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Old 05-31-2009, 08:17 PM   #21
DrakkosIV
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Default Re: Auction House

Auction houses benefit buyers--not sellers. Sorry, that's just the way they are typically set up in these games.

The lower prices and anti-free market features benefit EBAYERS who don't have to pay as much and who can find the things they want faster.

There is nothing in a typical AH to benefit any seller--except the u-know-who's that have 20 million of a material to sell.

Little wonder the idea continues to come up. There are **** few of us left actually trying to sell things!

I'm resigned to two facts, eventually the cheaters in this game will prevail on this point and we'll get a stupid auction house, and secondly that NCSoft will implement it in the worst possible manner and have it set up to shaft the few remaining legit players.

Blah--who even cares anymore? 9 of 10 players in the game couldn't earn honest adena if you put a gun to their head. Bring on the "cheaters-house" I suppose.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: Auction House

i like how someone put it "go green" and again like how someone visualizes having to watch thier wallet by walking through a midevil market.

personally im all for a AH all the pirates can still be pirates the idiots that sell things for nothing can do as they please and it would be much more attractive for new players.

soaring u can still sell things at insane prices but now u dont have to be logged in all the time. you can still mail and pm people and bargain and even annonymously bid on stuff... everyone else can just port around freely not having lag spikes.

i mean add in AH and leave the option to stay up and in shop for those who like to shout and haggle and i think will be a happy and free world where we will have many private shops up still but not over flooded as now people can log out and sell. either way i dont see anything changing so all those old l2 players who are screaming at your screen.... chill... u know better than i its taken them how many chronicles to even get a flying ship which you can see in a c1 poster or dinosaurs. how they've added skills changed skills or even solved the bot problem...

i say AH is good suggestion and +1 to all the creative minds who want to better the game we love.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:42 AM   #23
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Default Re: Auction House

Quote:
Originally Posted by populus View Post
undercutting is part of an economy....
it's not like you don't see it now anyway, people undercut each other *all* the time
Well, AH players can't undercut. However, they can inflate the prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by populus View Post
the point of even having an auction house is to increase the supply of goods since more than 50% of all legit players do not or cannot setup sell shops overnight
AHs don't increase the overall supply of goods. They do increase supply of goods on the particular market segment convenient to ebayers (the one that you call "open market"), while depriving of supply the other markets (in-clan sharing, buyshops, WTB shouts...).

However, even the increase of supply on the "open market" will be here only if price manipulations don't happen. And price manipulations are easier for AH model.

And "open market" is not the main market in the clan-based economy of L2. That's why I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for AHs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by populus View Post
What people are suggestion isn't a REPLACEMENT of the current store system, but an ADDITION.
However, it would be enough to hurt those who set up crystal buyshops to craft their shots or who depends on clan-loaned items to level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by populus View Post
and the point of undercutting isn't to screw *you* personally, it's because they can afford to sell at that price so they do it inorder to gain more customers.
The point of undercutting is shifting the items faster. It's actually the market niche for small market players; big players don't undercut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by populus View Post
If you cannot adjust to that kind of market strategy, they you'll just lose out.
Which basically means that if you don't ebay and don't have enough adena to manipulate auction market prices, this market is not for you.

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Old 06-01-2009, 03:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: Auction House

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Originally Posted by Spudnik View Post
if people can't be bothered to search using the /findprivatestore EXISTING commands, WHY ON EARTH would we give them an auction house?

recently i have sold a number of Orihalcum and adamantine nearly 50% overpriced. cause people are ALREADY too lazy to search!!!! this particular thread is evidence to support me.

an auction house is NOT going to make things cheaper. it is NOT going to make people bot less. it is NOT going to be beneficial to a new player looking for items. it will drive people away like crazy. why? a number of factors: 1. people wont be able to move items for profit; i mean buying things cheap and selling them high. youd have to have a CORNERED market to do that, with no forseable ready supply. in a game like Lineage2 where supply is incredibly fast you simply will not be able to corner any market for profit be that weaponry or materials or enchant scrolls, etc. 2. while it would benefit people who want to turn off their computers at night, IF you made any sales overnight it would not amount to much. by reason of my point #1. you just cannot corner a market. any profit you could make would be at a cap. there would be no way to make 25% more, only make LESS. why less? because supply is through the roof. because the person who has the most, will not sell the most.

i'd also wager it would cause people to develop a new 3rd party software specifically to search for lowest price stuff and to set automatic undercut values.

