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Old 02-23-2016, 06:03 PM   #1
PaulC
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Default Augment. Worth it or not?

Is this good for othell?

http://s13.postimg.org/ml9qv30br/image.png
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:20 PM   #2
golemka
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

i saw you a couple days ago with +8 set and +10 bloody or dark shaper

are you trolling us?
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
Every skill you make is already a critical hit.
Now think again, is it a good augment?
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by golemka View Post
i saw you a couple days ago with +8 set and +10 bloody or dark shaper

are you trolling us?
I dont have +10 but anyway, i ask because i read somewhere (i dont remember where) that p skill critical rate is different than p critical rate.
And yes, every skill is critical but if u hit for example 10 times something with the same skill, some criticals are stronger than the others.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

You just answered your own question.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
I dont have +10 but anyway, i ask because i read somewhere (i dont remember where) that p skill critical rate is different than p critical rate.
And yes, every skill is critical but if u hit for example 10 times something with the same skill, some criticals are stronger than the others.
I have heard that myth many times (also believed it), but never actually seen it in action.
When I was playing othell, every skill dmg that was "out of the ordinary" was with critical increase or heart breaker buff on.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

http://boards.lineage2.com/showpost....38&postcount=1
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by golemka View Post
You just answered your own question.
If i answered my question, is a good augment for an othell..

http://s21.postimg.org/rw00ties7/image.png

Here is a small self test. ~30k difference between criticals from bloodstab.
Self buffed only. I noticed with healer buffs only that the difference between criticals in bigger than 30k.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
If i answered my question, is a good augment for an othell..



Here is a small self test. ~30k difference between criticals from bloodstab.
156k low
185k high
lets say mid = 170

With 10% damage variance..
170*1.1 = 187k max dmg
170*0.9 = 153k lowest dmg.


Just like normal hits, skill hits have a damage variance, 10% sounds about right.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Znipoo View Post
156k low
185k high
lets say mid = 170

With 10% damage variance..
170*1.1 = 187k max dmg
170*0.9 = 153k lowest dmg.


Just like normal hits, skill hits have a damage variance, 10% sounds about right.
Yes this is true.. Thanks for ur usefull answer m8..

So also +10% p skill critical rate for 2nd SA is crap?
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
Yes this is true.. Thanks for ur usefull answer m8..

So also +10% p skill critical rate for 2nd SA is crap?
For othell? yup it is, as said, no point to increase skill crit rate as its already 100%
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Znipoo View Post
For othell? yup it is, as said, no point to increase skill crit rate as its already 100%
obviously i suppose to say that..

U didnt get yet that is not a limit of 100% on anything?) Try out this theory sometime

>>2 PaulC

u got increased damage with healers buff because its death whisper effect in it?? or no? or maybe yes?... and u cant determine correct stab inflict because of: crt dmg always jumps, and the more crt dmg boost u got on - its more afflicted on crt dmg jump. And where is a "skill CRITICAL hit"?) all i see in ur shot table - normal hits (which yyyyyy, stabs are crits, ok), but NONE of them are CRITICAL



ps: if u have a wind rider with dex build - this augment is pretty good, with str-build it sucks and useless
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

If there is a 100% chance I will succeed something, indeed having 200% chance of succeeding isnt going to make a difference, as I am going to succeed either way, or do you argue that fact?


Damage variation is not influenced by buffs or items and thus it does not change.
Obviously if you are buffed vs unbuffed the damage you make will be higher thus it might give you the illusion of "higher variaton", but nevertheless that number does not exceed, say 10%.

If normal damage is 10 million damage, you could make between 9-11 million damage.
If normal damage is 10 thousand damage, you could make between 9-11 thousand damage.

See where I am going with this?


Please show me a screenshot that says "Critical SKILL hit"
As said, my dualclass was othell before I changed it to wynn, I've heard about this "1x, 2x, 3x skill critical damage"
"Sometimes you make 3x higher critical hits with skills!"

So I tested it, not much but nonetheless I kept an eye out whenever I was playing it during instances.
Guess what?
It only changed when you had critical increase and heart breaker on, and ofc the chain blow with target on bleed.

Critical increase = +100% critical damage
Heart breaker = 30% dmg from behind
Chain blow when target has bleed active = 20% higher damage

There is your "2x, 3x" skill critical hits.


