, i am not talking about drastic update that go hand in hand with pure summoner class. I thought everyone say HK is a offensive tank. and it always been lacking at that. ncsoft did try to boost tank but failed miserably in the past update. they did added hate and changed the time and power. thats is too general for tank.

back then panther is good but since they implemented cp pot. panther is completely useless in pvp. slow speed, slow attack speed, low crit rate. poor pdef and mdef. thats pretty much a two shots for nukers and archer, and dagger.

[DorkAvenger]

[ QUOTE ]
panther thread

i think the general consensus in the thread was that dorfs need a huge boost and DA can go screw themselves :P

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahha can i do ur golem?

[bel]

OXAOXOAXOAOXAOXAX +1!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dafool]

ya i definatly agree with dorkavenger, you guys first of all have to be a Hell Knight to understand what the problem is here.

Good comment concerning thehealer not doing his job by healing the panther, the problem with that logic however is the darn thing will die in 1 to 2 shots very easily, most of the time the healer can't react fast enough and honestly if its going to die that easily is it even worth it?

Also on the comment about the panther being a DD thus having low p.def, also another great comment but actual DDs have a HECk of alot more pdef and mdef compared to my panther, also last i checked elemental attributes can't be applied to the panther so that means DD's have that much more on my panther.

You also have to remember that the panther's pvp damange was drastically reduced, so not only is it a servitor that does little damage it also dies very easily, how is that balanced? I also don't understand why the PK is getting a phoenix summon... essentially they will be the damage dealing tank with all the defensive benifits including the ability to heal its own summon.

[AshleyHunter]

Ever Heard of Hate? try using it.

Also panther has lot more P attack then my DD. In fact the only reason your panther P defense not good as player DD's is it has no armor.

Even a Wolf costly Armor don't = to a players are. It's a Summons not a player they not meant 2 have lot p defense.

[Krissa]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem however is that that damage reduction affected classes like the Hell knight which turned our offensive tank role into a defensive one, but without the heals and other defensive benefits the other human tank the Phoenix Knights gets.
....
What needs to be done in my opinion is either update its stats or provide the Hell knight with a newer improved version of the dark panther at say level 79 like Magnus the unicorn which the elemental summoner class gets.

[/ QUOTE ]
Instead of that "defensive" Party UD thing, which you are currently getting at 79 for being not a summoner, but a tank?

[KittySlayer]

Fun Fact: The damage that a panther does to a player rather than an npc is reduced by 1/2.

thats just fyi for anyone that didn't know what the pvp reduction is. But anyways if you want an unbiased opinion from an actual Hell Knight i'd say the panther is still good in pve because of it's high attack even though the reuse rate on hate is now 8 seconds and 40 seconds for hate aura which makes it a lot harder to keep it alive in tough leveling spots. I admit that hell knights are already good enough in this game based on my experience on pvp, pve, and olmpiad. In olympiad the only equally equipped and equally skilled class that can always defeat us is the elemental summoner which is pretty good considering all the classes we can easily beat. The problem is that the panther is no longer what it used to be. The biggest point made was that with the new introduction of elemental stones that can double every player's attack, and the gracia final update coming out that allows the max elemental rate to go from 150 to 300 possibly tripling a players attack the panther has become obsolete. I think that the solution is as easy as transferring the element of a player's weapon to the panther just like they did with regular summons. If you want to make it hard on the Hell Knight I think it would be really cool to require Hell Knights to equip their weapons with only dark stones if they want to share the element with their panther.

On a side (more biased) note i hope to Shillen that the phoenix summon isn't equal to or greater than the Dark Panther. They can already beat HK's and all the classes an HK can beat in olympiad they don't need a boost like that lvl 83 or not. And I didn't see the heal that SK's get that your talkin about but that combined with the aoe touch of death they get at 81 is starting to piss me off as well.

[KnightOfDarkness]

[ QUOTE ]
Ever Heard of Hate? try using it.

Also panther has lot more P attack then my DD. In fact the only reason your panther P defense not good as player DD's is it has no armor.

Even a Wolf costly Armor don't = to a players are it's a Summons not a player they not meant 2 have lot p defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ashley with detect weakness: beast and a fully charged sonic blaster, you can oneshot my panther. Quicker than hate can even take effect fast enough to cancel you.

w/o soulshots its a different story but...


and i knew PK were getting a pheonix summon, it was bound to happen. upgraded to Death Panther FTW

[__Terry__]

lol cry a river DAs... hell on emore thread about phanter?... why dont you stop crying ?