GL with your Fail house. terrible idea.

nobody gets into a bidding war over things in WOW, they wont get into a bidding war in Lineage2. not even for in-demand items like lvl 13's or S80 full pieces. if you wont take MY money, i'll leave it to the next guy, who will pay more, and laugh at him when i find another vendor and pay less. this is the thinking behind an auction house - a buyers market.

newsflash: Lineage2 is a seller's merket. prices are open to interpretation, not fixed by demand, open to haggle.

haggling is an art form, lost in lineage2 due to extreme botting, but still there. when was the last time someone haggled YOU in wow? when was the last time YOU offered less gold for something in wow?
This. This is what I was trying to get at.

Lineage II is not like WoW as well, which I think a lot of people don't get. I'm not saying that an Auction house is always a terrible thing, in WoW it works out well because it is hardly a player driven economy. The only things that are really sold there are materials, consumables (flasks, food buffs) and the occasional BoE items. Not to mention everything in WoW is significantly smaller. The main things on the market tend to sell either as single items (elixers and flasks) where as others tend to sell in a stack of 20 (food buffs, materials).

In Lineage II there is no such thing as this, and things are sold in upwards of 10's of thousands. Sure, it might benefit the buyer -- in the short run. However the cost of that is that as a low level player it would be even more difficult to make money, due to the fact that you pretty much would need to be well represented in order to keep up with the market. Good luck trying to peddle a little bit of shots or something on an Ah when there are millions of others on there -- and are getting put back up faster than they sell.


So in the long run an AH is a terrible terrible idea for this game. Agreed.



PS: like someone else said, NO ONE ever ******* bids on items in WoW. It is a waste of time, and people are very time driven. You aren't going to get caught up in "intense" bidding wars, you're just going to hit the buy now button. (And if you don't, someone will).
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:05 AM   #25
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Default Re: Auction House

I played an MMO last year and into this year with a VERY substantial auction house. It is a central feature of that game platform.
It was horrible.

Small # sales basically could not occur--unless you were willing to SELL your 10 items for next to nothing. Because let's be honest here for a second, who has the opportunity to take a lower price? The guy with 10,000 of something or the guy with 10 of them?

So small volume (read: legit) players have to basically give their stuff away on non-existent margins.

It's a GREAT feature for those ebaying their gold. Those players will never actually make or sell anything in Lineage 2 anyway. They don't care if an item is 5m or 8m--as long as they get it really, really fast. Who will be able to sell our pretend 8m adena item for 5m? Oh yeah--the "players" (cough:cough) who have hundreds of the pretend item.

As I said above, eventually the cheating whimps will win this argument and the morons at NCSoft in Korea will provide an Auction House. The day they do, one of the neatest (and most difficult) features of L2 will die. THAT day cheating and cutting corners will get NCSoft's official, final, and overwhelming endorsement.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: Auction House

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakkosIV View Post
Small # sales basically could not occur--unless you were willing to SELL your 10 items for next to nothing. Because let's be honest here for a second, who has the opportunity to take a lower price? The guy with 10,000 of something or the guy with 10 of them?

So small volume (read: legit) players have to basically give their stuff away on non-existent margins.
I find it amazing that players who oh-so-much want an AH don't understand this.

They think they will put up their 150 bone and 3 draconic shafts and "compete" with the "player" selling 44k bone and 380 shafts....

It's basic economics people: the stronger player will kick the lowbie sellers out of the market. And although you will find anything to buy easily, how are you going to make adena? By selling a drac bow for 500k profit?

It is a similar mechanism with the small grocery shops being cornered by the big supermarkets. Do you think the small ones flourish or they are getting extinct?
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:53 AM   #27
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Default Re: Auction House

Well, other than Auction House, can we consider something like Consignment????

The player who won’t able to keep the computer online, they can consign the item that they want to sell to the NPC store.