Edit: I could by all means be wrong, but as said, everything ive seen personally adds up to this.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
If i answered my question, is a good augment for an othell..

http://s21.postimg.org/rw00ties7/image.png

Here is a small self test. ~30k difference between criticals from bloodstab.
Self buffed only. I noticed with healer buffs only that the difference between criticals in bigger than 30k.

There was no skill critical there.
Everytime you use blow skill it will always say Critical Hit! but that dosent mean the skill actually crited.
Make more blows and you know when it cr****. In that case, self buffed anddoing 170k the critical would do around 350k~

For sure this agment is a keeper. All you wouldwant dex and skill critical chance.
Thats more then a lvl 8 SA.
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Old 02-24-2016, 10:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

****, I can't believe that after 10+ years people STILL don't know how dagger skills work.....

As Shimeji said, you did not get a skill crit in that sample. Just to clarify, there are TWO type of dagger skill crits. There is the double duration/instant reuse type AND the double damage stab type.

Additionally, ALL dagger stabs are criticals BUT, only some are SKILL criticals. Dagger skills are unique in this respect and it is the reason why buffs such as Guitar Melody and the old Death Whisper increase their damage. The same holds true for crit damage jewels (baium/aq/lindy, etc.).

Is it a keeper? Depends on how much adena you have I guess. There a few better out there but it is good.
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
****, I can't believe that after 10+ years people STILL don't know how dagger skills work.....
I dont know what to say, I literally just used 250-300 stabs (bloodstab, chainblow) on an othell with 80 DEX, not a single one of those stabs was "2x" higher than any other.
And 100 of those stabs was with Mortal strike buff (+30% vital spot attack rate).
On top of that, I've checked my stabs over 500+ times just to compare damage and such, and I've never seen a critical strike the way you're describing?

As said, I would love for someone to prove me wrong and show me a picture that clearly show 2x damage, bonus point for "SKILL critical hit" in the text.
Until then, I'm still going with my "hearsay" theory.
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

the double duration/insta refresh has nothing to do with criticals, it is skill mastery.... (some ppl mistake this with skills criticals or just call it skill critical but is not...)

about the blows, yeah their damage are considered normal crits, and they also can crit (*2 dmg) but..... at least in the old days not all blows could do this...

iirc only backstab and dual blow could crit pre-GOD idk what blows can do this now...
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:20 AM   #18
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingel View Post
the double duration/insta refresh has nothing to do with criticals, it is skill mastery.... (some ppl mistake this with skills criticals or just call it skill critical but is not...)

about the blows, yeah their damage are considered normal crits, and they also can crit (*2 dmg) but..... at least in the old days not all blows could do this...

iirc only backstab and dual blow could crit pre-GOD idk what blows can do this now...
Come on man, are you serious.....

So, you have never said (or heard) "I crit my clones" or "I crit my hide?"

Yeah, technically it isn't a "Skill Critical" but 99% of the people refer it in that way.

And yes I am aware that Skill Mastery is based on STR and Skill Crits are based on DEX.
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

actually nope i never said that (well im not a dagger/archer so my skills mastery procs is not really often, same as skills crit, but yeah i have read a lot of that "crit clones" or self-buffs)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Znipoo View Post
As said, I would love for someone to prove me wrong and show me a picture that clearly show 2x damage, bonus point for "SKILL critical hit" in the text.
Until then, I'm still going with my "hearsay" theory.

BTW Znipoo i don't know how you dont get any skill crit, it took me like 5 minuts log and do some skills....
http://s8.postimg.org/apkdwwbw5/crit_blows.jpg

and... it looks like all blows can crit now... at least that says the description... (the screen was bloodstab)
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:17 AM   #20
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Default Re: Augment. Worth it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodah View Post
****, I can't believe that after 10+ years people STILL don't know how dagger skills work.....

As Shimeji said, you did not get a skill crit in that sample. Just to clarify, there are TWO type of dagger skill crits. There is the double duration/instant reuse type AND the double damage stab type.

Additionally, ALL dagger stabs are criticals BUT, only some are SKILL criticals. Dagger skills are unique in this respect and it is the reason why buffs such as Guitar Melody and the old Death Whisper increase their damage. The same holds true for crit damage jewels (baium/aq/lindy, etc.).

Is it a keeper? Depends on how much adena you have I guess. There a few better out there but it is good.
One of the best example that some people with gear are stuck at L2store.

For the owner of this thread,
If you wont feel the difference, try to get these only from high/top stones:
P. Skill crt. damage
P. crt. damage
PVP damage
PVE damage
Stun attack rate + %

There is a Russian list of augments.
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