Easy when its on the other classes and bothering when with yours no?

[Dafool]

It’s nice that you bring something very constructive to the table terry
/sarcasm ^______^

I won't pretend that the panther is the only problem in the game, I’m sure there are many more. The only reason I’m sure this post keeps coming up is due to the fact that many Hell knights as well as other players in the community see a problem.

Another thing you have to consider is why we care so much about getting the panther fixed. Most of the other Hell knight exclusive skills we get never land because the land rates and damage are based of M.atk, which we have very little of. Give those skills to a necro player and I guarantee they would do what they were designed to do in the first place, it’s just too bad we don’t get boasts in our m atk like nukers do. The useless skills with brief descriptions are as follows:

Corpse plague- this skill is designed to cast an area of effect poison, the problem with this skill is that you need a dead monster or servitor (doesn’t work on dead players so useless in mass pvp), and the poison’s land rate is based off M atk which we have very little of so it never lands.

Horror- this skill is designed to make another player flee, this skill currently works on all monsters and players. The problem yet again with this skill is that it is m. atk based and never lands. I did a test with a fellow hell knight, and when fully buffed including empower when trying to fear another player with full buffs with out mental shield, 20/20 times it did not land.

Life scavenge- This is essentially the Hell knight’s healing skill, which you need a dead monster or servitor to cast it on. The problem with this skill is there are never enough dead monsters around during a siege + the heal itself only gives back 200-300 hp and that’s if the monster is within your level range, i.e. a monster 10 levels below you would give nothing. This skill is also useless in olympiad since there are no dead monsters with the exception of the summons of the other player.

Life Drain- Basically a nuke that gives back hp, yet again also m. atk based. Not only is the % of hp given back from the nuke very low, the damage the nuke does itself since its based of M.atk is very little.

So as you can see Hell knights cannot rely on most of the skills that make us Hell knights in the first place, sure we get party UD and shield stun, but are those any different from our human tank counter part the paladin? They get those same skills. The Dark Panther is the only Hell knight exclusive skill that has served us very well in the past and keeps us from being paladins without heals.

Each chronicle this relationship becomes more and more diminished with the increase in player damage output due to things like attribute stones or even better weapons that come out, the panther’s stats were defiantly not designed with the thought of S-80 focus bows with 300 elemental attributes on them. So in my opinion fix the panther or at least make those other skills I listed above more potent, is it so much to ask that our Class do what it is supposed to be doing?

[Dafool]

Another comment to add to terry's post, i noticed that you play a TK, a very good tank class and does very well in olympiad these days. Your definatly not biased with your opions on other tanks... You get a cubic (which cannot be killed), which heals you randomly for amounts of around 500 hp i believe. i bet if your cubics could take damage you'd be complaining just a bit yourself :P. without those cubics what are you?

[__Terry__]

Yeah the cubic heal for maybe 400~500 at max lvl , any dd can take off in 2 his 1 critcal or whatever, the other 2 simple dont worth the cost in cystals. DA is the best tanker for pvp ever, look arround and see how many TKs have on each server. You can summon how many panthers you need to kill some one, i can summon how many cubics i want for? 500 heal twice in a pvp? list all the skills a tk have and see how usefull they are. And you wanna really know why all my sarcasm? give a search on the forum for every TK thread that we ask for a FIX and you will see all DA saying for us to shutt up and re-roll. Now its my time, you are complainign without a good reason.

[Dafool]

You over estimate the panther, it’s not like I can just summon a new one as soon as the old one is dead. The reuse rate itself is 2 minutes, and it takes about 15 to 20 seconds to actually cast the skill that brings it out. Not to mention since the panther is just like any monster or player and needs buffs, the newly summoned panther is without buffs and essentially useless. This doesn’t hurt it as bad in the Olympiad so I’ll give you that, but that horrible recast time makes it really hard to summon a 2nd or a 3rd and etc… during an Olympiad match because many classes can interrupt the cast with just a couple hits or a single stun.

I appreciate the compliment about HK being the best pvp tank… but yet again you give us too much credit for the current time, that may have so in the past but not with given current and future rising conditions. I would easily say that TKs and PKs are rising up to being the best pvp tanks. PK might even be the best tank now because they get angelic icon and touch of life and soon even a phoenix summon, then your class just having touch of life, magical mirror (not sure if it is fixed yet?), and at least something that heals you. On phoenix server Tks have gotten up to the 300s in points for Olympiad just doing open matches, sadly I cannot claim to be able to perform even half that good.