There will be a limit for the consignment slot for each NPC to accept consignment. Castle owner can set the limit, and also there is a limit set from NC (Let say 5 slots for each NPC when start, each time the castle owner can keep the castle from the siege, one more slot added to each NPC)

Also, there will be a limit for Quantity per each item consigned (100?)…

There also a time limit for each consignment setup (6 hours???)

There will be a setup fee (Castle owner setup) to the sellers when they setup the consignment.

The item that sold from consignment will be tax.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Auction House

Quote:
Originally Posted by garlai View Post
Well, other than Auction House, can we consider something like Consignment????

The player who won’t able to keep the computer online, they can consign the item that they want to sell to the NPC store.

There will be a limit for the consignment slot for each NPC to accept consignment. Castle owner can set the limit, and also there is a limit set from NC (Let say 5 slots for each NPC when start, each time the castle owner can keep the castle from the siege, one more slot added to each NPC)

Also, there will be a limit for Quantity per each item consigned (100?)…

There also a time limit for each consignment setup (6 hours???)

There will be a setup fee (Castle owner setup) to the sellers when they setup the consignment.

The item that sold from consignment will be tax.
a better idea, but still not properly conceived...

lets say i set up to sell my stuff on consignment... now lets say someone with the EXACT SAME item set his item up on consignment... do we both have to set identical prices? is the taxation a flat fee or a percent of sale price? or is it paid at time of listing? pay at buyout?

the issue i'd have with selling like this would be mass flooding. i mean players that take 9000 slots with 1 item each slot (like 1 leather per slot), but you have covered that with the 5 slots per player clause.

not bad, getting warmer.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: Auction House

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudnik View Post
a better idea, but still not properly conceived...

lets say i set up to sell my stuff on consignment... now lets say someone with the EXACT SAME item set his item up on consignment... do we both have to set identical prices? is the taxation a flat fee or a percent of sale price? or is it paid at time of listing? pay at buyout?

the issue i'd have with selling like this would be mass flooding. i mean players that take 9000 slots with 1 item each slot (like 1 leather per slot), but you have covered that with the 5 slots per player clause.

not bad, getting warmer.
I want to make it clear first, each NPC store only can accept 5 consignments when start, not 5 slots per player.

If 2 players setup the same item on consignment, no need to set identical prices (that is how market work).

When setup the consignment, there will be a flat rate to be charged, no matter that item being sold or not, call “Consignment setup fee”.

Once the item being sold, a percent of sale price being charge as well (Base on the current castle tax rate).

I am now bandaging my idea ^^

There will be a limit to the player setup consignment each time (2 may be?) I mean no more the 2 consignment items setup each time...
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:24 PM   #30
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Default Re: Auction House

As a creative director myself. I was thinking of this the other day. But what l2 brings great to the game the option to have your store up in a town your items get added to a database live. A auction will even cause more congestion most likely and make giran less populated. etc, I in some ways love the current system but i wish there was a more efficient way or searching for items seeing prices etc.

So heres the solution.

What if you make a store in Giran, than there was a search function command for listing all the items on the store's in each town. Of course in open areas etc there would be no search function. So only in town's.

Reasons to do it.

It would also lead too more competitive pricing. Price wars etc, would it be good for the game? I think so for the most part but its all about the execution. If its done poorly it will have a negative impact.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:24 PM   #31
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Default Re: Auction House

Many people are agains auction because it would ruin sell shop things. However sell shops are bad because you've to leave your PC turned on.


HERE is the *****ing soliution which was asked for years but still....
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Auction House

1 no vote for auction houses.

1 yes vote for offline shops. Seriously, why don't we have those yet?
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Auction House

im not asking for a auction house you must of not read my post, and just posted on topic. Look at my suggestion with enhanced search function for a town? Instead of search by just stores name. It doesnt search by stores contents.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Auction House

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Originally Posted by Flexstah View Post
It would also lead too more competitive pricing. Price wars etc, would it be good for the game? I think so for the most part but its all about the execution. If its done poorly it will have a negative impact.
That is the point, Flex. "Competitive Pricing" is only good for BUYERS. How does a seller benefit from your "price wars"--which LOWER sale prices?