I’m sorry that there are little kids on the boards who call them selves hell knights that demonstrate the behavior you described to me. But to be frank two wrongs do not make a right, and so far even when arguing with you I’ve kept a fair level of respect toward you and the other people whom disagree with me. So I’m sorry you feel the way you do due to how you’ve been treated in the past, but that’s not what I’m here to post about. I’d be a liar if I said I even completely understood your class, but like I said before, I’m sure there are many problems with other classes in our game, let’s just focus getting NCsoft on the ball with improving them ok?

[KnightOfDarkness]

Ignore Terry he is just a sucky TK that thinks his class sucks but for some reason some TK's kick butt and have no complaints

But um Yea

+4wit -4int, as you said our mattk is terrible so whats the worth

now you have faster summon, faster heal

add BSPS, acu3, zerk2,dance etc. to that, you have a fast summon
a fast heal, a fast drain, quicker reuse

add empower, msytic, you have a more powerful drain, better hp per heal, and you have a use for horror with better mattk and much faster cast speed,

hamstring-garbage don't think about using it,

if you want to slow, forget it, go for a complete stop

---schakle--melee skill 2nd highest base strength= good

shield stun-your bread and butter skill

Hate= you are a DA not a paladin, a paladin's hate is to protect his party, a DA's hate is to protect his panther.

Dark Panther=your ace up the sleeve. Keep him protected at all times as this is your biggest income of damage

Panther's weaknesses are= are all high damaged ranged classes, gladiator using beast weakness, these will be the hardest to protect from


everyone else, you hate hate to keep their attention, you have shield stun-best stun in the freakin game keep them immoble, you have shackle, keep them from running.

also shield stun, that is where you can start your combos

as you know all stuns break faster with inflicted melee damage

but magic is different

you can stun+heal
stun+drain
stun+horror+shackle
stun+shackle+UD+temporary beat down chaining root and stun to keep your target close enough to whack away while basically near invincible.

A combo that I like

shackle + Bow

it is an archers dream to be able to root and shoot from a distance

Only tanks and Overlords can attain this dream right

Dryad root is a joke

however this doesn't work agaisn't those with Nightmare anything on.

Nonetheless having a bow on your person (on your shotcut bar) is a very nice thing

Now with CT2 you have a battle mode Vanguard

You can Vanguard+ panther=lots of damage

this is only good vs close ranged enemies, long range enemies will eat you and your panther for lunch as you have no ranged protection.

However agains't close range, you hate and you and your panther kill them as quickly as possible.

Like a vanguard equip i have are +10kesh kesh and tallum heavy. its a common gladiator setup and it works nicely especially with help from your panther. You turn into a beast however like i said, you turn into easy prey for nukers, archers, anyone who can kite you basically.


TIP never send your panther out ahead of you, it is a glass cannon, without you there it will get 1-3shotted, unless your fighting like...a tank or a dwarf. People believe its a good way of chasing those who are running, NO 8/10 chances are they are trying to isolate you from your panther so they can put a huge dent in your attack power. ALWAYS keep your panther at your side. Keep your panthers actions on your shortcut bar, if anything /pet attack and /stop

Also if you can, let your panther have buffs, and have defensive buffs, greater shield>greater might. You want it to deal damage, but you want it alive more so because it hits hard w/ or w/o buffs increasing its attack.

As a tank your weakness is Nukers, your Big daddy master is a Necromancer, Necromancers own you, you are meddling in the dark arts, they control the dark arts, they will eat you for lunch. You are a string with your needle attached, they are a rocket launcher protected by a decayed yet tough brick wall.

but yea nukers are the scissors your paper, the rock to your scissors, the paper to your rock.

the mdef doesn't matter, Nukers are killed by burst damage, that isn't you sorry.

Your are better agaisn't daggers and archers and are w/e with warrior types.

a known fact to tanks, the fact that you get the least benefit to soul shots will put you at a disadvantage to warrior types. which is why you must be a smart player to win, you use soul shots and blessed spirit shots, melee and magic use them both. use them wisely. but remember you arent a soulbreaker so don't get cocky with the magic.

but basically when it comes down to it, its you who determines how good you are at playing a tank. so HAVE FUN WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

[DorkAvenger]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah the cubic heal for maybe 400~500 at max lvl , any dd can take off in 2 his 1 critcal or whatever, the other 2 simple dont worth the cost in cystals. DA is the best tanker for pvp ever, look arround and see how many TKs have on each server. You can summon how many panthers you need to kill some one, i can summon how many cubics i want for? 500 heal twice in a pvp? list all the skills a tk have and see how usefull they are. And you wanna really know why all my sarcasm? give a search on the forum for every TK thread that we ask for a FIX and you will see all DA saying for us to shutt up and re-roll. Now its my time, you are complainign without a good reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

if i don't remember wrong, i did read a thread about TK but your suggestions was too extreme to give you? our HK panther suggestion is justifying and it hold true for the past years.

[DorkAvenger]

[ QUOTE ]
Ignore Terry he is just a sucky TK that thinks his class sucks but for some reason some TK's kick butt and have no complaints

But um Yea

+4wit -4int, as you said our mattk is terrible so whats the worth

now you have faster summon, faster heal

add BSPS, acu3, zerk2,dance etc. to that, you have a fast summon
a fast heal, a fast drain, quicker reuse

add empower, msytic, you have a more powerful drain, better hp per heal, and you have a use for horror with better mattk and much faster cast speed,

hamstring-garbage don't think about using it,

if you want to slow, forget it, go for a complete stop

---schakle--melee skill 2nd highest base strength= good

shield stun-your bread and butter skill

Hate= you are a DA not a paladin, a paladin's hate is to protect his party, a DA's hate is to protect his panther.

Dark Panther=your ace up the sleeve. Keep him protected at all times as this is your biggest income of damage

Panther's weaknesses are= are all high damaged ranged classes, gladiator using beast weakness, these will be the hardest to protect from


everyone else, you hate hate to keep their attention, you have shield stun-best stun in the freakin game keep them immoble, you have shackle, keep them from running.

also shield stun, that is where you can start your combos

as you know all stuns break faster with inflicted melee damage

but magic is different

you can stun+heal
stun+drain
stun+horror+shackle
stun+shackle+UD+temporary beat down chaining root and stun to keep your target close enough to whack away while basically near invincible.

A combo that I like

shackle + Bow

it is an archers dream to be able to root and shoot from a distance

Only tanks and Overlords can attain this dream right

Dryad root is a joke

however this doesn't work agaisn't those with Nightmare anything on.

Nonetheless having a bow on your person (on your shotcut bar) is a very nice thing

Now with CT2 you have a battle mode Vanguard

You can Vanguard+ panther=lots of damage

this is only good vs close ranged enemies, long range enemies will eat you and your panther for lunch as you have no ranged protection.

However agains't close range, you hate and you and your panther kill them as quickly as possible.

Like a vanguard equip i have are +10kesh kesh and tallum heavy. its a common gladiator setup and it works nicely especially with help from your panther. You turn into a beast however like i said, you turn into easy prey for nukers, archers, anyone who can kite you basically.


TIP never send your panther out ahead of you, it is a glass cannon, without you there it will get 1-3shotted, unless your fighting like...a tank or a dwarf. People believe its a good way of chasing those who are running, NO 8/10 chances are they are trying to isolate you from your panther so they can put a huge dent in your attack power. ALWAYS keep your panther at your side. Keep your panthers actions on your shortcut bar, if anything /pet attack and /stop

Also if you can, let your panther have buffs, and have defensive buffs, greater shield>greater might. You want it to deal damage, but you want it alive more so because it hits hard w/ or w/o buffs increasing its attack.

As a tank your weakness is Nukers, your Big daddy master is a Necromancer, Necromancers own you, you are meddling in the dark arts, they control the dark arts, they will eat you for lunch. You are a string with your needle attached, they are a rocket launcher protected by a decayed yet tough brick wall.

but yea nukers are the scissors your paper, the rock to your scissors, the paper to your rock.

the mdef doesn't matter, Nukers are killed by burst damage, that isn't you sorry.

Your are better agaisn't daggers and archers and are w/e with warrior types.

a known fact to tanks, the fact that you get the least benefit to soul shots will put you at a disadvantage to warrior types. which is why you must be a smart player to win, you use soul shots and blessed spirit shots, melee and magic use them both. use them wisely. but remember you arent a soulbreaker so don't get cocky with the magic.

but basically when it comes down to it, its you who determines how good you are at playing a tank. so HAVE FUN WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

do you have any pvp fraps?