The "players" with the most stuff to sell in this game are not real, legit players. If they were you're idea might be implemented across a level playing field.
Those with the most 'stuff' to sell get their stuff automatically and in massive amounts! In price wars they ALWAYS win over the little guy (again, read: legit player).

There is already a substantial advantage to volume (bot) sellers. Allowing small sellers to select price, volume, and above all--location, gives them 'some' means of making choices to maximize their profit AGAINST bot sellers.

Auction houses and central sell points remove at least location, and in many ways volume and price from selling equations--and slant every advantage to the bot seller.
As a CONSUMER you will get cheaper prices. For those of us who market in order to raise legitimate adena, we're screwed.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:10 PM   #35
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Default Re: Auction House

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakkosIV View Post
That is the point, Flex. "Competitive Pricing" is only good for BUYERS. How does a seller benefit from your "price wars"--which LOWER sale prices?

The "players" with the most stuff to sell in this game are not real, legit players. If they were you're idea might be implemented across a level playing field.
Those with the most 'stuff' to sell get their stuff automatically and in massive amounts! In price wars they ALWAYS win over the little guy (again, read: legit player).

There is already a substantial advantage to volume (bot) sellers. Allowing small sellers to select price, volume, and above all--location, gives them 'some' means of making choices to maximize their profit AGAINST bot sellers.

Auction houses and central sell points remove at least location, and in many ways volume and price from selling equations--and slant every advantage to the bot seller.
As a CONSUMER you will get cheaper prices. For those of us who market in order to raise legitimate adena, we're screwed.
not exactly screwed, more along the lines of having to find a way to farm the stuff cheaper than we currently are. we will have to farm for free. in an auction house, we will need to have 100% profit or none at all.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Auction House

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Originally Posted by Spudnik View Post
not exactly screwed, more along the lines of having to find a way to farm the stuff cheaper than we currently are. we will have to farm for free. in an auction house, we will need to have 100% profit or none at all.
Meh-it amounts to the same thing imo, spuddy.
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Old 06-01-2009, 03:13 PM   #37
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Default Re: Auction House

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Originally Posted by Devilslicer View Post
i was wondering if it was possible to implement an auction house kinda of similar to the world of warcrafts. the reason i see this would help the game is because it would drop a lot of traffic on the server in towns where people just sit afk with there shops. it allows people to go through towns easily and you could sell your thigns whilst your offline. would make the game a lot better just a thought thats all :P
DEVs said they are not going to implement Auction houses.
Also goto: http://www.lineage2.com/news/chronicle1_10.html
Thats L2 idea of a Auction.

If anything they should have it setup like eve-onlines Buy and sell system. If you ever played eve-online you'd know what I mean.




This SYSTEM is far more sophisticated than a noobish WOW auction house and I LOL at you for even suggesting an idea of a WOW auction house -.-

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Old 06-01-2009, 09:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: Auction House

going to just make a legit thread on the enhance search feature. Has nothing to do with making a auction house.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:09 AM   #39
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Default Re: Auction House

Please add a Broker to the game of lineage 2 much like AION has setup right but also allow players to still use there private stores.
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:18 AM   #40
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Default Re: Auction House

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrakkosIV View Post
Auction houses benefit buyers--not sellers. Sorry, that's just the way they are typically set up in these games.

The lower prices and anti-free market features benefit EBAYERS who don't have to pay as much and who can find the things they want faster.

There is nothing in a typical AH to benefit any seller--except the u-know-who's that have 20 million of a material to sell.

Little wonder the idea continues to come up. There are **** few of us left actually trying to sell things!

I'm resigned to two facts, eventually the cheaters in this game will prevail on this point and we'll get a stupid auction house, and secondly that NCSoft will implement it in the worst possible manner and have it set up to shaft the few remaining legit players.

Blah--who even cares anymore? 9 of 10 players in the game couldn't earn honest adena if you put a gun to their head. Bring on the "cheaters-house" I suppose.
I really don't understand why people continue to complain about an auction house or any other game feature or mechanics considering NC only recognizes your profit account to margin ration if you login from Japan proxy. Just IMO ....

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